Ive seen a little of it, but I got tired pretty quick. Im a big "gun nut" so movies like these make me angry. I could be wrong, but Moore is not against gun ownership is he? Why not look at the 99.9999999999% of legal gun owners who are normal, not crazy nuts who go out and shoot road signs on the weekend. I love to shoot guns, it is a fun pastime, I can't see why anybody with some sense would be against it. Guns may be outlawed, but as they say the outlaws will always have guns, and this is very true.

Good film, like Scrotum said, makes you think.

The Film Sucked!!
Now, before I get flamed for my response, let me give my reasons why it sucked.

1. The film blamed everyone in the American Society EXCEPT the gunmen. He didn't even think of that. I'll just blame, the NRA, K-Mart, Video Games, Heavy Metal, the U.S. Armed Forces but those 2 nut jobs that actually did the shooting, I won't blame them.

2. I really enjoyed the part where he flamed the U.S. Military, especially the AF. He goes to the AF Academy in Co. Springs and says "The B52 that is on display there is a plaque that glorifies the bombing of North Vietnamese Civilians."
The operation that he is talking about is Linebacker II. What he fails to mention is in fact that the Operation targeted Key military targets, Radio stations which at that time was broadcasting Propaganda. Railroads, which is responsible for troop movements, Airfields, and powerplants. Thanks to that Operation, it helped bring American Involvement in Vietnam to an end thus, saving more lives in the process.

3. Flaming the NRA, saying they had no right in Denver, they weren't welcomed, and basically waving them off as a bunch of gun nuts. Just b/c Heston was using his rights of Free Speech, (which I might add the director was using) But his "Ambush" Of Heston wasn't very well played out. Heston did a good job defending the NRA, and the rights of all Americans. (My hats off to Heston for that) In the end, I think the director looked like a moron even though he played it off like he was the righteous crusader who was right.

4. Even though it pains me to say this, I think he was right with the KMart issue of selling 9mm Ammo. I agree with that its kind of crazy for Kmart and Wal Mart to be selling that type of ammmo. Let people go the the gun store (which there are plenty of)

In Conclusion, I think the movie could have been better if the director wasn't so hell bent on making everyone else look bad besides the gunmen. In the end, it wasn't Charlton Heston, the U.S. Military, the Rock Stars, and the Video Game designers that walked in that school and lit the place up. It was acouple of kids who in their right mind should not have had those weapons, and if their parents were doing their jobs right maybe it wouldn't have happened. I for one was brought up that whatever actions I do I'm responsible for nobody else but me. The Director just doesn't get that.

Ok, I'm done now I need a beer. beer:

[quote="Big Jake":0bdd7]The Film Sucked!!
Now, before I get flamed for my response, let me give my reasons why it sucked.

1. The film blamed everyone in the American Society EXCEPT the gunmen. He didn't even think of that. I'll just blame, the NRA, K-Mart, Video Games, Heavy Metal, the U.S. Armed Forces but those 2 nut jobs that actually did the shooting, I won't blame them.

2. I really enjoyed the part where he flamed the U.S. Military, especially the AF. He goes to the AF Academy in Co. Springs and says "The B52 that is on display there is a plaque that glorifies the bombing of North Vietnamese Civilians."
The operation that he is talking about is Linebacker II. What he fails to mention is in fact that the Operation targeted Key military targets, Radio stations which at that time was broadcasting Propaganda. Railroads, which is responsible for troop movements, Airfields, and powerplants. Thanks to that Operation, it helped bring American Involvement in Vietnam to an end thus, saving more lives in the process.

3. Flaming the NRA, saying they had no right in Denver, they weren't welcomed, and basically waving them off as a bunch of gun nuts. Just b/c Heston was using his rights of Free Speech, (which I might add the director was using) But his "Ambush" Of Heston wasn't very well played out. Heston did a good job defending the NRA, and the rights of all Americans. (My hats off to Heston for that) In the end, I think the director looked like a moron even though he played it off like he was the righteous crusader who was right.

4. Even though it pains me to say this, I think he was right with the KMart issue of selling 9mm Ammo. I agree with that its kind of crazy for Kmart and Wal Mart to be selling that type of ammmo. Let people go the the gun store (which there are plenty of)

In Conclusion, I think the movie could have been better if the director wasn't so hell bent on making everyone else look bad besides the gunmen. In the end, it wasn't Charlton Heston, the U.S. Military, the Rock Stars, and the Video Game designers that walked in that school and lit the place up. It was acouple of kids who in their right mind should not have had those weapons, and if their parents were doing their jobs right maybe it wouldn't have happened. I for one was brought up that whatever actions I do I'm responsible for nobody else but me. The Director just doesn't get that.

Ok, I'm done now I need a beer. beer:[/quote:0bdd7] "he" is that fat guy with the beard that got booed at the oscars or somehting, right? michal somefin'

Just for the sole fact that you typed "somefin'", I'm not gonna tell you his last name. rolleyes:

lol, man cmon plzzzzzzz

Moore is his last name

I have stayed away based on my belief that it will annoy the mess out of me.

Is it worth watching for someone that is solidly pro-gun, but just as solidly pro-commonsense?

Only worth it if you can stand Moores preening and sensationalization. Some good bits, like going to the K-Mart, but the parts with the ambush of Dick Clark, and Heston to me were just crap.

[quote="Duke_of_Ray":c268e]Ive seen a little of it, but I got tired pretty quick. Im a big "gun nut" so movies like these make me angry. I could be wrong, but Moore is not against gun ownership is he? Why not look at the 99.9999999999% of legal gun owners who are normal, not crazy nuts who go out and shoot road signs on the weekend. I love to shoot guns, it is a fun pastime, I can't see why anybody with some sense would be against it. Guns may be outlawed, but as they say the outlaws will always have guns, and this is very true.[/quote:c268e]

I don't think he was taking a poke at owning a gun at all. Just at the people that show no common-sense when dealing with them, i.e, Bank, Crazy Guy who stuck gun to his head, K-Mart....


[quote="Big Jake":c268e]1. The film blamed everyone in the American Society EXCEPT the gunmen. He didn't even think of that. I'll just blame, the NRA, K-Mart, Video Games, Heavy Metal, the U.S. Armed Forces but those 2 nut jobs that actually did the shooting, I won't blame them.[/quote:c268e]

Hmmmm - Where did he blame Rock Stars or Video Games? What I saw, was Moore just explaining that they were the typical scapegoats. I didn't ever hear him say it was their fault.

I think you need to watch it again, and actually concentrate.

[quote="Big Jake":c268e] 3. Flaming the NRA, saying they had no right in Denver, they weren't welcomed, and basically waving them off as a bunch of gun nuts. Just b/c Heston was using his rights of Free Speech, (which I might add the director was using) But his "Ambush" Of Heston wasn't very well played out. Heston did a good job defending the NRA, and the rights of all Americans. (My hats off to Heston for that) In the end, I think the director looked like a moron even though he played it off like he was the righteous crusader who was right.[/quote:c268e]

I'm sick of people using Free Speech as an excuse to go around saying what ever the fuck they want...

Yeah, we all have free speech, sure. Let's examine who exercises their right to free speech:

KKK
Neo-Nazis
Black Panthers
Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson

.....Just because they exercise Free Speech, doesn't automatically make what they're saying appropriate.

When Charlton Heston went into those towns after those two gun tradgedies, he was acting inappropriately (In my view). He should of at least waited a few days or weeks for people to mourn their dead. It's just insensitive going their so prematurely.

That's like saying if a gay kid was murdered in cold blood just because he was gay, it is alright for a Gay-Hate group to go to the town where he was murdered and impose their anti-gay messages on the mourning townspeople. It's fucking sick.

Everyone has free speech - But sadly, not everyone has common-sense.

nice post tripper. there may be hope for you yet.

[quote:79025]When Charlton Heston went into those towns after those two gun tradgedies, he was acting inappropriately (In my view). He should of at least waited a few days or weeks for people to mourn their dead. It's just insensitive going their so prematurely.[/quote:79025]

Yea but he didnt know about it when he got there. He found out about this after they left and I seem to remember it being on the day AFTER.

[quote=Tripper]I don't think he was taking a poke at owning a gun at all. Just at the people that show no common-sense when dealing with them, i.e, Bank, Crazy Guy who stuck gun to his head, K-Mart....


[quote="Big Jake":04e88]1. The film blamed everyone in the American Society EXCEPT the gunmen. He didn't even think of that. I'll just blame, the NRA, K-Mart, Video Games, Heavy Metal, the U.S. Armed Forces but those 2 nut jobs that actually did the shooting, I won't blame them.[/quote:04e88]

Hmmmm - Where did he blame Rock Stars or Video Games? What I saw, was Moore just explaining that they were the typical scapegoats. I didn't ever hear him say it was their fault.

I think you need to watch it again, and actually concentrate.

[quote="Big Jake":04e88] 3. Flaming the NRA, saying they had no right in Denver, they weren't welcomed, and basically waving them off as a bunch of gun nuts. Just b/c Heston was using his rights of Free Speech, (which I might add the director was using) But his "Ambush" Of Heston wasn't very well played out. Heston did a good job defending the NRA, and the rights of all Americans. (My hats off to Heston for that) In the end, I think the director looked like a moron even though he played it off like he was the righteous crusader who was right.[/quote:04e88]

I'm sick of people using Free Speech as an excuse to go around saying what ever the fuck they want...

Yeah, we all have free speech, sure. Let's examine who exercises their right to free speech:

KKK
Neo-Nazis
Black Panthers
Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson

.....Just because they exercise Free Speech, doesn't automatically make what they're saying appropriate.

When Charlton Heston went into those towns after those two gun tradgedies, he was acting inappropriately (In my view). He should of at least waited a few days or weeks for people to mourn their dead. It's just insensitive going their so prematurely.

That's like saying if a gay kid was murdered in cold blood just because he was gay, it is alright for a Gay-Hate group to go to the town where he was murdered and impose their anti-gay messages on the mourning townspeople. It's fucking sick.

Everyone has free speech - But sadly, not everyone has common-sense.[/quote:04e88]


Tripper:
"Hmmmm - Where did he blame Rock Stars or Video Games? What I saw, was Moore just explaining that they were the typical scapegoats. I didn't ever hear him say it was their fault.

I think you need to watch it again, and actually concentrate."

He may have not come out and say it was their fault, just like he didn't come out and say that it was the U.S. Militarys fault. Even though he actually went in depth to see why they were the scape goats however, the way he portrayed them it was as though they were somehow responsible. By saying that their violent music may be 1 of the reasons why there is so much violence in America.
I think maybe you need to concentrate more as what is being said.

Tripper:
"Yeah, we all have free speech, sure. Let's examine who exercises their right to free speech:

KKK
Neo-Nazis
Black Panthers
Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson

.....Just because they exercise Free Speech, doesn't automatically make what they're saying appropriate."

Your list is pretty good except your missing 1 important group. THE PEOPLE.
Our Constitution clearly begins, "We THE PEOPLE"
Granted that since they do have the right of free speech doesn't make what they are saying appropriate who are you to say what is? Every Sunday in London, isn't there a park that were if anybody has something to say they stand up on little latters, soap Boxes etc and say it? Whether or not you agree with what they are saying thats your right. But its not your right to decided what is right to say and what isn't.

Tripper:
"When Charlton Heston went into those towns after those two gun tradgedies, he was acting inappropriately (In my view). He should of at least waited a few days or weeks for people to mourn their dead. It's just insensitive going their so prematurely."

Ok, so waiting a few weeks/months would have done what? Nothing. No matter when he would have came it would have been the same result. Fact, the NRA wasn't responsible for what happened. This is what gets me, people are blaming everyone but the 2 kids that went in there and lit the place up. Oh, the NRA is responsible just b/c they promote gun ownership. Thats Bull!! The NRA didn't put the guns in those 2 kids hands. The NRA didn't give the kids the Ammo needed for those guns. The NRA certainly didn't make the plan for the kids to enter Columbine and start shooting the place up. So how is it insensitive for the NRA to have their LEGAL Rally? The Movie also edited to hell the speach that Heston made making him look like a nut. What was the first scene that you saw of the Rally? Heston holding his musket above his head saying "From my cold dead hands"
Yeah thats playing them off fair....

Tripper:
"That's like saying if a gay kid was murdered in cold blood just because he was gay, it is alright for a Gay-Hate group to go to the town where he was murdered and impose their anti-gay messages on the mourning townspeople. It's fucking sick."

Thats a different issue. Not exactly correct of the one we are talking about. The NRA doesn't promote gun violence. They promote your Constitution Right to Bear Arms. Does that mean violence? No. Concentrate more on that.

Heston didnt go to Columbine, he went to another city where a young black boy brought his uncles gun to school and shot a white girl (or black girl). This was in Moores hometown.

[quote="Big Jake":2c77e]
Tripper:
"Hmmmm - Where did he blame Rock Stars or Video Games? What I saw, was Moore just explaining that they were the typical scapegoats. I didn't ever hear him say it was their fault.

I think you need to watch it again, and actually concentrate."

He may have not come out and say it was their fault, just like he didn't come out and say that it was the U.S. Militarys fault. Even though he actually went in depth to see why they were the scape goats however, the way he portrayed them it was as though they were somehow responsible. By saying that their violent music may be 1 of the reasons why there is so much violence in America.
I think maybe you need to concentrate more as what is being said.
[/quote:2c77e]

Care to elaborate on "how he portrayed them"?
Because, as it is, I think that's pure bullshit.

[quote="Big Jake":2c77e]Tripper:
"Yeah, we all have free speech, sure. Let's examine who exercises their right to free speech:

KKK
Neo-Nazis
Black Panthers
Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson

.....Just because they exercise Free Speech, doesn't automatically make what they're saying appropriate."

Your list is pretty good except your missing 1 important group. THE PEOPLE.
Our Constitution clearly begins, "We THE PEOPLE"
Granted that since they do have the right of free speech doesn't make what they are saying appropriate who are you to say what is? Every Sunday in London, isn't there a park that were if anybody has something to say they stand up on little latters, soap Boxes etc and say it? Whether or not you agree with what they are saying thats your right. But its not your right to decided what is right to say and what isn't.
[/quote:2c77e]

WTF?

There is a difference between agreeing/disagreeing with a point being pushed, and, disagreeing/agreeing with whether or not it is insensitive to clearly state your points in certain contexts.

What if your mother was randomly shot dead, and the day after someone decided to come over to your house and say that "The bitch deserved it."

Would you appreciate that act of 'Free Speech?' I think not.

See? Sure people have free speech, but unless you want to come off as a total asshole, and hurt other people while doing so, you have to show some sensitivity when using it.

It fucking pisses me off when people do that fucking "Free Speech" shit, when its absolutely inappropriate, acting as if they're totally and morally right in doing so, because it is a human right. annoy:

....Remember, this is just generally talking about the 'I can say what I want when I want because of free speech,' debate. Not focused on BFC.