It is considered a battle because the Japs did fire Flak guns and had fighters in the air during the bombing. The Enola Gay didn't just go off by itself and bomb the city, there were tons more planes to bomb the city after the BIG one fell. So, the bombers and figters, and flak did engage in a battle. Battles do not only take place on the ground my friend.

True, true. The Japanese did have fighters in the air. They just couldn't get to it in time, and what would they have done anyway? Not much...

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34th SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division Landstorm Nederland

"Meine Ehre heißt Treue"

LOL! I could have swore you were European? Maybe I saw Austria? http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/smile.gif

My apologies, good sir. http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

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34th SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division Landstorm Nederland

"Meine Ehre heißt Treue"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolfshook:

Well, first off, the close combat with entrenching tools, and anything else they could get ahold of, was during the entire Eastern Front war, not just Stalingrad. The Eastern Front was brutal, it wasn't just one city, where the fighting suddenly turned bestial.

Again, we see a European who thinks all of us learned about ww2, from SPR. Give us some credit, man, your sounding just a tad high handed.

I've seen Stalingrad...quite a few times, in the original German, with subtitles. Again, Europeans aren't the only ones who can watch movies with subtitles.

Calm the attitude down, though, and I might like you. However, insulting all Americans won't make you many friends. I happen to know a lot of stupid and intelligent people...who come from all over the world.

Enemy at the Gates, was ok...nothing spectacular. A little too much romance, and not enough down and dirty, gritty realism.

IMO

BTW, I'm American. http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/wink.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You, my friend, must not be very good at Geography, Incase you didn't realise, I'll educate you...Have a look at that big old Map of the world and have a good look at the southern hemisphere...see Australia, all the way down there, European you say!, Well, I'm suppose the next thing you'll be telling me is
BallisticWookie is from Asia.

I'm calmed down, you appear to be a well educated (at least in Military History...less so in geography!) and you sound quite nice so I'll leave it there, just one thing though, what did you mean by "Again, another European" or did you mean "Australian" ; )

-Ciao

I found the Soviet death toll at Stalingrad. It's at least 1,000,000. Dead bodies are still being found by farmers.

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http://www.matrixturkey.homestead.co...gmohSMALL3.jpg

LOL
Farmers..

uh huh huh, did you hear that Beavis ? huh huh

YEA YEA mm heh heh heh
FIRE FIRE !
TP FOR MY BUNGHOLE !

I'm sorry if I have offended anyone on this forum, my statement was un-neccessary. I didn't mean it as a general categorisation of ALL Americans, just a few, and also alot of other people I know. Again I apologise for my actions. Although I believe that research should be undertaken before people make judgements not just from what they see on film...

I think you’re right in any case Solidus, (no matter what you are) but it depends on how you’re counting.

Take a look.
The historians speak of the Battle of Stalingrad as the most bloody/devastating battle in WWII, because 600 000 to 700 000 Germans and Russians were killed during the battle. That’s more than in Normandy. On the other hand, it lasted for almost 270 days, and was really several battles. Based on those numbers I have roughly figured out that an average of2 000 to 2 500 (including civilians) were killed each day.

Let’s see what we got in France. On the first day of the invasion of Normandy, approx. 5 000 allied men were killed. 3 964 of them were Americans (airborne included) and 335 were Canadians. That’s a lot more than in Stalingrad and we haven’t counted the Germans yet. Gen. Rommel reported that his losses were approx. 250 000 men during the month of June. How many casualties? I don’t know.

I agree Solidus, that we can discuss the soldier’s conditions as well. As you compared starving against mortars etc, but I think it’s more difficult so I will leave that to somebody else.

Anyway, based on the figures above, I will put my vote on the Invasion of Normandy.

Note: Bear in mind I haven’t got any reliable numbers from the Pacific War.

(I will act like I haven’t read your last reply Iwo Jima

i bet the japanese would've helped out little bit but not much.