[quote="Pick Axe":2e7d5]I've never even been hunting, dude. I use my guns for target practice. So if you count bags of flour as "game", i guess I have. I also want them around in case some bastard tries to hurt my family or break into our property. I'm not a fanatic. My, and the extreme majority of all gun-owners, uses for guns are completely safe, legitimate, LEGAL, and (the reason I do it) it's FUN. And, the 2nd admendment is not there to give us grounds for attacking our government. It is made to allow us to have state mallitias and a armed population in case of an attack by an outside force. I know that is unlikely, but, like I said, there are other reasons I own guns.[/quote:2e7d5]

Why do you need to go to the range. ? Ive lived my whole life and survived without going ot a range. The thing is your placing the fact that you going to the range is more important then people getting shot up and dieing. A little "fun" as you put it isn't worth the lives. Go and tell that to any of the family's involved in Columbine. Im sure they will tell you about how much your fun cost them..

+ Read my above post.

[quote="Pick Axe":0f98d][quote="Short Hand":0f98d]. Automatic weapons aren't needed at all.

Gun maniacs flare away.[/quote:0f98d]

Never said they were. I don't own one, and don't plan too.[/quote:0f98d]

Then why argue im not on the topic of semi's.

In Texas automatic weapons are illegal to hold if your a citizen or you have a collectors license an I got 1 along with my Thompson M1A1! biggrin:
But Id have to buy a shooting license to fire it.

[quote="Short Hand":72405]

Why do you need to go to the range. ? Ive lived my whole life and survived without going ot a range. The thing is your placing the fact that you going to the range is more important then people getting shot up and dieing. A little "fun" as you put it isn't worth the lives. Go and tell that to any of the family's involved in Columbine. Im sure they they tell you about how much your fun cost them..

+ Read my above post.[/quote:72405]

It is a hobby, mother fucker. Ever heard of that? You want to tell me that because I shoot a target, kids get killed in school? You're a fucking moron.

How many people were killed last year with guns in america? I bet more people were killed in car accidents, probably even just drunk driving. So, we should also outlaw cars, and start another prohibition? Your a Dumb Ass. You're just trying to jump on the left wing bandwagon without looking at the issue first.

[quote="Short Hand":ada8b][quote="Pick Axe":ada8b][quote="Short Hand":ada8b]. Automatic weapons aren't needed at all.

Gun maniacs flare away.[/quote:ada8b]

Never said they were. I don't own one, and don't plan too.[/quote:ada8b]

Then why argue im not on the topic of semi's.[/quote:ada8b]

Bull shit, auto's are already banned, what else could you ban?

[quote="Pick Axe":a2c3b][quote="Short Hand":a2c3b]

Why do you need to go to the range. ? Ive lived my whole life and survived without going ot a range. The thing is your placing the fact that you going to the range is more important then people getting shot up and dieing. A little "fun" as you put it isn't worth the lives. Go and tell that to any of the family's involved in Columbine. Im sure they they tell you about how much your fun cost them..

+ Read my above post.[/quote:a2c3b]

It is a hobby, mother fucker. Ever heard of that? You want to tell me that because I shoot a target, kids get killed in school? You're a fucking moron.

How many people were killed last year with guns in america? I bet more people were killed in car accidents, probably even just drunk driving. So, we should also outlaw cars, and start another prohibition? Your a Dumb Ass. You're just trying to jump on the left wing bandwagon without looking at the issue first.[/quote:a2c3b]

Ok so let me get this straight. Before you unleash the emotions on me.

1 Cars are a neccesaty of living a modern life. You ban cars you ruin the economy you take countless jobs and its just not a reality The economy on the other hand could live without "certain" guns. Its a offtopic bogus example. Its stupid and your stupid for using it. got smack ? Im not the dumbass here you kinda just slapped the label across your chest by using such a dumb example. + Im pretty sure their are LAWS against driving under the influence just as their should be laws Against your automatic weapons" Hell even semi auto's should be banned but That ain't ever gonna happen so why even bother debating it.

Next the weapons are the issue's lets not start stereotyping then calling me antiAmerican just because I disagree with you. Thats another problem around here. People tend to insult not counter arguements and debate ligitimately. Its all about calling their ideals stupid then stereotyping them for it. Lets try and argue Im not some Biget shouting out anti semetic slogans here. Just saying something that won't kill anybody but will save somebody. Thats it.

OMFG.

Get rid of guns and people will find other ways of killing each other: it's just
that this particular item is so convenient right now that no substitute will do.

rolleyes:

the least that would happen is they would kill at a lower rate. Most people find it easy to pull the trigger. I don't think you would be able to masscre 18 kids at your school with a knife lol.

[quote="Short Hand":aacab]the least that would happen is they would kill at a lower rate. Most people find it easy to pull the trigger. I don't think you would be able to masscre 18 kids at your school with a knife lol.[/quote:aacab]

U wanna place a bet on that? Anyone could easily kill 50 kids kids with a knife especially in a way to crowded school, once person gets killed everyone else starts running and a huge jam starts ad all a killer has to do is thrust his knife 50 times...

yeah like columbine.

[quote="Infection_Smith@":4cc24]yeah like columbine.[/quote:4cc24]

i watched bowling for columbine tonight, and i got 3 words..

Fuck Charelton heston

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4th I will enable myself to protect myself and family from thugs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Your more likely to kill a family member then a so called thug. Its a fact.




that is not a fact. I would love you to prove that

Serious. Fook your pussy ass and all you gay little liberal anti american views.

Short youre even dumber than pyro. You should be fucking ashamed

I got an Idea, if you dont like things stop bitching I already would like to pour draino down youre little mouth.

LOL.

it is impossible to discuss guns with people from other countries because the views are soooo far apart. The countries where your rights have been trampled dont know what they dont have. I love the U.S. and all of our freedoms



nuff said

as short said, all you do is insulting. motivate that in a SMART way? thought so.

get a life...

i've decided to be very honest and open....














...this thread is gay

Ok... since none of you asshats have any idea how an M16 works let me enlighten you.

An m16 is a gas opperated air cooled shoulder fired assault rifle. It fires a 5.56 mm round in civilian use called a .223. This round travles at high velocity with little recoil, which is the premise behind all assualt rifles. The weapon DOES have a hammer, its internal and located in the trigger group. This hammer comes up to strike the firing pin located in the bolt carrier. The round advancing though the barrel sends gasses through a tube connected to the barrel, back into the weapon to opperate the cocking mechanism. There is NO piston as someone suggested. Pistons only operate the M249, and M240 machine guns.

[img]http://www.movv.com/prvupload/uploads/m16trigger.gif[/img]

You may legally own full auto weapons in the US but you must submit request forms, at which time the FBI will do background checks, and other things. Full auto weapons are expensive to purchase and opperate. Many people simply settle for the civi single shot 10 round equivilent.

I wont get into the debate about owning firearms or banning them. Mostly because its a pointless argument.

Still, no one needs a gun. I own two guns, I do not need them, my dad just happened to own two enfield rifles from 1861 he used for hunting.

I am not against people legalling owning a gun and using them in non harlful shit. But many people use it to kill...and americas and canadas court system/governemnt do not have the balls to really crack down on those people

so only you can have an opinion?... fuck that!... why don't you stop bitching?...

The one point I've been trying to get across about this select few of americans.

We are characterized as dumb because our views are different. Don't see any logic in that whatsoever. There were more votes liberal than conservative last election in the USA and he is attributing liberal views as anti american. He just called half his country anti-american. Though he is the all knowing person to what it is to be american because he's always right and only his views are correct. Bullshit.

Pyro I couldn't have said it better myself.

If Levenstein had one point to make other then fuck you Canadian go back to your uninformed country. The thing is we get CNN we get the NEw York Times we get NBC CBS Fox news. Do you get CBC ? do you get CTV ? no. The thing is we are informed about America jst as informed as Americans. So we can debate your politics because we are flooded in them. biggrin:

[quote:cb9ba]U wanna place a bet on that? Anyone could easily kill 50 kids kids with a knife especially in a way to crowded school, once person gets killed everyone else starts running and a huge jam starts ad all a killer has to do is thrust his knife 50 times...[/quote:cb9ba]

1 I don't think I could stab 4 people in my caf let alone 50.

[quote:cb9ba]it is impossible to discuss guns with people from other countries because the views are soooo far apart. The countries where your rights have been trampled dont know what they dont have. I love the U.S. and all of our freedoms



nuff said [/quote:cb9ba]

Irrelevent. The fact is in Canada has a high gun to person ratio. We own guns here. We know and we can understand. Were not being trampled and we are more free then you will ever be.



[quote:cb9ba]
that is not a fact. I would love you to prove that [/quote:cb9ba]

Its true.

Ohh ya. Im not anti American.

rock:

proof, not your word, I want proof

if you want to protect your family learn hand to hand combat.
it is not always nessicary to take ones life

canada has roughly 30 million million people and around 7 million guns... so thats almost one gun for every three or four people... id say thats alot of guns... but we have way less gun murders... theres a gun shop around the corner from my place, in a city of almost 1/2 a mill. in a nice neighborhood, that sells glocks, its not like canadians are strangers to guns....

That's why you shoot them if a leg.

You can still hit a main arterie. + The fact is you can still hurt someone you know. Id'e hate for some father to pull out his gun when he heres his son coming in at 4am in the morning.

[quote="Short Hand":7ce87]Pyro I couldn't have said it better myself.

If Levenstein had one point to make other then fuck you Canadian go back to your uninformed country. The thing is we get CNN we get the NEw York Times we get NBC CBS Fox news. Do you get CBC ? do you get CTV ? no. The thing is we are informed about America jst as informed as Americans. So we can debate your politics because we are flooded in them. biggrin:[/quote:7ce87]

Id appricate it if youd worry about your own country. I dont give a shit what your laws are, why do you care about us? Because were your protecters and we gavce you a culture?

[quote=MrLevinstein]Id appricate it if youd worry about your own country. I dont give a shit what your laws are, why do you care about us? Because were your protecters and we gavce you a culture?[/quote:4c432]
this just in

you suck

[quote=MrLevinstein]Id appricate it if youd worry about your own country. I dont give a shit what your laws are, why do you care about us? Because were your protecters and we gavce you a culture?[/quote:187df]

gave who culture?... lmao...

[quote=maple]this just in

you suck[/quote:1d6f7]

This just in, youre a left wing candian liberal pussy with nothing better to do but stick your nose in buisness that is not yours. Canada<USA

Yes we did give you guys your culture. Look at everything, your music, you sports lacrosse, baseball, football, drive ins, resturaunts, news organizations, movies. Its all american inspired my friend. GG suck at own culture. Face it Canada has always been a worse version of America. Youre like the U.S.A without all the glory. People should U.S.A in the streets of iraq. What do they do about canada... oh wait.

You know, the policemen in England don't carry guns, let alone the citizens.

[quote="Fluffy_Bunny":203b2]You know, the policemen in England don't carry guns, let alone the citizens.[/quote:203b2]

why then has Londons crime skyrocketed? No guns mean no crime right? Only the criminals have the guns.


as far as shooting them in the leg, well thats a joke. If you are dumb enough to pull it out be smart enough to pull the trigger. There is no such thing as "just shoot them in the leg" thats from Hollywood. If you point a gun at anything you must be willing to destroy what you are aiming at. Not hurt, not maim but destroy. These are not toys, they kill what you point them at. here is what I have found so far

[url="http://www.cdc.gov/"]http://www.cdc.gov/[/url] http://www.fbi.gov/
According to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, and the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Firearms are lumped in to a category that is 5th in causes of death in the United States titled “Unintentional Injuries”. Firearms are then ranked 15th as far as causes of deaths sub-categorized in the “Unintentional Injuries” category. The top 7 causes in this subcategory are Motor Vehicles 42,271 deaths, Falling 14,992 deaths, Poisoning 14,053 deaths, Unspecified 7,192 deaths, Suffocation 4,941 deaths, Fire/Burns 3370 deaths, and Drowning 3179 deaths.
Firearms down in its 15th position came in at 800 deaths.
Where is the call to ban Motor Vehicles? They did cause almost 53 times the amount of deaths that firearms caused.
Where is the call to ban all house hold goods containing poison?
Maybe we should be calling for a ban on water. It is indeed causing almost 4 times the deaths that firearms are causing every year.
According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) firearms are used approximately 550,000 times a year in the commission of a crime. There are several studies on the use of firearms for the prevention of crime. The Justice Information Center has a study on the low end of the spectrum putting the number of times a firearm was used by private citizens to deter a crime at 560,000 times a year. A study by Gary Kleck has this number at over 2,500,000 times a year.
Even the low end shows firearms are being used more times a year to prevent crime than to commit crimes.
The FBI says that there are about 2,300,000 firearms in private ownership in the U.S. and that 99.8% of those have never been used in the commission of a crime. The FBI also indicates that over 60% of the firearms used in crimes were stolen and that over 30% of the firearms used in crimes were purchased illegally. Is there any reasonable American who can look back over the past ten years and conclude: that restricting law abiding citizens from exercising a constitutionally protected right that is being obeyed by 99.8% of the population is a rational solution to a criminal element that statistically falls in to a small portion of attributed deaths in this country.
The rational argument here is that the facts on firearms prove that firearms are not being banned to save lives or to prevent crime, but that firearms are being targeted for purely political reasons. The facts overwhelming prove time and time again that guns save lives, and more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens (99.8% of gun owners) results in the reduction of crime.



and


Weapons bans miss the mark
By John R. Lott Jr.

AUSTRALIANS are a dangerous lot. Weapons that would hardly cause a second thought in the hands of a citizen in another country generate concern when held by an Australian.

Fortunately, some Australian state governments have understood the dangers of letting ordinary Australians get access to weapons such as laser pointers, a popular device for making business and academic presentations in countries such as the US.

Americans may feel safe when an academic addresses a conference using a laser pointer. In the hands of an Australian, however, there is understandable fear that these devices could do untold harm. An Australian academic with a laser pointer would cause real panic.

Now the Victorian Government is achieving international recognition for protecting Australians from a danger that has been around for far too long: swords. After July 1, swords will be banned and violators will face penalties that previously have been reserved for laser pointers - six months in jail and a $12,000 fine.

Swords are broadly defined as a cutting or thrusting weapon with a long blade, a hilt and one or two sharp edges. Although this unfortunately exempts knives with either no sharp or three or more sharp edges, or knives without handles, not specifying a blade length in the legislation hopefully ensures many knives will be banned.

A licensing process will be set up so that a select few will be granted an exemption and pay a $135 fee, but they will have to lock their weapons in sturdy safes and put in burglar alarms. If properly enforced, the law could produce other benefits, such as ensuring that dishes are promptly washed after dinner so that any offending steak knives can be placed back in their safe. On the downside, the knives would still be available during dinner when many family arguments might get out of hand. It is also not clear if the family will be able to use the knives if the licence holder is not present.

And if Australians can't be trusted with laser pointers or swords, they surely can't be trusted with guns. Citizens in other countries are obviously much more trustworthy. Americans, for example, can own all these items. Indeed, 46 states in the US even trust millions of law-abiding Americans to carry concealed handguns when walking on the street or eating in restaurants.

And, yes, in most states an academic addressing a conference or a class can carry a gun along with a laser pointer. Over the decades, concealed handgun permit holders in the US have proven to be extremely law-abiding, losing their permits at only hundredths of thousandths of one percentage point for any type of firearms related violation.

If dangerous weapons made citizens in other countries dangerous, no one would visit Switzerland. There, all able-bodied men between the ages of 20 and 42 are trusted to keep a machinegun in their homes as part of their military service. (Not the wimpy centre-fire semi-automatic rifles everyone is afraid to trust Australians with.) Yet the trust in the Swiss is well placed. Switzerland has one of the lowest murder rates in Europe.

Letting law-abiding citizens in the US and Switzerland own guns lowers crime because would-be victims are able to deter criminals or, if confronted, protect themselves. Australians are clearly quite different. They understand the risks of letting Australians own guns. The International Crime Victimisation Survey shows that Australia's violent crime rate is already twice that of the US or Switzerland. Australia's violent crime rate is about as high as England's, a country that bans handguns.

It would be simple enough just to blame Australia's high crime rates on its largely English heritage or its convict history, but for much of the past century Australia had lower crime rates than the US or the UK. Violent crime rates have gone up dramatically in Australia since the 1996 Port Arthur gun control measures. And violent crime rates averaged 20 per cent higher in the six years after the law was passed (from 1997 to 2002) than they did in 1996, 32 per cent higher than the violent crime rates in 1995. The same comparisons for armed robbery rates showed increases of 67 per cent and 74 per cent, respectively; for aggravated assault, 20 per cent and 32 per cent; for rape, 11 per cent and 12 per cent; murder, attempted murder and manslaughter rose by 5 per cent in both cases.

Perhaps six years of crime data is just not enough to evaluate the experience. Yet Australian governments seem to believe that if gun controls don't work at first, more and stricter regulations (like getting rid of swords) are surely the solution. Remember, never second-guess government regulations.

While the ban on swords is modelled on the gun control measures, the Victorian Government obviously hopes that its new measure is more successful in reducing crime. Australian gun laws also require people to lock their guns in safes and ban many types of guns. But requiring an alarm for storing any swords, unlike the 15 or more rule for guns in Victoria, is a nice touch and may make the crucial difference.

Metal swords have been around since the Bronze Age, 4600 years ago. Yet citizens in few countries have so clearly posed dangers to themselves and it is fortunate that Victoria recognises this.

Possibly, Australians can turn now to solving some really important problems. One suggestion: 240-volt electrical currents can kill you. Is it really true that Australians have these overpowering urges to try sticking metal in electrical sockets?

John Lott Jr, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, is author of "More Guns, Less Crime" (University of Chicago Press, 2000) and "The Bias Against Guns" (AEI Press, 2003).


more to come

Buddy the fact is guns still kill and it is a easily solvable problem. + Your insane if you blame Londons crime rate on the fact police have no guns. Im sure if they had a gun all the gangsters and criminals would automatically stop commiting crime.... stupid: Comparing how many vehicle deaths their are to handgun deaths is a bad comparision. People use cars to drive not to kill as a gun was made for.

[quote="Neo Nazi Hitler":cc2c0]all automated weapons are outlawed for normal citezens.[/quote:cc2c0]

wrong... you just need a class 3 gun licence. $500 a year in my state.

I say we can agree to disagree, I respect your right to be wrong.


Ill leave you wiht this sobering thought

http://www.ziarifleandpistolclub.com/gu ... _stats.htm
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1938, Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1935, China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents were unable to defend themselves and were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1964, Guatemala established gun control. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1970, Uganda established gun control. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1956, Cambodia established gun control. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

That places total victims who lost their lives because of gun control at approximately 56 million in the last century. Since we should learn from the mistakes of history, the next time someone talks in favor of gun control, find out which group of citizens they wish to have exterminated.