your prob right, I would think there is more action on the southern border.

[quote="Short Hand":cf9e7]http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050513-122032-5055r.htm[/quote:cf9e7]

That's unbelieveable. [sarcasm]I'll bet if we completely stop arresting illegals and the number of arrests goes to zero then that will really show up those mean old Minutemen!!!![/sarcasm]

yeah, thats what we need now, to piss of our oldest friends to the north. wtf, if they were so concerned about the canadian border they would have done something a loong time ago to snag those shitty actors and comedians that flooded across in the 80s and 90s. this whole border situation is just another distraction from the bang up job W is doing.

it really has nothing to do with Canadians, they wont be at crossings. They will be where ever they have info on illegal crossings. Not 1 citizen of Canada has a thing to be concerned about. I still have no idea why they are even bothering with the northern border, the biggest problems are to the south (unless they have some good info)

[url:97da5]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolationism[/url:97da5]

rolleyes: hake: rolleyes:

If we ever declare English as the official language of the country, then I'd agree that immigrants should have to learn the language. Until then, I don't believe forcing English upon anyone is a very prudent move. That said, I don’t think we should ever declare an official language. Not only does it go against the founding principles of this country, it also would promote the trend of globalization. Many of you who claim immigrants “ruin our economy” should be concerned about the economic implications of globalization rather than Mexicans “stealing” US jobs.

Mexicans did not "steal' American jobs. Illegal aliens will work for lower wages, causing those people that pay the wages to offer less and less, untill the wages are too low to make ends meet for most Americans. My nephew who is a dry waller by trade can no longer work here in the Kansas City area because the prevailing wage for a dry waller is around $8.00 an hour. It used to be $18.00. His rent didn't go down. His car payment didn't go down. Food prices didn't go down. Why is it so hard to understand that unrestricted immergration is bad.

The president (and his daddy) did more to "steal" American jobs than any Mexican did.

good post. +1

congratulations you missed my point entirely

[quote:0c12c]If we ever declare English as the official language of the country, then I'd agree that immigrants should have to learn the language. Until then, I don't believe forcing English upon anyone is a very prudent move. That said, I don’t think we should ever declare an official language. Not only does it go against the founding principles of this country, it also would promote the trend of globalization. Many of you who claim immigrants “ruin our economy” should be concerned about the economic implications of globalization rather than Mexicans “stealing” US jobs.[/quote:0c12c]

I believe your point would Balkanize this country more than help it. Americas strength is that it is a melting pot. People from different cultures come here and assimilate into our population. Parts of the different cultures are absorbed into our culture. Language is how that assimilation occurs.

assimilation owns.

The way I see it is both John and Blue are right in a way.

I agree with Blue that we should not force our language or culture onto those who come to our country & John's story about job availibillity is very true all over the country.

But here's my take....

English is a fundemental piece of working and living in the US. We should be helping these people to learn our language, I learned German when I was in Germany...not because I had to, hell they speak English as well, but because it is the language of the land and to best communicate with natives, I should use the native tounge.
I also don't agree with your fears of globalization, while I do understand them, it is the future of human existance on this planet. Eventually we will no longer fight over government, gods, or liberties.... optamistic I know, but it is our best shot of out-living the planet. (By that I mean a broad sence of unification, not the specifics of trade laws)

It is not the fault of the immegrant to accept less pay for work, it is the fault of the contractors and local law enforcement, it is the fault of the local ELECTED government officials and the bussiness owner in America.
Until we as a people or as a government accept and abide the law, we have no one to blame but ourselves for loosing our own jobs. Of course, why cast blame? Why not instead fix the problem at it source...which I imagine I have a very different idea of how to do that than you do, lol.

rock:

Assimilation is neither a hallmark nor a desirable quality of diversity. Instead, embracing foreign culture and recognizing what separates ourselves from others is what we should strive for. Assimilation may naturally follow, however it shouldn't be forced via language restrictions or anything similar.

That said, you and Tiberius still missed my point. My point was less about language and more about globalization. I should make it clear that I am a proponent of globalization. I realize that it is inevitable. I also believe that in the long term it will have a very positive effect on our nation. However, I think that the short term initial effects will have a negative impact on our economy. These impacts will likely include a leveling out of the American standard of living, a weaker job market, and inflation. We're already beginning to see such things, with the weakening of the dollar vs. foreign currency.

What you need to realize is that the demolition of local labor markets is nothing new. It's impossible to blame an immigrant for wanting a better life and taking extremely low pay. If anyone is at fault, its the American citizens who hire illegals and pay them unfair wages. Don't get me wrong; I'm a bloodsucking capitalist too. I just believe that playing by the rules can lead to wealth too.

if you want to live here you should learn the language, its simple. If I went to france (fat chance) Id learn French. i see no reason to have all the govt offices learn a second language just because these people are too lazy to learn the common language of the country. i dont want to and am not going to learn Spanish because all of these people come here ILLEGALLY. Screw them. learn the language or get the fuck out. put .50 cals at the borders and that will stop the illegal flow. Coming into this country illegally is an act of war. We shouldnt change the country so criminals can live here happily

Canada = French & English.

I think illegal immigration is bs... If they want in the country they must earn it... Same with any americans trying to move to another country...

Every country has their own laws... You better obey them or get the fuck out...

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":cca23]because all of these people come here ILLEGALLY. [/quote:cca23]

oOo:

illegal immigrants cost our healthcare systems billions every year and deprive American citizens of healthcare they deserve by forcing bankrupted hospitals to close.

They take jobs that americans could be doing and therefore create stagnation of the unemployed....

illegal immigrants are bad for the United States

You dug this thread up after almost a month to state the glaringly obvious?

Nice work. annoy:

are you a former member here ?

there's nothing glaringly obvious about the statement concerning how much of our money is wasted on illegals and unable to be used for citizens...many people don't know that or at least have never noticed it.

and as for digging up an old thread, I was looking through, saw something that interested me that was posted before I registered so I posted my 2 cents.

[quote="Short Hand":7e4fd]are you a former member here ?[/quote:7e4fd]

yes

he is absolutly correct

[quote=c312]yes[/quote:545de]

Who were you?

[url=http://www.imageshack.us:13562][img]http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/9468/paper7yd.jpg[/img][/url:13562]

oOo:

yes sir

c-a-t-a-l-y-s-t

they all come crawling back.

well of course, we all want cheap food and clothes, but we dont want to actually do them ourselves right? what jobs do illegal immigrants take from citizens? where your SAT scores not high enough to get you a fruit picking job or custodial janitor spot at the local warehouse? please, if the govt was soooo concerned about illegal immigrants, then they would have done something about it ie, coming down on WalMart, Dole, Del Monte, all the fruit and wine companies and countless other industries who rely on cheap labor to pass on lower prices to consumers. doctors are supposed to provide aid to anyone who needs it, perhaps if this country would focus more on a national health care system than missle defense? citizens w/o health care coverage also strain the medical industry.

They take jobs in the construction industry. They take jobs in landscaping, custodial, manufacturing, and food service. More insidious though is they drive wages down.

as martagen said.. if you feel so concerned, lobby the government to force eqaul pay for illegals. Then it will come down to who ever does the better job. rolleyes:

[quote="Short Hand":68f7e]as martagen said.. if you feel so concerned, lobby the government to force eqaul pay for illegals. Then it will come down to who ever does the better job. rolleyes:[/quote:68f7e]oh snap. EVERYONE WE FOUND THE ANSWER!!! WE CAN STOP THE SEARCH!!!! THANK YOU SHORTHAND FOR SAVING US WITH YOUR ABSOLUTELY FULL-PROOF AND IMMEDIATE ANSWER TO THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT QUESTION!

/end capslock

[quote="Short Hand":1e30e]as martagen said.. if you feel so concerned, lobby the government to force eqaul pay for illegals. Then it will come down to who ever does the better job.[/quote:1e30e]

How about if the government just enforced the law and sent the illegals packing.

[quote=Johnj]How about if the government just enforced the law and sent the illegals packing.[/quote:1c54b]Thats impossible to do if you relied soley on the govt to come up with a solution. You would have to increase the bureuacracy on a large scale just to monitor and audit business for any effectiveness, not to mention the border patrols.. You need the help of the industries to halt immigration because thats why they come here. You take away the jobs, and they wouldnt come here. I dont see immigration as the big problem that everyone makes it out to be. They come here to work, live and buy stuff here. They do contribute to the economy. The only problem I see is the health care and maybe the educational system, but those two never even provided adequate coverage even before the 'problem' of immigration picked up.