2015 said,and I quote,"MoH is not ment to be a run and gun game,but to be played by using tactics and strategy"

Now would somebody please explain to me the above because I must not understand plain english.

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Shoot Low Boys
They're Ridin Ponies

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WileyP:
2015 said,and I quote,"MoH is not ment to be a run and gun game,but to be played by using tactics and strategy"

Now would somebody please explain to me the above because I must not understand plain english.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>it means MoH takes good teamwork to succeed. people like siggi dont understand that base MOH employs this principle very well.

MP omaha for example takes an extreme amount of teamwork for the allies to succeed. It requires the use of every type of gun(save maybe the sniper rifle, allies dont need to snipe and shouldnt snipe on omaha) to accomplish the goal.

in CPR everyone could just use the MG or SMG and they would be fine in almost every situation in the game.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madrebel:
same thing applies for the normal game.

also, why are all the CPR servers(that ive played on) non friendly fire. where is the realism there?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because FF servers usually have spiteful little jerks who want to drive everybody away from the server by team-killing everyone they see. This is the main reason why the only FF servers out there are password-protected.

I agree with Siggi about the CPR mod. I've been on both the giving and receiving end of the "half-clip turnaround", and to me it's cheap Q3 arcade action. I play the CPR mod because you have to be more careful with where you move, and where you look, simply due to the fact the weapons can kill you sooner than with the default MP settings. I've been killed by newbies while playing the CPR mod but that was only because of my carelessness. Some people's egos can't handle getting killed by a beginner, and thus I believe is part of the reason why many refuse to play on servers using the CPR mod.

With the CPR mod you can pretty much kiss circle-strafing goodbye, and the run-and-gun Q3/UT carryovers just don't enjoy having to play a game where everything you do has to be done with more care.

But, I'll play as a sniper on either CPR or Default. I won't matter to me when I use this rifle because opponents die just the same either way. 1-shot kills as they cross the street.

Thanks Reb,but without a private server,how in the hell do you promote teamwork?

Every map i've tried,the troops are off in all directions and don't seem to have a rhyme or reason to thier actions,other than shoot it if it moves.

So far as FF goes,if it's on, there is always the yo-yos that think it's so funny to blast everything. Hell they don't care about you.

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Shoot Low Boys
They're Ridin Ponies

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by First Man Down:
The damage levels are there for a reason and they're carefully set by professionals. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not arguing with your salient points, but why do so many people become offended if anyone expresses a like or desire for a game that has a different play and/or damage scheme from every other game. It appears that a great deal of people are offended if someone says that they like playing a game that differs in any way from an exacting formula.

Christ, it's almost as if enjoying a game with different variables, damage levels, tactics, etc. makes you a damn pariah.

"If it isn't just like all the games Iv'e gotten good at already, it just sucks and anyone who enjoys it is a moron."

Does that about sum up the prevalent attitude of these postings? It seems to.

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Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. Oh, and a cheese Danish, too.

[This message has been edited by CorpusDan (edited January 24, 2002).]

God...there is certainly a lot of arrogant snots on this board. Hey so called multiplay virtuosos...machismo left with the 70's.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In CPR the tactically smart player dominates...rush in like a quak-head and you die. That means, as in real life, the un-skilled spray-and-pray soldier can get kills too.
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally agree. I tend to rush too often and more often than not... I die. And boy do I hate to wait the remainder of the 5 minutes to go at it again. That too is my motivation, try to not die and not have to wait to play again.

I wish they would make a game that would have the tactical expertise of Ghost Recon and the playability of MOHAA. Ghost Recon has to many factors (and keys to remember) and MOHAA not enough reality such as limping, crawling, blood, ect...

IMO, just add some limping, crawling, one shot almost any where kills and blood to the actual MOHAA and it would be that much more cool to play (without all those keys to remember).

Also IMO, death count is as important as kills no?

Fantasically, you've all missed my point - again! Please, if you're really interested, read my posts carefully. The lack of response leads me to believe that I'm on to something...


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WileyP:
"MoH is not ment to be a run and gun game,but to be played by using tactics and strategy"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is the single biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. If those guys designed the game to be played by using tactics and strategy why did they design maps that don't facilitate this? Sounds like lip-service to me.

I appreciate the player's desire for increased realism, but it will only work when two conditions are met:

1. The game needs to be originally designed so that realism hinders "Rambo-style" hero tactics from individuals by putting a penalty on being shot. For example, limping, crawling, etc. (See Operation Flashpoint). Weapons obviously need to deliever appropriate damage and maps need to be created so that they represent real environments. None of that is represented in MOHAA or any mod for it.

2. There needs to be a conscious effort on the behalf of the participants to adhere to squad tactics and team co-operation. This is impossible on a public server. You will always have a "Rambo-type" with the intent to score as many frags as possible.

THEREFORE, realism cannot exist in MOHAA MP as it stands now.

Still, CPR sounds suspect. I imagine if those who champion CPR were as good in regular play, I doubt they'd care about altering the experience to begin with. It sounds to be that you're frustrated with being killed.

OK, you want realism, but to what end? Isn't the object of playing a game to win? By either completing the objective or killing the most players you win? Well, I can accomplish both, on CPR and regular. I prefer regular because it's more of a challenge.

Perhaps I'm the one missing the essential point, but to me by playing CPR "you're getting your realism, but those players with skill are losing their learned advantage and poor players are given a boost in their ability."

You're trying to alter a game in a way that it shouldn't be. You can't have one aspect real to suit your skill, but not another. It's this reason why many of us believe the CPR is less challenging. By seeing regular-style players as simple run and gun types, you're demeaning our ability. Many lash back and call CPR players "newbies." I don't have to liken them to such undesirable terms, but I honestly do think that CPR requires far less skill to accomplish either an objective or obtain the most frags.

Read carefully the points I've made. I'm interested in having someone properly debate the issues I've raised.

Originally posted by Madrebel:

"you understand absolutely nothing about the q3 network paradigm.

ALL GAMES ARE NOT EQUAL. sim games handle networking diffrently than UT/Q3/Tribes/etc.

ive tried explaining it before but your ignorce overcomes any desire of yours to learn something new."

Oh, I get it Madrebel...how dim of me. The amazing Q3 engine...so when a client's packets totally stop departing and arriving the MoH code on the server telepathically computes where the client's model is going, registers hits and transmits those calculations back to the client who sees himself die on his screen. The server also takes over the client's moving model when no packets are arriving and computes it's course of travel for the lucky player on the server-side so that he can continue to shoot it.

Alternatively, when packets from the client arrive late, or not at all, the model server-side stutters...no packet, freeze...gets packet, moves...called stutter. Otherwise known as a difficult target. Mmm...yes, I'm completely ignorant about lag. Snort. Carry on mate, make a bigger and bigger twat of yourself.

Madrebel's loser whines:

"There was bad lag...that's why I kept dying...
I don't like CPR, it's no skill BS."

(Translation: In non-CPR my sniper-rifle still kills with one shot but I have the non-CPR magic resistance to bullets). Oh ya, I can see why you like non-CPR, eh? Mr One-Shot-One-Kill, but god forbid your opponents can kill you with one shot from their SMG/MG etc etc, eh?

Personally, if I stick my head out to snipe somebody, and his buddy gets an SMG round into my chest I'm more than happy to die. I should get a one-shot kill, and not have to worry about the guy's buddy? How nice for the non-CPR snipers...how bogus for every other poor bugger. And probably why everyone is so totally sick to death of sniper-rifles in non-CPR games.

Oh...prediction coming in...Madrebel howls loudly..."I never use the sniper-rifle! I am god of all weps, I rule, I own everyone!!!" ROTFLMAO.

If you were any more transparent you'd need a fucking flak-jacket to stop birds flying thru your twat ass.

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SSDivisionWikingSGW

http://www.btinternet.com/~p.webber1...hclanlogo1.gif

[This message has been edited by SS.SGW~Siggi (edited January 24, 2002).]

Ok First-Man-Down, let's get to the bones of this...needing more bullets to kill your opponent requires more skill, correct?

So person 'A' sneaks up on person 'B' and opens fire. Person 'A' starts his bee-dance and fires back. Suddenly his awesome skill kicks in (circle-strafing etc) and it's person 'B' (the guy with the skill to catch person 'A' napping) who dies...defeated by some twat Q3 bullshit move called 'Circle-Strafing'. I'm amazed they don't teach it in training..."When confronted by an enemy at close quarters commence running around in circles. If you get a chance, hop like a little bunny-rabbit too."

Here's the reality...non-CPR stops no-skill Q3 pricks dying from the bullets of a skilled tactician and gives them the chance to employ bullshit arcade moves to avoid the killing round AND fire back at the poor bugger who thought he was playing with adults.

Nothing fills me with more contempt online than seeing some muppet bunny-hopping across the terrain as bullets rain down on him. Or seeing two jerks running around each other, guns blazing and totally oblivious to the fact they look like complete morons.

Can't think tactically? Got no idea how to out-think your opponent? No problemo...just learn how to play the PC keyboard like Motzart on Special-K and make like a spastic with 40,000 volts up his arse. Yeah, that's real quality gaming. Or it was when DOOM was cutting edge.

I don't see CPR players whining about non-CPR servers...but I sure see plenty of non-CPR players squealing like spoiled brats. Want the whole sand-pit for yourselves, eh? And if you can't have it...stampy-stampy go sulk in the corner and cry "Foul play!"

Quake is ooooooooold!!! Get over it, forget the BS 'skillz' you learned with it and get real. MoH is already simplistic enough without you whining about the few servers that attempt to make it more challenging.

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SSDivisionWikingSGW

http://www.btinternet.com/~p.webber1...hclanlogo1.gif

[This message has been edited by SS.SGW~Siggi (edited January 24, 2002).]

i "brag" because my skills as a player were attacked.

some claim i "dont have those kinds of skills"

come play me if you want to see "my kind of skills". youll find im alot more formidable than you think. And no, im not "the best in the world" there are many better than i which is why i play. wtf would be the point if noone could beat you? that would be very boring.

as for attacking my intellect/spelling blah blah whatever.

i type really fast, i dont care to take the time to proof read because well, i post from work alot. i dont need to take even more time to go through and check what i wrote for any mispellings. frankly i dont care.

in real life i dont mispell words when i talk so wtf does it matter.

point still stands.

if its easier to kill someone, all variables aside. a less skilled player has a better chance of taking out a more skilled player.

hence CPR = newbie friendly mod = shallow learning curve = gets boring sooner.

adapt, overcome, out think your opponent. Ive seen it a million times, tonight even. I would do a certain thing a few times, if it was effective the other team would recognize that, "ouch the left flank hurts lets defend it". they would gaurd and own me for one round. i say hey i need to switch up and do something different.

its the live chess game so to speak. you have your different pieces(rifles, sniper rifles, rockets, etc..) that all do a certain thing.

lets stick with that analogy. CPR has done the equivelent of changing every peice in MOH to the queen in chess. pawns have their place, rooks have their place. Dont mess with the game balance. adapt and overcome.

i used to get really annoyed at nade rushers. "fuck man nades need to be limited cause i hate dying early in the round". guess what, whip out a rocket and watch the nade rushers stop nade rushing. it will happen ive seen it happen many times.

but by all means, continue playing your dumbed down version of the game. I wont miss you for a second.

siggi i mostly use rifles because i feel they are more difficult. rifles does include snipers rifles. I prefer standard rifles over all other weapons though. But will switch my tactics if my team is getting overrun.

come play siggi if you ahve the balls.

Have the BALLS??? Excuse me, BALLS for a bloody computer game? Since when have balls been required? Maybe if your peers consist of a gaggle of spotty-faced 12 year-olds hanging on the corner your game abilities might count for something...otherwise one might not give a monkey's toss.

What you are clearly failing to understand Madrebel is that if I rose to your 'challenge' it would indicate that I take you seriously. At the risk of hurting your feelings I have to inform you that I take you about as seriously as I would a Bugs Bunny cartoon. I play MoH for fun, not to try and prove to myself that I matter. I got real life accomplishments that more than adequately cover that issue.

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SSDivisionWikingSGW

http://www.btinternet.com/~p.webber1...hclanlogo1.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Oh, I get it Madrebel...how dim of me. The amazing Q3 engine...so when a client's packets totally stop departing and arriving the MoH code on the server telepathically computes where the client's model is going, registers hits and transmits those calculations back to the client who sees himself die on his screen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>no if packets stop being sent/received the 'client' freezes on his local machine and freezes in place(sometimes still running in place if that was his last action). That player CAN still be killed however because the server still registers it as a 'live' entity until that 'live entity' times out or the server receives a disconnect session packet. Do you know anything about TCP/IP? Seriously im asking so i know how far to dumb this down for you. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The server also takes over the client's moving model when no packets are arriving and computes it's course of travel for the lucky player on the server-side so that he can continue to shoot it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>no the server doesnt do this at all. what the q3 server does is track where the players is according to the data it receives from the player. if it stops receiving packets due to
A. timeout
B. packet loss

that client will appear to "freeze" and "warp" all over your screen. why? because the server "loses" track of that player. The client moves lets say in a straight line ok. the client moves 10 game feeet lets say. ok the server receives the ackets for the first 3 feet fine, something happens on the internet and one of the routers between the client and the server craps out a few packets. the server now think s hey the client has only moved 3 feet so it tells the other clients that this guy is moving in this direction and was last seen here. but wait oh look now i got the last packets and now the client is actually 7 feet in front of where he last was.

hence the "warping"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Alternatively, when packets from the client arrive late, or not at all, the model server-side stutters...no packet, freeze...gets packet, moves...called stutter. Otherwise known as a difficult target. Mmm...yes, I'm completely ignorant about lag<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>yes you are

sim games handle it differently. they dont use a client/server model. they use a peer to peer model. the biggest difference is when you click fire in peer to peer you instantly fire where as in a client server model you fire when the server receives the packet.

client/server = nothing happens without the server knowing

peer/peer = updates are sent between the peers.

both have their strengths and weaknesses.

since youre so versed on internet protocols would you care to enlighten me on the type of protocol all internet games use? and no tcp/ip isnt exactly the correct answer.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SS.SGW~Siggi:
Have the BALLS??? Excuse me, BALLS for a bloody computer game? Since when have balls been required? Maybe if your peers consist of a gaggle of spotty-faced 12 year-olds hanging on the corner your game abilities might count for something...otherwise one might not give a monkey's toss.

What you are clearly failing to understand Madrebel is that if I rose to your 'challenge' it would indicate that I take you seriously. At the risk of hurting your feelings I have to inform you that I take you about as seriously as I would a Bugs Bunny cartoon. I play MoH for fun, not to try and prove to myself that I matter. I got real life accomplishments that more than adequately cover that issue.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
haha no you dont. you seem to think any "real world" things you have done account for something. you play games too nerd. the difference is you play them badly. oh btw, everyone plays games for fun euro trash boi.

p.s. heh dont assume im young dont assume i dont have a life.

Maybe I'm typing in Chinese, Siggi, cos you missed the point again. Not in it's entirety, though, I'll at least give you credit for that.

It's not needing more bullets to kill your opponent that requires more skill, it's being able to deliver more bullets without having some bloke deliver more bullets first. There's no chance to react with CPR. Captain Newbie just shot me from the otherside of the map and killed me with two shots. Only if I had my peripheral vision to alert me to his movement. Wait a minute! Is that why close-counter combat is promoted in MP games! Is that why we learn to strafe and circle! Could it be because it's a videogame and that's the only way to foster a skills curve! Am I onto something???

But what about a sniper rifle, you say? Well, if you're retarded enough to stand in one position for long enough, you deserve to get a bullet in the head and die with one shot. But many of you know that the sniper rifle is extremely hard to master (in terms of frags) and nearly impossible to use effectively at close range. Those interested in frags - and most players are - will choose to utilize a different weapon, the SMG, perhaps.

I agree with you on one thing; jumping like a madman possessed is pathetic, but the other skills you scoffed at are universally accepted as the traits of a good player. You hint at lacking these skills, so I'm going to go with my pal, madrebel, here, and assume you actually do lack these skills that are considered by the vast majority as what separates the good and the newbie, or shitty player.

First of all, sneaking up one player 'A' requires little real ability, especially since while playing a videogame, I'm unable to hear an opponent come from behind, or take advantage of my peripheral vision - all the tools needed to give player 'B' and opportunity to respond to his attacker - just like in real life. Can you incoporate that into your sacred realism mod?

Now, if you sneak up on player 'B' and are unable to kill him, but (and here's the kicker) he is able to turn around, avoid your attack, and then drop your sorry ass - well, you've been "owned."

So, if I'm correct, your desire for CPR stems not from realism, but from your frustration with being unable to manipulate a keyboard and mouse in such a manner than enables you to be competitive. So, in essence, CPR allows you to win, which you like, but regular play doesn't allow you to win, which you don't like.

OK, I get it now.

By the way, I've never even tried a Quake game.

[This message has been edited by First Man Down (edited January 24, 2002).]

The more of this stuff that I read, the more I realize that there are a whole shit load of whiners out there; interrupted occasionally by a few decent people. Come on guys, just play the game and get better at it. Don't get pissed because there are people out there who are better, faster, and smarter than you, and then come in here and post pissy replies to a bad experience. Sheesh, practice makes perfect.

"that client will appear to "freeze" and "warp" all over your screen. why? because the server "loses" track of that player. The client moves lets say in a straight line ok. the client moves 10 game feeet lets say. ok the server receives the ackets for the first 3 feet fine, something happens on the internet and one of the routers between the client and the server craps out a few packets. the server now think s hey the client has only moved 3 feet so it tells the other clients that this guy is moving in this direction and was last seen here. but wait oh look now i got the last packets and now the client is actually 7 feet in front of where he last was."

Well...finally out of your own mouth so to speak. The client lags, making it hard for the server-side player to hit him, as I experienced yesterday. Er...so what are you arguing about? Trying to sneakily alter your position on the subject? Lol. Like I said...lag affects BOTH client and server. Nice to see you finally admit it, even if in such an obliviously ironic manner.

"Play them badly." Now here is the big give-away to your state of mind. You state that I play badly, without having any possible idea of how I actually play. Classic school-yard hyperbole. Do you have NO idea how you make yourself sound with that lame kind of crap? No, obviously not or you wouldn't do it. Here's a heads-up for you...you sound like a pre-adolescent dick.

Protocols...generally TCP/IP over the internet, IPX/SPX over LAN. Or how about NetBEUI or SIP??? Lol. I see you are eager to add pedantry to your list of failings. Like I give a shite about protocols so long as my games work properly across internet/LAN...and they do, cos I know enough about the nuts and bolts to ensure it.

Hey...these posts are like non-CPR...you keep taking rounds but you refuse to die. Lol. Bugger off and come back when you know how to shoot with something better than blanks. http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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SSDivisionWikingSGW

http://www.btinternet.com/~p.webber1...hclanlogo1.gif

like i said you know nothing about what youre talking about. tcp/ip isnt the correct answer. no amount of "buzzwords" will save you here wanker.

lol ipx/spx over the lan youre funny. very few people actually run ipx/spx anymore. its a dated, noisy, slow protocol.

netbui isnt a transmission protocol either ace.

and no i am not changing my stance.

if you are the server and have a 0 ping you have a massive advantage over everyone else.

nothing happens unless the server says so.

meaning i you are the server, you hit fire you fire right then and there.

also the warping is caused by your dumb ass playing and trying too act as the server at the same time.

come play on my server mr. pro CPR man.

chicken shit.

your technical expertise is so far below mine i would have to have my frontal lobe removed to dumb it down low enough for you.

Siggi,

I'll take the absense of a repsonse as an indication that I was right. But if you have to sit there and imagine something up, please, by all means take the time. I'll be more than happy to respond once you've composed a rebuttle. And leave the childish dialogue out of it. I'm interested in substance, mate.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by First Man Down:
Siggi,

I'll take the absense of a repsonse as an indication that I was right. But if you have to sit there and imagine something up, please, by all means take the time. I'll be more than happy to respond once you've composed a rebuttle. And leave the childish dialogue out of it. I'm interested in substance, mate.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
yeah leave the childish dialogue to me!

haha its so amusing during an otherwise boring day.

First-Man-Down, whether you believe it or not I am quite competent with the circle-strafe and associated BS. Though I refuse to bunny-hop. And if too many players are dancing (Circle-Strafing) I leave the game. Not because I can't compete but because I consider it lame as hell and don't enjoy it. If it came to stats I'd guess I lose six out of ten Circle-Strafes because I don't practice it. Generally nobody gets close enough to me to make it worth learning. I only encounter it when I go around a corner and an opponent runs head-first into me.

Sniper rifle...oh boy, I became a MoH master-sniper after about eight hours on Omaha yesterday on various servers. I hate to strafe-dodge, but doing it in the bunker was a slaughter-fest. It's the only way to counter the beach-snipers and the practice I got was invaluable. I got so bored popping people that I went on the MG's...I got wasted plenty but it was FUN.

I've never counted myself as a particularly outstanding FPS player, but MoH would make a one-legged donkey look good. Like I've said before, once you've 'mastered' MoH you're on a plateau that goes no higher. If mastery of MoH was a ceiling, 90% of it's players are standing bent.

Anyone can kill in MoH...the real 'skill' is displayed by those who do it AND survive bouts consistently. But they're easy to defeat when whole teams play like twats and rush willy-nilly...everyone dies then and 'skill' takes a back seat. Killing five opponents with a shotgun rush, then dying yourself, is nothing more than quake BS for me. I aim to kill and live, and if every other player is trying to do the same you have the perfect situation for a top quality game.

If you really want to test your gaming skills I suggest you get into sims. Three-dimensional combat, in virtual machines of widely differing capabilities, with a physics-based engine...it don't get no harder than that on a PC. Madrebel...nah, I won't even go there. http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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SSDivisionWikingSGW

http://www.btinternet.com/~p.webber1...hclanlogo1.gif

in my personal opinion i say there's a adv and disadv in using current CPR mod now. the adv is your team can give better covering fire on close range. the disadvantage is when you use your rifle to shoot from far distance and able to kill enemy in one or two shots. CPR should make it less stronger over some distance. but then again IT'S JUST A GAME GUYS.. COME ON.. STOP HEATING EACH OTHER UP JUST BECAUSE OF a GAME?!? that's childish no matter who brings it...

that's it i'll never post a reply in this topic again...

some people just odnt understand that this is an internet forum. some people like myself like to flame cause its fun and my job is boring. so f off.

siggi is still a twat who knows nothing about how internet games work.

i do play sims some siggi. ww2online has a, IMO, very realistic flight model. As well as a very realistic infantry model. It has its problems yes but i excel at infantry in that game as well.

Plus i have a 6 to 1 ratio with the spitfire http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

if you want reality, GO PLAY A REALITY BASED GAME. MoH is NOT meant to be 100% realistic.

rouge spear ghost recon ww2online operation flash point etc... are those games. go play them and stop stinking up this board with your euro trash drivel.

Something I'd like to point out.

In no publicly (especially free) served online game will you ever, ever have spontanious teamwork.

You will hardly ever come across it. It happens if you begin to get to know someone, or you have a laugh with someone and agree to team up some.

But it rarely happens the whole team over without some kind of mass agreement.

If you are a good enough player, you can actually make others look to you and actually follow what you say.

But that is a rarer occurence than a room in Red-light Amsterdam not containing a pack of condoms...

At any rate... now the game is finally out and those who enjoy it will begin to play it we will see the emergence of clans.

There will be crap ones. Kiddie ones. There will also be the good ones, the elite ones.

Eventually we will have leagues, and competition.

That is where the more serious gamer will see the teamwork.

MoH is very well designed for the team-play aspects, and it will win you more games than any tactics seen on public servers.

That is what I am looking forward too.

CPR or no CPR there will be teamwork and stealth and all other realistic tactics of war that will be used.

Then we will see what this game is made of so far as objective play.

You can bet that whatever clan I play in will be playing both CPR and normal modes. I see CPR as less enjoyable, but I'll still play it to learn new things about staying alive.

Anyone who has already made a clan and set up a website ready to go can not tell me they aren't looking forward to that too.

If you hate what the game has to offer already, CPR or not, and all the possibilities the game offers for competitive teamplay then I suggest you stop playing it now.

It won't get any better for you.

Those who enjoy CPR, good for you. I actually have read your posts in this thread and some of the positive things that have been said about CPR have made me perhaps look at it a little differently.

That is what this board is for. I like discussions like these, minus the flames (<-- guilty as charged http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif ), it has certainly opened my eyes a little.

Medrebel, you have a lot of good points, as does First Man Down. You're right it makes no difference to the gameplay on public servers. It also does make killing easier.

I agree with Siggi and others that it also makes dying easier.

What this thread has done to me is perhaps give me a new challenge http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif I'm going to play some more CPR and see if I can overcome those as well http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

It's going to be around no matter what you say (unless the one you propose to design is better, of course) so unless you plan to never play a clan who only uses CPR (God, I wonder what rules they'll employ for that kind of thing) then you may have to forget some of your predjudices.

Put it this way. If CPR is so much easier to kill then it shouldn't be too hard to play when you are doing it competitively.

As for public CPR servers, though... well I see your points and agree with a lot of them, so I understand that you won't play on those.

It's your choice, you will always have that.

See you in the top division http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/wink.gif



[This message has been edited by Ydiss (edited January 24, 2002).]

Sorry FMS, I didn't know you considered a UBB to be a chat-room.

Well Madrebel, do please tell us what protocols YOU use for you MP gaming...you seem to have neglected that in your last post, you hole-digging chump. Technical expertise? Damn, I must have missed it when it shot out your big gob and rushed past my head at near light speed. Or maybe that was just the gusts of hot air you continue to guff, you inarticulate dunce.

And do tell me how you connect to your "dedicated server"...over a LAN per chance? Mmm...zero ping in that case. So cue the BS..."I run a server from location X and connect to it from location Z." Prove it. You talk so much garbage about everything else, you insecure dweeb, that nothing you say can be considered trust-worthy.

For entertainment value you score high. Anything else, you're nothing more than an embarrassing spectacle. Can't be bothered to "proof read" your posts? Shouldn't need to if you could get it right the first time. That's called self respect or pride...a bit like keeping oneself clean or dressing nicely. It's how you present yourself to the world...and if you can't be arsed to do it well, assuming you know how to in the first place, you're nothing more than a grubby slob. If your syntax, grammar and spelling are anything to go by I'd guess you shower/bath but once a week and smell like a dead rat that's just been pulled out of a corpse's arse.

You're a state...sort yourself out. http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

(Ooh...did I just own your sorry ass? Or was that the whole thread?)

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SSDivisionWikingSGW

http://www.btinternet.com/~p.webber1...hclanlogo1.gif

fine with you madrebel. i don't have any problem at all. my mistake for offending you.

im not going to make a mod anymore.

i realized its more fun to overcome the annoying tactics people use(nade spamming rocket spamming) by either beting them at their own game or just changing tactics.

there isnt a single weapon in base MoH that cant be overcome by an intelligent skilled player.

obviously siggi isnt counted in that group.

I play both CPR and non-CPR too Ydiss. Only difference between them is I play only the sniper rifle now in non-CPR...and feel guilty for it too. I don't like having a wonder weapon whilst other's SMG rounds etc are effectively bouncing off my armoured hide. But on the other side of that coin is the fact the sniper rifle sucks in close maps. I can pop out and do somebody with a rapid-fire wep in non-CPR fights, but it doesn't happen how I like it to happen...short burst and they're dead. I have to stand there like a plank whilst I put the obligatory half a clip into them and give every sniper in range a free shot at me. Or run around like a muppet as I fire and feel like I'm the best armed maypole dancer the world's ever seen.

I get more satisfaction from sneaking around for half an hour and killing one guy who values his virtual life than I do from running up a 100-kill session on quak mode. But that's just me. http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

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SSDivisionWikingSGW

http://www.btinternet.com/~p.webber1...hclanlogo1.gif

[This message has been edited by SS.SGW~Siggi (edited January 24, 2002).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madrebel:
lol obviously you havent played with me.

a person who has better aiming skill will totally dominate CPR why? because they can land 2 shots alot quicker easier than your average player.

and yes it does go both ways. since average players dont need to be as consitently acurate. they have a much better chance against more skilled players since they only have to hit them twice now instead of 4-6 times.

so therefor, CPR lowers the skill level across the board.

oh and it does nothing to change the gameplay, people still nade rush on CPR server, the Rocket launcher is still great for clearing a room and stopping a rush.

NOTHING has changed except now skilless lamers can actually kill me where as on a normal server they wouldnt have a snow flakes chance in hell.

Want quick kills? learn to hit the head. (hint the k98k is awsome for head shots)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What a load of codswallop. You, madrebel, can't stand being taken out by a skilled player who out-thinks you and gets the drop on you. Without CPR your failure to spot an enemy gives you a three or four bullet grace before you die...a chance to fire back.

When I out-think my opponent and get the drop on him I expect him to go down, not spin round and start firing back when he already has half a clip in his ass. That is arcade BS for me.

People that like to play non-CPR, no worries...I call it relaxed-realism and it's legitimate arcade fun for those who want a fun blast-em-up. Hard-core gamers like me like the realism factor at max. Madrebel, you better stay clear of CPR...sounds like you can't hack it mate.



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SSDivisionWikingSGW

http://www.btinternet.com/~p.webber1...hclanlogo1.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> In no publicly (especially free) served online game will you ever, ever have spontanious teamwork.

You will hardly ever come across it. It happens if you begin to get to know someone, or you have a laugh with someone and agree to team up some.

But it happens the whole team over without some kind of mass agreement.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you, Ydiss for finally seeing the issues I pointed out.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
First Man Down. You're right it makes no difference to the gameplay on public servers. It also does make killing easier. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, it does make a difference to gameplay - it just makes it easier for poor players to score frags. This would only be the opposite if all the players on the server agreed to adhere to teamwork and act in terms of squad dynamics.

And, as Ydiss correctly pointed out, this is not possible. We've been weened on a steady diet of strafe/circle/run-gun tactics and that's how nearly all players operate. This is how MP games have been designed. Who started it? Who knows? Will it evolve? Who knows?

I would like to see a game where you can become more involved in the situation, where you can communicate with teammates in an effective fashion, and employ team tactics and strategies. The entire point I was making is that you can't yet. The game doesn't exist. With the CPR mod, you've altered the game to the point where the weapon tactics are removed and now all players are given the same opportunity to kill and survive. Tactics to avoid fire are worthless, and thus negating universally accepted MP abilities, which all players make use of.

I know where you're coming from, Siggi, but when you alter one part of the game to suit realism, the other parts you leave alone remain suited for arcade play. You get a conflict. Do you catch my drift?

I hope you all realize where I'm coming from.

[This message has been edited by First Man Down (edited January 24, 2002).]

"in cpr you could take 2 MG rounds in the leg and die. that isnt very realistic. the only place on the leg that will kill you is that major artery."

Lol, the ignorance. http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Obviously never heard of hydrostatic shock. Go look it up greenboy...something you might have missed in your fave hollywood fantasies because they've never heard of it either.

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SSDivisionWikingSGW

http://www.btinternet.com/~p.webber1...hclanlogo1.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madrebel:

i do play sims some siggi. ww2online has a, IMO, very realistic flight model. As well as a very realistic infantry model. It has its problems yes but i excel at infantry in that game as well.

Plus i have a 6 to 1 ratio with the spitfire http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The words WWII online and realistic flight model do not go together. Obviously you have never played a real flight sim such as IL2 or F4 or Mig Alley or even the dreaded SDOE! WWII online is a big 'ol waste of time and money so have at it punk!

On another note, I must say you kids are entertaining, stupid, selfish, ignorant blowhards and most likely virgins but this board is good for a laugh during the day.

Thanks!

Let's see who will be the first to tell me to shut up or go away or something.

btw, Ive seen better flame wars in church!!

Siggi, I really think you should show these kids what real angst is. Remember some of the rants of old? (Shogun, B-17 II, SDOE) I say stop trying to reason with them and let 'em have it


Sorry, one more thing,
I might get back to this discussion until tommorrow so feel free to curse my rant all you want, it's just words on a screen!

Now SOD OFF the lot of ya!!


mu...er...landshark

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SS.SGW~Siggi:
I play both CPR and non-CPR too Ydiss. Only difference between them is I play only the sniper rifle now in non-CPR...and feel guilty for it too. I don't like having a wonder weapon whilst other's SMG rounds etc are effectively bouncing off my armoured hide. But on the other side of that coin is the fact the sniper rifle sucks in close maps. I can pop out and do somebody with a rapid-fire wep in non-CPR fights, but it doesn't happen how I like it to happen...short burst and they're dead. I have to stand there like a plank whilst I put the obligatory half a clip into them and give every sniper in range a free shot at me. Or run around like a muppet as I fire and feel like I'm the best armed maypole dancer the world's ever seen.

I get more satisfaction from sneaking around for half an hour and killing one guy who values his virtual life than I do from running up a 100-kill session on quak mode. But that's just me. http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
you are so stupid it actually hurts to read your drivel.

normal MoH takes maybe 6 shots to kill someone. I can usually kill in 3 shots with the M1 and 2 max with the mauser. SMG = 6 shots maybe, MG 4 shots should do. how is that "being armored" as you put it?

also to clear up your previous post.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Well Madrebel, do please tell us what protocols YOU use for you MP gaming...you seem to have neglected that in your last post, you hole-digging chump<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>this was intentional because i know you dont know wtf youre talking about.

ALL inernet games use the udp protocol. udp is connectionless and is one of the 3 major tcp/ip protocols can you name the other 2?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And do tell me how you connect to your "dedicated server"...over a LAN per chance? Mmm...zero ping in that case. So cue the BS..."I run a server from location X and connect to it from location Z." Prove it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>to be exact i host the dedicated server from a machine at work. it is directly connected to a extreme networks blackdiamond switch which is in turn connected to a ciso 3640 which is in turn connected to 2 sprint T1 lines. Both T1s are bonded together giving me effectively 3 megabits. How many channels in a T1 and why do T1s handle multiple connections better than dsl and cable? From there i connect to that DEDICATED server from my home 1meg/1meg sdsl line. I get pings of 20-50 from my house to my server at work. yes its a great ping but its not like actually being on the server since packet loss and such still applies to me.

and again i dont care about you or what you think of me you uptight euro piece of trash. i make enough money that i dont give a shit what others think about me either so f off.

my points still stand, you suck at MoH and you dont know shit about how games actually work in regards to the networking.

Actually, mudshark, I was once of the only voices of reason. I do hope you weren't refering to me. And, no, I'm not a virgin. Does that count for something?

Just having a bit of fun at the end of the day. Home now with a g&t in my hand so no worries!!

shark

go beat your wife alchy

Wow. This has been quite the "entertaining" read today. Personally, I think each and every one of you have a valid point.

Myself, I don't like the circle-jerk-straffe crap. When's the last time you saw something on the History channel, or in an encylopedia that referenced that shit? (Oops, I'm digressing already, this is a VIDEO-GAME, NOT REALITY.)

My point of view is in line with Ydiss in the respect that on a public server you will very rarely get teamwork. As a result, you just get this clusterf**k thing that we see now. (Nade spamming for the first 1:30 and mindless bum-rush tactics.)

Now at least on a CPR modded server, those "willy-nilly" folk will have their asses handed to em REAL quick. (And yes, I'm guilty as charged as I occationally do it.)

For me, ok spam heads read the words comming outta my mouth: FOR ME I enjoy having to be more cautious in my movements. This is because I know if I'm hanging my ass out there for the world to see it, well, there won't be much of it left to see. Unlike a non_CPR server where I can take considerably more punishment before paying the price for bad tactics.

Is this game REALISTIC. I think that answer is pretty obvious. If you really want to find out how many shots somebondy can take, go down to your local armed forces recruiting station, enlist and ask to be sent out to the front lines in our fight against terrorism.

In the meantime, find the server that best suits YOUR playing style and preferences. Who cares what f**king protocol this games uses as long as you don't have a really bad ping to the server you're trying to play on. And please don't start the techno-bable shit. It's not really the point of this thread. It seems to have gotten lost somewhere along the lines. Wasn't the original question asked by CorpusDan:

"So: My question is, does the reality mod somehow improve the accuracy of the rifle, or just the damage that it does?"

F**K, get over yourselves already....

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Oh, I'm sorry. Was that your head I just put a hole in?

Siggi, I do understand what you say. No matter how many things we disagree on I do understand your point of view sometimes.

Last Man, sorry that was poorly written.. I was directing the last part of that sentance to Madrebel primarilly.

His point that people still rush on public servers even on CPR is what I meant. That doesn't really change.

It does change the gameplay, I agree. Which is one reason I may re-assess my opinion of CPR. I see it as a challenge.

It will be interesting to see how they manage matches between non-cpr clans and cpr only clans.

I know I want to be in a non-cpr clan that always plays CPR if the opposiing clan wishes it.

No point being 'the best' (I put that in inverted commas as we all have our opinions of what is best, and whether anyone can be best) if you say no to a challenge.

I'm off to bed, night.

mr small parts.

lord siggi was trying to say he knows something about lag. he doesnt, he knows very little. the fact that he compared a sim to an fps proves that.

dont argue about something when you dont know anything about it. he was arguing i was bitch slapping.

and yes, knowing how the game works on a technical level can improve your gameplay.

as to this statement <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Unlike a non_CPR server where I can take considerably more punishment before paying the price for bad tactics<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> like i stated before 3 well plaecd M1 rounds will drop you, 1 head shot always drops you. compare that to 2 M1 rounds in CPR. How is that a "considerable" difference?

oh yeah thats right, you CPR players cant put 3 shots on target in succesion with a close grouping.