calling it something other than marriage just makes you sound like youre in denial. you know its the same thing but arent willing to admit it. just let it go, man.

[quote=c312]and they call the right brainwashed....

the concept of homophobia is a joke. its an attempt to try to make people's opinions unacceptable.[/quote:d11fd]

Then why is it "un natural" as you say ?.......I see no joke. I see someone who can't stand the thought of 2 guys macking it out. I also fail to see how me trying to be more accepting and broadening "my views" is brainwashing... I thought brain washing was more along the lines of growing up thinking they are un-natural.

It was a good answer to the boredom of the civilizations years upon years ago...they were bored as fduck nothing to do...but now they did...they had a "belief" and if anyone disagreed with them they thought it was their "right" to kill them. Religion has been a blessing to many dead bodies indeed...Im sure they are throwing a party in Hell thannking the concept of religion for all it did for them.

[quote="Short Hand":d841c][quote=c312]and they call the right brainwashed....

the concept of homophobia is a joke. its an attempt to try to make people's opinions unacceptable.[/quote:d841c]

Then why is it "un natural" as you say ?.......I see no joke. I see someone who can't stand the thought of 2 guys macking it out. I also fail to see how me trying to be more accepting and broadening "my views" is brainwashing... I thought brain washing was more along the lines of growing up thinking they are un-natural.[/quote:d841c]

How is it natural? You cannot say that it is, they can't reproduce, nature didn't mean for homosexuals to continue their kind - they are not natural.

actually homosexuality is natural. it is found in all species.

http://www.exn.ca/dailyplanet/view.asp?date=4/11/2005

click on monkey business

Yes, but monkeys also kill their young, don't compare us to them. Besides, if it were natural for monkeys to be gay, then they would be able to reproduce homosexually by now, but they haven't, they are just stupid animals that get confused

What university did you graduate from with your degree in Biology?

don't need a degree in biology to see that two penises can't make babies... oOo:

who fuckin cares about kids anyways, i dont fuck my gf to get her pregnant.

Your also not married to your girlfriend. If she were to get pregnant with your child would you marry her, or would you ask her to kill your baby.

ouch

yeah id want her to get an abortion, and she would look at me like im retarded if i were to say 'omg what a miracle of life! lets get mawwied and be together 4eva.' she would think about getting an abortion before it popped in my head. having sex doesnt mean you are going to marry that person in any situation, thats just being naive.

You would murder your own child? I think I'll light a candle for you.

its not murder, its just a fertilized egg. im realistic, im not in the point in my life where im ready to have kids right now, and i am not going to marry my gf anytime soon. why would we go through a pregnancy when it will ruin both our lives and we wont be able to support it?

I have a couple friends that have had abortions. I haven't had to deal with that, but I think I agree with mad here.

I also have had friends who have had abortions. It is sad to see what happens to someone when they realize what they did 20 or 25 years before.
I had a child who was aborted and I wish I did not know that. There wasn't a thing I could do about it, at the time, but whenever I run into her now she runs away in shame.

Yes, I can definitely see it having an effect. I agree that it would not be something I would want to do; however, if I were ever in the situation, I would have to consider it. Its not something you want to ahve happen, but i'm not adverse to it entirely.

Let it be up to the individual.

im not a heartless person and i can definately see why abortions are such a sensitive issue to people. but just like many other things, it is handled differantly by everyone. i know its a sad thing and i dont want to give off the impression that its just a simple thing to do. but my personal belief is that a fertilized egg or embryo is not a human being. it has the potential to become one, but is not at that time. i know that people have differant views and that is why i am glad that we have the option of having an abortion or not.

Actaully,men's "g" spot is located in the anus.... Funny eh ? Not to mention many cases of Homosexaulity are genetic....So yes it comes natural.

[quote="Short Hand":c647c] Not to mention many cases of Homosexaulity are genetic....So yes it comes natural.[/quote:c647c]

and you have proof for this? as far as i know, they are only saying that some people are "predisposed" to be homosexual just as some people are "predisposed" to be alcoholics or others are "predisposed" to like vanilla ice cream over chocolate ice cream...the "gay gene" has yet to be found.

being someone who has been called to religion, I have no problem with civil unions so that folks can have the same benefits as heterosexual couples such as being able to jointly file taxes and insurance etc., my problem comes from gay couples demanding that the church "bless" their union. i could give two craps less what you people feel about religion but for those of us who practice it...we are not homophobic. you can love people without condoning their behavior. i don't agree with that life style, just as i dont agree with men who cheat on their wives as a viable and healthy life style.

you just have to live with the fact that there are some people who don't agree with you on this one, short and because they don't does not mean that they will hate or condone violence against people who choose to live like that

Umm......most gays do not "demands" the blessing from the catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Anglican, Presbiteryian, Methodist, or any other church. All the ask is for Marriage. Christians did not invent the whole idea of Marriage, it is a VERY ancient ceremony. Not something you can declare a monopoly on for hetrosexauls. I fail to see a single gay activists group ask for the Catholic church to perform their ceremony. rolleyes:


(Also note I was a "PRACTICING CATHOLIC" for over 15 years since I was born. I know what it means and how much bullshit it really is)

-Homosexaulity is genetic, but not inherited" Heritable does not mean "inherited", so in fact Homosexaulity is a mixture of genetics and psychology. Your upbringing has just as much effect as your genes do.... or that is at least what current studies are suggesting in this ever so changing world. (of course any reputable genetics studys only concentrate on direct inheritence.....like eye colour or your height). For the most part, studys are inconclusive, no one can really boast about the answer.


-Not quite proof of the gay gene, but a excellent read into it.

http://members.aol.com/gaygene/pages/standard.htm

I found the stances section rather intresting

[quote="Is There a "Gay Gene"?":5fac8] Ever since homosexuality became an issue in the United States 30 years ago or so, there have been three competing positions on it.

Position 1: Homosexuality is a chosen "lifestyle," like vegetarianism.

Position 2: Homosexuality is a disease, like schizophrenia.

Position 3: Homosexuality is a biological orientation, like left-handedness, and is neither chosen nor pathological.

Secular conservatives tend to accept Position 1 and/or Position 2, which means that every new piece of lab research on the gay gene sets their teeth on edge. But say that science had concluded Position 3 was a matter of fact. There is no question that conservatives would suffer a short-term loss; it is always painful when you have committed yourself to a belief that is literally proved untrue, and enemies of conservatism would play "gotcha" for a while.

But what the Right fails to comprehend is that a conservatism unremittingly hostile to homosexuality and *truly committed to the resurgence of conservative thought with real impact on public policy can, and should, embrace the gay gene, which will bring conservatives two long-term gains.[/quote:5fac8]

My gay friend has the best quote on this:

"Homosexuality is Gods way of ensuring that the truly gifted and classy folks are not burdened with children."

Then again you could just cut your balls off with a rusty dull knife and achieve the same results.


ed:

[quote="Short Hand":40cef]Umm......most gays do not "demands" the blessing from the catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Anglican, Presbiteryian, Methodist, or any other church. All the ask is for Marriage. Christians did not invent the whole idea of Marriage, it is a VERY ancient ceremony. Not something you can declare a monopoly on for hetrosexauls. I fail to see a single gay activists group ask for the Catholic church to perform their ceremony. rolleyes:


(Also note I was a "PRACTICING CATHOLIC" for over 15 years since I was born. I know what it means and how much bullshit it really is)

[/quote:40cef]

you don't work in a church and don't practice your "bullshit" faith anymore so you have no idea the crapstorm that is flying around most protestant (not so much catholic) congregations. because you don't then you don't see the gay activist groups that target protestants specifically in order to have gay marriage sanctioned by the church, not to mention more homosexuals in leadership positions (on par with the marriage issue). most denominations are having to play damage control in order that certain groups don't split their churches down the middle.

like i said, i could care less how you feel about religion, im not forcing mine down anyone's throat, so i feel its only fair that i not be called a "homophobe" because i dont agree. you can call practicing faith "bullshit" all you want...that doesn't change anything; what you do and what you believe in your life is your business...don't try and make it mine. (its cool to be gay but not cool to be a person of faith...wtf kind of logic is that? liberals want all people to be equal, unless youre a conservative who believes in God...nice system you got there) why is it that when put up for votes, the majority of people in a majority of states vote against mandating gay marriage? because America is a bunch of gay bashing hatemongers? no, they just don't want the issue forced down their throats like it has been, and they don't think its a civil rights issue but a lifestyle choice that has been turned into a socio-political debate...until you can prove that homosexuality is absolutely hereditary, you have no scientific ground to stand on.

and all of those articles you posted still cannot prove that there is a "gay gene" only predispositions of it...who does those studies? all studies and cases are peformed by people, people have bias and reasons behind doing the studies...it has nothing to do with conservative thought vs liberal thought

liberals want everyone to believe they fight for the good of mankind until someone doesnt buy into their crusade and then they are labeled "homophobes"

The point of marriage is not to reproduce...we are not obligated to reproduce in our lifetime...

Id like to get married, like to know Ive had at least a kid to see what ti is like...but im not obligated too. Marriage doens't mean you need to have babies.

and fuck i don't know what id do if I ever get some bitch pregnant befor eim married.

homosexuality is not genetic.

Being raised a certain way could make it a lot easier for someone to be gay, but it isn't in the genes.

proof?

burden of proof is on the person who claimed it was genetic... show me an article that states the discovery of the gay chromosome and I'll change my statement.

Show me proof that there is a god first happy:

we weren't talking about God, why do I need to prove him to you.

but it all comes down to god, if it didnt then who cares about gay getting married. why do you need to prove him to me? well im the kind of guy that likes the facts, with funding we can find out if being gay is genetic or not.

read "Mere Christianity" if you are into logic. It's written by CS Lewis who was an atheist then reason led him to accepting there was a God.

if you are scientific, read "Darwin's Black Box"

and proving if there is or isn't a God doesn't make a difference in whether or not homosexuality is natural or not.

but it does, if it is choosen then it would be a sin, but if its genetic, then what is it?

no, you don't understand.

Right now, I am arguing that homosexuality is not natural, that's all, just that it is not genetic. God is not in the argument at this point at all, just scientific facts.

That's your opinion though. It's not fact.

Fact: There are MANY homosexual people who have breakdowns when they realise they can't change their sexual orientation. Alot of people have killed themselves because they were afraid of how people would treat them if they came out.
Most gay people are reluctant about their sexual orientation.

Therefore, there is no bearing or control over who they are sexually attracted too. It might as well be hereditary. Tell me why you think it's more important that it is hereditary as opposed to it being nurtured? You think it's controllable?

How many cases of homosexuality have you heard of, where they just went to a psychologist or a psychiatrist, and they talked them out of their sexual orientation.

Whether you agree with it or not, to alot (if not most) of homosexuals, they are forced to live with it, despite wanting to be straight.

[Tom Cruise]You don't know psychiatry, I do![/Tom Cruise]

They can't sit with psychologists and talk their way out of being gay because psychologists will tell them they are perfectly fine the way they are. And I really don't think that there are a lot of homosexuals who are that way despite truly wanting to be straight (keyword truly). I think some may say they want to be, but don't actually.

You're pretty narrow-minded, aren't you?

How many gay people do you actually know, to be able to generalise and claim they all don't truly want to be straight? Have you ever actually talked to a gay person before?

I've met a few in my time and the one same story I hear, is that of dealing with total confusion and having suicidal thoughts based on this confusion with sexual orientation.
Do you think people would willingly put themselves through that?

Do you think that gay guys just decide one day, "Hey, fucking men looks fun, I am now.....GAY."

Whether it's natural (determined before birth) or nutured (determined after, by upbringing). There is no control or will by the person in question to change their sexual orientation to "unnatural" mode. There is no other explanation. Human's can't consciously control their own sexual orientation.

no one will ever know for sure how the determination of orientation works.