Should go in Current Events thread

What happens when there are 5 times as many guns in houses, and burgulars who target houses where people aren't home steal their guns? Then there are more criminals on the loose with guns.

Its not as onesided as you seem to think it is, Solidus....theres definitely no need to call someone a "fucking dolt," just because they're one of the many people that disagree with you.

Using this incident as more reason for concealed weapons is ridiculous....Its clearly a one-off school shooting for Canada - THAT is why I was suprised to hear about it....and I realise people are retarded, that's why I think its stupid to put more guns out there available for these retarded people to get their hands on.

...and I've said this before and I'll say it again - There is no comparison to a gun. No power tool, no sword, no car, no breadknife is comparable to an object where you can stand a hundred feet away and simply squeeze your finger to kill someone. Its pretty damn easy to kill someone with a gun. Easier than anything.

More guns out there, and conceal carry laws, will give more chance of people making horrible mistakes at the cost of lives.

Your friend approaches you and jokingly suprises you from behind, you pull your gun out in instinct and pop him twice in the sternum.

...and don't say in a situation like that, whether its a real danger or not, that you're definitely gonna have the chance to evaluate the situation before you, pull out your gun, take it off safety, and pop the guy. Chances are he'll come up and smack you on the head with a pole in suprise. If he thinks theres any chance your carrying (under a conceal-carry law, then everyone would be suspect to a mugger) then he's DEFINITELY gonna suprise you.

You shouldnt need to carry a gun around with you everywhere just because theres a CHANCE you might get attacked in the street - Unless you live in some fucking ghetto where there is a huge chance you'll get fucked on your way home.
We don't walk around with crash helmets on just in case a car jumps a curb and knocks us down - Which is alot more likely than getting savagely beaten, without being suprised in the first place.

IMO, The paranoia you demonstrate is reason enough to NOT give you a conceal carry option.

imwithstupid:

[quote:9f6d5]Nice logic. When you get cornered, raped and beaten, tell me the same thing you fucking dolt.[/quote:9f6d5]

One, a "dolt" is probably the last term Id use to describe Coleman. Leader of an Arab sleeper cell; sure. Hand with explosives; quite possibly. Terrorist - oh you betcha. But "dolt" - hardly.

Two, who says a gun is the best mitigating factor for direct aggression against your particular person? There arent other methods an individual can use to protect themselves? The best answer is "lets arm everyone"? Because now you've gone from advising people they have the ability to purchase firearms, to "hey lets arm everyone, and hope noone - who we dont want to be victims - decides to have a fit of lovers rage or any other irrational emotion that causes them to start shooting the citizenry".

Do people have the right to protect themselves. Of course. But I'm not about to start advocating that people do so by dialing it all the way up to EXTREME. Im NOT for gun control by the way, because its a right and by god dont tread on me. . .but to suggest mass armament, and a culture of fear based on whos carrying what - no thanks.

I agree with TGB. I believe the rest of this country and Canada need to take on Virginias gun control laws.

i overheard that theyre trying to blame this one on video games.

Don't worry, they have scapegoats and feel-good solutions well planned and when we're all disarmed, it'll be UK/Australia all over again. Then, when shit keeps happening, we'll try banning a few extra things like "evil knives" and once people realize these kinds of things don't stop, we'll be too far gone to roll back. You just don't fuckin' get it...

I'm not extreme, and I'm not asking for everyone to have CCW: I'm just saying that we should have the freedom to choose this method of self-defense because it's worked extremely well elsewhere, so why not here ? People need to get familiar with firearms because they don't have a mind of their own, nor do they just go off at random for no fucking reason: they're just engineered metal designed to propel smaller pieces of metal... your demonizations just slow our progress down.

When they ban everything from law-abiding citizens and we're still at the mercy of events like this, don't say I didn't tell you so. We've tried one side of the gun control coin; isn't it time we try the other?

He was a vampirefreak poster with serious issues... check out his journal/pictures. They're going through his stuff now to make a psychological profile.

That's how things like this will stop: not by banning guns, but by proactively seeking out and treating mental illness, high-stress and high-risk individuals. Education is key, not prohibition and taboos.

wow, a gun control debate and I havent chimed in. Go figure?

It is sad that that man did what he did and it will effect alot of people for the rest of thier lives. I hope the wounded recover.





back to the debate

where can you find this guys profile

Looks like this assfuck shot himself after getting winged in the arm by police. Cowardly fuck. I hope he's enjoying the barbed wire-wrapped pole being shoved up the eye of his cock by demons in the 8th ring of hell.

[img]http://www.groundforce1.com/forums/images/avatars/38235535045059d10b3919.gif[/img]

rock:

I think I missed something....What's wrong with UK/Australia? Their crime-rate isn't particularly bad.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_3542.aspx


His Blog: http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_3554.aspx

fucked

Well...when im out on my own...even though I always do feel safe cuz well...no one does anything here...but shit does happen.

Id be perfectly fine with having a concealed handgun. You'll be dead by the time 911 comes.

And this comes from the guy who is anti-gun...I'm just in the mood that if ya can't beat em join em cuz well...it's better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it.

Look for a reference called "Gun Facts": it's a collection of statistics and figures for various countries and US states. Unanimously, states and countries with less gun control have reduced crime rates while places like the UK and Australia have suffered from increased crime rates (especially violent crime) since introducing restrictive legislation or just banning firearms outright... it's all over the board.

Firearms ownership is a powerful deterrent against home invasions, home burglaries, assaults, rape, et cetera. Problem is, politicians and anti-gun lobbies want you thinking otherwise.

Know someone who goes to the college, they said they heard gunshots and the teacher made them go against the wall till safe then he said he just ran from his school home which is a solid hour run, said he wanted nothin to do with media or anything was just scared shitless.

Those statistics could be attributed to anything...As an example, a rise in immigration from poorer countries could increase the crime rate...Seems more like a coincidence that pro-gun groups have latched onto, in order to make their point.
Personally, I don't have a problem with gun laws, nor a little less gun control, but when it comes to your calls for concealed-weapon allowances, its about as ridiculous as your black and white opinion on the whole issue.

I think you see yourself as a good example of someone who could handle themselves under new gun laws, but believe me, not everyone else out there is as capable of controlling their own emotions. People go postal, people sometimes can't control their emotions, and people OFTEN make mistakes....Having more guns out there, readily available make it easy to excacerbate situations like these.
Your ideas for this totally relaxed uncontrolled gun society aren't functional because of the downfalls in natural human nature.

No, the situation doesn't have to be as you describe regarding looser laws and concealed carry. I posted the following on canadiangunnutz, I hope you'll enjoy it:

#1

The difference between police/guards and citizens regarding firearms is that the former have to undergo psychological evaluations (in college and during the recruitment process in the case of police) prior to being given their duty weapon... citizens take a two-day class.

I was never comfortable with the process of obtaining firearms because specific knowledge and physical safety aside, no personal character and psychological evaluations are done to ensure that BillyBob in front of you is actually of sane disposition or has the cognitive ability to understand the totality of his actions.

I can't see flames coming my way for this, but I'll wear the fireproof suit anyway.

#2

I don't expect the public to support it unless our government eases them into it: I would hope that given our stricter application process, they would allow currently prohibited firearms and devices along with possibly offering the option of concealed carry.

Make no mistake: I'm all for simple and logical firearm laws... but for qualified people. As it stands, almost anyone can acquire the license and it's bad news because many shouldn't: an acquaintance of mine could easily pass the exams and trust me, he's the last person you want manipulating a firearm (and not necessarily because of unsafe practices).

I hope you understand what I'm trying to convey.

I will chime in as an english guy lookin in here. The way I see it is the general public (here in the UK anyway) shouldnt need to carry a weapon
cos the need shouldnt be there. By saying that I mean we should be adequatly protected not only by laws but by the law enforcement ppl who are there to protect us.

saying that I do think a lot of crime would go down in this country if the police were armed as atm it seems to go this way:

Guy goes into bank with gun to rob it
a shit load of cops turn up and "talk" him out
he gets a few years in prison
gets out and reoffends

I think if the actually thought the might get shot or get a stiffer penalty in jail then a lot of ppl would think twice.

Just a thought after readin thru some of the posts and not intended to be a definitve answer

[quote="Scorpion -]M15F1T[-":3a9d0]... The way I see it is the general public (here in the UK anyway) shouldnt need to carry a weapon cos the need shouldnt be there. By saying that I mean we should be adequatly protected not only by laws but by the law enforcement ppl who are there to protect us....[/quote:3a9d0]

Scorp, the problem is that we don't live in a perfect world. You can't have a policeman following you around 24 hours a day. The "law" only stops law-abiding citizens, not thugs and nut cases. I have a .45 that I keep for protection. I have it because the police can't instantly appear at my house if someone breaks in. I have it because I'm getting old and I probably can't whip a 20 year old's butt like I used to. God made men, Sam Colt made them equal.

But I also keep it just because I enjoy target shooting. It has nothing to do with protection and everything to do with a fun afternoon shooting targets with my daughter.

lol shorthand hake:

the fact of the matter is, almost none of the gun crimes are commited by law abiding citizens who legally purchased their fire arms for their own use. the vast majority of gun crimes here in the states are commited by criminals using stolen or black market weapons. by taking away law abiding american citizens right to own weapons you are doing nothing but empowering the criminals. an old saying says it best, "guns don't kill people....dangerous minorities do".

ok cletus

hake:

Yeah lol....

Where do you think they steal half of the guns from anyways? I don't think anyones saying you shouldn't be allowed to arm yourself....I think most people are saying the laws are currently fine the way they are and you shouldnt need to encourage more people to own guns to make a point.

I'd agree with that, because if everyone has a gun in their home, think about how easy it would be for bad people to get their hands on one....They wouldn't need black market connections, they'd just need to monitor a family home for a day or so, and go rob them when they're out.

anyone else here drunk? im going to bed im so gone tonight. i wreak of cigarettes and booze. sleeping:

40 Reasons to support gun control:

1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, and Chicago cops need guns.

2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 80.6 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Arlington, VA's high murder rate of 1.6 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.

3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."

4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994, are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.

5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.

6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.

7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.

8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense — give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p. 125).

10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns and Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery.

11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seatbelts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for spinal paralysis, a computer programmer for Y2K problems, and Sarah Brady [or Sheena Duncan, Adele Kirsten, Peter Storey, etc.] for firearms expertise.

12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1791, refers to the National Guard, which was created by an act of Congress in 1903.

13. The National Guard, funded by the federal government, occupying property leased to the federal government, using weapons owned by the federal government, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a state militia.

14. These phrases," right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumeration's herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people," all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" refers to the state.

15. We don't need guns against an oppressive government, because the Constitution has internal safeguards, but we should ban and seize all guns, thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments to that Constitution.

16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense, which is why the army has millions of them.

17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they serve no military purpose, and private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles," because they are military weapons.

18. The ready availability of guns today, with waiting periods, background checks, fingerprinting, government forms, et cetera, is responsible for recent school shootings,compared to the lack of school shootings in the 40's, 50's and 60's, which resulted from the availability of guns at hardware stores, surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, mail order, et cetera.

19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, and the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity.

20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.

21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.

22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."

23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.

24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.

25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.

26. A self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon."

27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.

28. The right of online pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.

29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self-defense only justifies bare hands.

30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.

31. Charlton Heston as president of the NRA is a shill who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.

32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.

33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too.

34. Police officers, who qualify with their duty weapons once or twice a year, have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.

35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.

36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.

37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people, which is why the police need them but "civilians" do not.

38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good.

39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon.

40. When Handgun Control, Inc., says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands," they don't mean you. Really.

i have a concealed bat

Those things can be quite deadly when used correctly.

[img]http://www.nature-shetland.co.uk/naturelatest/pics/nat%20the%20bat.jpg[/img]

ed:

http://www.a-human-right.com/

Choose Liability and take the poll if you're against firearms ownership or feel that severely restricting available types would somehow benefit us. Once you're done, peruse the documents on the other side... chances are you will see the light.