[quote="Sgt>Stackem":cecc7]
because if you take a peice of chewing gum they either chop your hand off or just kill you, thats a deturant (sp?)[/quote:cecc7]arguing with republicans is like arguing to a brick wall.... sleeping:

[quote="Alex D":5ae3c](almost) x2. He was an idelogist, old school with Castro, firmly defender of communism and marxism. You (probably) don't want to live in a country that this guy had helped to create.[/quote:5ae3c]

He actually didn't agree very much with communism, or capitalism. He was 'officially' welcome to become a cuban citizen by castro. He resigned from 2nd in command.... something like secertary of the treasurey.. to go help the the bolivian people. The people didn't support Che in bolivia, thats why it failed.

tripper ur wrong too.

[quote=Machette]arguing with republicans is like arguing to a brick wall.... sleeping:[/quote:50e56] hake: sleeping: calmdown:

biggrin:

[quote="newt.":3cc3a][quote="Alex D":3cc3a](almost) x2. He was an idelogist, old school with Castro, firmly defender of communism and marxism. You (probably) don't want to live in a country that this guy had helped to create.[/quote:3cc3a]

He actually didn't agree very much with communism, or capitalism. He was 'officially' welcome to become a cuban citizen by castro. He resigned from 2nd in command.... something like secertary of the treasurey.. to go help the the bolivian people. The people didn't support Che in bolivia, thats why it failed.

tripper ur wrong too.[/quote:3cc3a]

Hmmm, No. Quoted from [url=http://slate.msn.com/id/2107100/:3cc3a]Slate's article:[/url:3cc3a]
...
The cult of Ernesto Che Guevara is an episode in the moral callousness of our time. Che was a totalitarian. He achieved nothing but disaster. Many of the early leaders of the Cuban Revolution favored a democratic or democratic-socialist direction for the new Cuba. But Che was a mainstay of the hardline pro-Soviet faction, and his faction won. Che presided over the Cuban Revolution's first firing squads. He founded Cuba's "labor camp" system—the system that was eventually employed to incarcerate gays, dissidents, and AIDS victims. To get himself killed, and to get a lot of other people killed, was central to Che's imagination. In the famous essay in which he issued his ringing call for "two, three, many Vietnams," he also spoke about martyrdom and managed to compose a number of chilling phrases: "Hatred as an element of struggle; unbending hatred for the enemy, which pushes a human being beyond his natural limitations, making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine. This is what our soldiers must become …"— and so on. He was killed in Bolivia in 1967, leading a guerrilla movement that had failed to enlist a single Bolivian peasant. And yet he succeeded in inspiring tens of thousands of middle class Latin-Americans to exit the universities and organize guerrilla insurgencies of their own. And these insurgencies likewise accomplished nothing, except to bring about the death of hundreds of thousands, and to set back the cause of Latin-American democracy—a tragedy on the hugest scale.

The present-day cult of Che—the T-shirts, the bars, the posters—has succeeded in obscuring this dreadful reality. And Walter Salles' movie The Motorcycle Diaries will now take its place at the heart of this cult. It has already received a standing ovation at Robert Redford's Sundance film festival (Redford is the executive producer of The Motorcycle Diaries) and glowing admiration in the press. Che was an enemy of freedom, and yet he has been erected into a symbol of freedom. He helped establish an unjust social system in Cuba and has been erected into a symbol of social justice. He stood for the ancient rigidities of Latin-American thought, in a Marxist-Leninist version, and he has been celebrated as a free-thinker and a rebel. And thus it is in Salles' Motorcycle Diaries.
...
And that is just one example about the [url=http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-14,GGLD:en&q=the+real+che+guevara:3cc3a]real Che.[/url:3cc3a] In short, imagine an Islamic Extremist terrorist, but instead of the Islam religion put the hardcore soviet marxism-communism in its place. So Tripper was right in that sense.

"we choose, ourselves, which side of the fight we are on."
the_finger:

[quote="newt.":793cc][quote="Alex D":793cc](almost) x2. He was an idelogist, old school with Castro, firmly defender of communism and marxism. You (probably) don't want to live in a country that this guy had helped to create.[/quote:793cc]

He actually didn't agree very much with communism, or capitalism. He was 'officially' welcome to become a cuban citizen by castro. He resigned from 2nd in command.... something like secertary of the treasurey.. to go help the the bolivian people. The people didn't support Che in bolivia, thats why it failed.

tripper ur wrong too.[/quote:793cc]

You're the one who is wrong.

[quote=Tripper][quote="newt.":a2ac0]He actually didn't agree very much with communism, or capitalism. He was 'officially' welcome to become a cuban citizen by castro. He resigned from 2nd in command.... something like secertary of the treasurey.. to go help the the bolivian people. The people didn't support Che in bolivia, thats why it failed.

tripper ur wrong too.[/quote:a2ac0]

You're the one who is wrong.[/quote:a2ac0]

[img]http://www.groundforce1.com/forums/images/avatars/481863249424f6c807b3ad.jpg[/img]

stop...talk to the hand

































oOo:

He is like dead man. For a long time too.

Killer link man, +1.

I personally had never even heard of the guy nor seen his picture until a year or two ago, and exploring the internet. The guy's also a popular sig topic, btw, lol.

Political motivations and US policy towards world economics aside, I feel the guy is, as most view it, a misguided idol. But this is part of the wonders of American, and world pop culture.
Dispite the "crimes" and motivations of Che himself, he can still be idolized as a revolutionist. Similar pop culture ideals:

Charles Manson: Envisioned and promoted as a living idealist and symbol of both revolution and Anti-Commercialism. (Actually a mad-man who convinced people he was jesus.)
The Cross: Used the world over as a symbol of faith and holiness. (Actually a horrible method of Roman torture and death reserved for the most vial of criminals.)
The Swaztika: Seen the world over as a symbol of Nazism and severe racism. (Actually a ancient symbol. It was used in China, India, and ancient greece to mean everything from the number 10,000 to Buddhism.)

Personally,
So long as there is an understanding of the historical reality, I see no real harm in sybolizing a person, place, or thing to represent a single persons opinions on a subject, perticularly in teen-agers and young adults.

...I agree....I think it's mostly the younger people who see the symbolism, but don't understand the reality. - What's on the surface is "cooler" than the truth.

Absolutley. Couldn't agree more.

[quote:0cecc]He is singled out from other revolutionaries by many young people in the West because he rejected a comfortable background to fight for global revolution. And when he gained power in Cuba, he gave up all the trappings of privilege and power in Cuba in order to return to the revolutionary battlefield and ultimately, to die.[/quote:0cecc]

Ya, he did some pretty gruesome things during the Cuban revolution, and after it (aka his prison totures and excuetions of informants, But He is an idol for he beleifs and his struggle. He may have had some twisted beleifs and happenings along the way, but thats not why his face is on your shirt. REMEMBER, you don't have to be a hero to be a legend. Don't mix those 2 up.

+1 SH

the green berets help track and kill him ..