LOL lets see how many pages we can get to
 

Yeah man don't worry too much about other people maps, each one will have its good and bad points and who know if we like each other map we can collaborate on the next one I have 2 in mind, one a fun one the other another DDay one which so far I haven't heard anyone is attempting maybe because it was a UK operation ;-)
I am and have been laboring long and hard to get mine authentic looking spent hour search the web and have a library of documents and photos yet for all that some essential info is still missing, I have yet to find a useful picture of the fire control op that I can get a idea of the out side let alone the inside.
Also realistically one will have to scale back the map as the real area is too large. My main concern is to do justice to those that fought there and not trivialize it by making it GI joe.
Also of course we wont have hundred of players :(
Any large open map like this is likely to suffer from a fps drop too. So you must realise that it is a harder map to do well than some town/street map..
There aren't any Algiers ocean textures by name, the trick is finding the right one.
By the way the rock at the end has it really got a hole in it? I check many picture and in two there was a shadow but of 20 or so none showed definately a hole. I have done a version of each but might lose it because its costing alot of brushes for little gain.

[img]http://www.oddball.woof.dsl.pipex.com/images/pdh_wire.jpg[/img]

Hole in rock...
 

A hole in what rock? oOo: I don't see any visible hole in a rock that can't resemble anything unrealistic, or anything that would ruin the screenshot. biggrin:

Legend

I'm not putting the gun directly on top of the cliff, I'm putting it a bit further back of where the main peice of the bunker complex is, so it'll be a good walk to that place. cool:
I suppose the objective won't be that easy, sense you gotta climb up a cliff which can obviously be camped by the axis. You could be climbing up and get shot down, or you could get to the top and get mowed. So the only way I think the allies can have a chance is if they lob grenades over the cliff if that's possible or they can overrun the axis position in shear numbers. Sounds pretty hard, that might take some more thinking.

Yeah, that's where I went to make a tree, when I get the commontree, it has snow all over it, I'll just make some and see if they look right after compile.
I mean are you skinning as of right now? I have this skin with your name on it. You look like a marine. It's not important, I'm just wondering.
I pressed the Print Screen button, but I have no idea where to find the screenshot, does it give you a message when you take a shot? eek:
Where do I type utility? eek:
Superkat, should I just give you the .map and let you check out some stuff?

Sounds good, Oddball.
Do you mean the rock that is almost separate with the land? If you do, I see no hole and you should put one there (realistic). If you're talking about any other place, I don't see a hole.
Yeah, your map looks pretty damn big. Cut out the least crucial parts and fog that baby up. Might want to make the water longer, or else it looks too ugly. But the rest of the map is beautiful! biggrin:

I just noticed today, I'VE BEEN PROMOTED biggrin: ! Finally! 30 forums gets you to a corporal... When was I private first class mad: ??
Does everybody here go to school? I'm in high school... M16:

Keep up the good work!
Havoc_covaH

Sure, i go to........
 

Sure, I go to high school too. How big is the map gonna be, do u think? A quarter mile or less to the soldier on the battlefield in the game's standards? More or less? freak:

Legends

Hole in the large rock off shore
 

Yeah that one, I had never seen it before on any picture current or historical and I have visited just about every relevent web site about 20 or so.
In acouple of historical pictures I can see a vague dark shadow but no conclusive evidence. It wasn't until I took a look at the map started by Superkat that the possiblitity became known to me.
Currently I have two versions of that rock for when I am convinced either way.
Legend, I am out to be as realistic as possible within the constraint of producing a playable map as you can see from my pics.
I am writing to several sites to see if they can provide further pictures and info especially on the construction of the various types of bunker especially the Fire control bunker at the pointe for which I can find few usable pictures.
I have constructed a close copy of the original gun casemates, several of which were still underconstruction.
I have a good overall historical map of the general area and rough sites of trenches, mgs, aa, minefields, bunkers etc, the landing approach, the counter attacks etc
The interior of bunkers has been a stumbling block too as each is different, currently I am building from guess work and radiant constraints
What is in the pictures is just the start of the map, natureally I will try to extend the water into the horizon, I am using fog/farplane though not too much as it affects game speed.
There will be an aera to the rear of boacge which will effectively be a second map.
Ropes and ladders are a stumbling block at the moment too.
The top of the cliffs will be designed further to be open terrain back with sufficient cover to allow progress throught trenches, short dashes etc.
Hopefully too the access to the rear area which be a triggered event that includes a change in the respawning areas, a subject that needs alot of consideration to reprevent respawn camping/rushing/sniping etc to reasonable limits, we all know how omaha is hated for that aspect..
Including an aspect not often mention the respawn of german behind you when you've struggled most of the way thru only to get shot in a split second by a lucky respawn....grrrrrrr

Game play is very important! Simple but effective design to start with, then add the candy in later versions when you have a successful map. remember after play loads of issues will arise that need fixing so don't get stuck on the unnecessary upfront.
People are more and more collaborating on maps which is the way to go hopefully.

wow... this is gonna be good! cant wait for it to be out! but of course, take your time

Yeah it's about a quarter of a mile I think, I might try and make it bigger, but I want to make sure if I have too many brushes or not (means if I have too many textures, FPS is gonna be in the shitcan, etc. hake: ).

Oddball, would you be willing to compare and contrast our maps when I'm done? eek:

If Oddball can, we'll make some sort of name for all of us, cuz a lot of this shit wasn't only done by myself, and about 40% of mappers look at the readme (not including me, lol). Basicly, we'll have a name that'll be on the loading screen; it doesn't sound to good if we say "Pointe du Hoc, By Havoc_covaH, Legend, Superkat, and Oddball.woof". So trow in some idears for our group name. cool:

Havoc_covaH

Name Suggestions...
 

How bout "Eazy Co." or "Easy Co."? Or "De Hocs"? :) or maybe even the proud 65th........ "THE BORINQUENEERS"!!!(Who were legends in Korea)
Maybe "The Green Eyed Boys", for any of you that knows what that means?....... or

"Godsmith"- Makers (in this case, of war maps) that are so skilled, they can make the "the gods"
"Veteran 8th" (ot whatever number)
"Screaming Eagles"-Airborne Division in Normandy
"Havoc's Howlers"- This is from the old war comics, Sgt.Fury and the Howling Commandos
"Eagle Eyes" -Expression for talented sniper, "Eagle Eye", good sight
"GoW" (Gods of War)
Even though some of these may seem cheesy, they are just ideas everyone cool:

Legend

group name continued...
 

OR the
++++"Bravados,"
++++"the boys of Company C," (or a,b,d,e)
++++"Los Tres Amigos"-very unlikely though
++++"Amerikanisch Judgend" - not sure if spelling is correct, but it means "American youth" in German
++++"Hell's Angels", or "Killer Angels" biggrin: biggrin: biggrin:

Legend

Hi
 

Sure mate we can compare, I suspect you'll be finished before me though as every step I can is being researched for Historical, i wont say accuracy but how about spirit?
As for names the Official Name for my map is 'Operation Bigot', the historical code name for the assault.

One of the reasons the assault on Omaha nearly failed was the necessity of launching from 12 miles out for fear of the guns on Pointe Du Hoc thus the urgency and dire need for the operation. If the recon had revealed that a) half the guns were not installed yet and the aerial photos misled planners by mistake telegraph poles for the shadows of the guns and the those guns in place prior to Dday were moved to the rear area only the night before. The impact of losing the DD tank might have been avoided, the drain of the long appraoch to Omaha could have been shortened and better off shore support and quicker response might have resulted.

The importance of the PDH assault is often overlooked when compared to the scale of the near disaster of Omaha, an numbers involved in the other assaults, that it proved on the day less vital than was thought has removed much of the focus upon the key event, as key as the airbourne landings at Pegasus and elsewhere were in securing the actual ability of forces to land at all.

names ummmmmmmm off the top of my head.......

Rudder's Run
Rudder's Rangers
Op 155 Allied Assault
Op 155
Six Keys to DDay
Six Keys
Up and Over (Eddie Wearing LOL u youngsters won't know what that means)

....By the Allied Assault Forum Cooperative INC.

Climb to Victory

.......BY the PDH.AAFI

200ft up into Hell .......the actual height of cliff ecapes me at the moment!


Oddball .......Woof! Woof!

"just think them positive waves Baby"



[img]http://www.oddball.woof.dsl.pipex.com/images/COVER.jpg[/img]

Hard to make up my mind on names. We could just put HLSO (the beginning letters of our AA names). Or we could have a name from the 2nd Ranger Btln. that stormed PTH. Maybe something corporate type like the International Battle Recreation Team (IBRT). We won't have to worry about the names till we get done with the map, but I was just letting everyone know to write them down for a little work of your own. Don't come up with anything too offtopic like Los Tres Amigos, lol biggrin: (I'm not hackin on ya or anything, Legend, you understand cool: ).

Yep, a lot of stuff got f***ed up during the invasion. But recon and all that wasn't as advanced as it is now, which is why we have been "successful" in large scale military campaigns since the Gulf War.
Youngsters? You in college or somethin, Oddball?

Superkat and friends, evil:

anyway do u have any screnshots and I thought that a good idea would to have the players start in a higgins boat just like in Omaha in SP, so then it would really realistic and kick ass. ed:

zooka:

My own Multiplayer problems...
 

In multiplayer, on gamespy, I sometimes experience problems like game crashes, and my slow connection. Is it because I have listed a wrong connection type, and what can I do about the crashing? Please help...friends

Legend

LOL College.......hehehe
 

Mature student possibly lets just say I remember watching Neil Armstrong step onto the moon live.

POINTE DU HOC
Ranger Monument

To reach the Pointe du Hoc Ranger Monument (15), now maintained by the American Battle Monuments Commission, follow the CD direction signs west along D 514 to the car park outside the monument (8 km).

The Pointe du Hoc today retains much of its battlefield character because of the destruction left by the rain of bombs and shells the Allies unleashed to neutralize this rocky point. The much feared battery was bombed three times before D Day, then hit from the air again that morning. The battleships Texas and Arkansas battered the area with their 14- and 12-inch guns just after dawn. Later in the morning, the destroyer Satterlee saturated the position with her 5-inch guns in direct support of the Rangers. This concentration of fire left craters and ruined casemates which forty years have yet to erase.

From the barbed-wire fence along the cliff top, you can look down the hundred-foot cliff to the east beach where three companies of the 2d Ranger Battalion, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel James E. Rudder, landed on D Day. Their mission was to scale the cliff, then silence the six 155-mm howitzers thought to threaten the landing operations on both American beaches.

The Rangers came in forty minutes late in ten LCA's, trailed by four DUKW's and two supply boats. They lost one of each boat type on the run in. The LCA's were equipped with rocket-propelled grappling hooks which were fired as the boats grounded under the cliff. Despite small-arms fire, improvised mines, and grenades lobbed from above, the Rangers used their rope and aluminum ladders to scale the cliff within five minutes of landing. Ironically, they found the casemates empty of guns, which days before had been moved to new positions further inland. Later that morning, a patrol found the 155s unguarded and spiked them. Colonel Rudder then set up a defensive perimeter and waited for reinforcements. "Located Pointe du Hoc," he managed to signal V Corps that afternoon, "mission accomplishedÑneed ammunition and reinforcementÑmany casualties." Those reinforcements were to have come from Rangers of the 2d and 5th battalions waiting offshore. Because Rudder's assault was late, the Rangers assumed that it had failed and landed instead on Omaha Beach. It took them two days to fight their way overland to Rudder's relief. By then, his force had been reduced to about ninety effectives. Rudder received the Distinguished Service Cross for continuing to lead his men, although twice wounded.




by Michael H. Frederick and Joseph F. Masci for World War II Magazine

On the morning of June 6, 1944, 10 landing craft, assault vessels (LCAs) containing three Ranger companies headed for Pointe-du-Hoc to undertake one of D-Day's most dangerous missions. The Allied seaborne effort was to be preceded by the Rangers, whose objective was to prevent wholesale slaughter by a German battery whose guns could be zeroed in on the American landing beaches.

Not all went according to plan for the Rangers in Normandy, however. Much of the equipment that had been perfected specifically for the assault did not stand up to the rigors of combat. Each LCA contained six rocket launchers that were supposed to propel grappling hooks and ropes over the edge of the cliff. But the ropes became soaked from the heavy seas and coated with slimy clay during the pre-invasion bombardment, and many failed to reach the cliff top when fired. Even those that did reach the top were slippery and hard to climb. That the Rangers were able to scale the cliff under those conditions and under fire is a tribute to their excellent conditioning and competitive drive.

Another disappointment on D-Day was the ladder-equipped DUKW (amphibious truck) that Staff Sgt. Jack Kuhn had worked on. The idea was to drive the DUKWs onto the shale beach at low tide and raise extension ladders right to the edge of the cliff. One DUKW included a dual Lewis machine-gun mount at the top of the ladder, which was to be raised while the DUKW was still offshore and spray the summit with automatic fire while the Rangers were scaling the cliff. Unfortunately, the choppy seas caused considerable yaw to the DUKW, resulting in Sergeant William Stivison's fire having practically no effect on the German defenders. The pre-invasion bombardment had left enormous craters across the beach along the waterline, making it impossible for other DUKWs to come ashore.

In the end, it was the training, courage and tenacity of the Rangers that carried the day. Their experience emphasized the need to concentrate on the basic infantry principles of fire and maneuver and to avoid complicated technical experiments. Less than two hours after the Ranger assault, the guns near Pointe du Hoc were inoperable.

can't really suggest anything Legend
 

Without more specific info.

Where do I find the screenshots, Superkat? I'm not even sure if I did it right. I already put some allied spawn points inside the H boats. I could possibly make some DUKW's, but I doubt it, lol.

What kind of connection do you have, Legend (56k, DSL, CABLE, etc.)? Mine crashes too, and my ping occasionally spikes; not sure why. Maybe we have too many pk3's or something. It's crashed so many times that when the sound of the disk being read stops, I immediately curse the computer, then it brings up a little cute icon saying "We're sorry, the program you were running has shut down, please tell Microsoft this problem..." or some shit like that. It usually happened with too many players, so I started joining rooms of 18 to 23 players; that should lower the your chances of crashing. Slow connection may be due to blood mods, sound mods, basicly mods, maybe you have Norton Anti-Virus running automatically, phone is ringing, or you're simply SOL (Shit Out of Luck).

Oh I see, mature student cool: , I'm like one of the few at my school. But anyway, whether or not you're older or younger than us, I still have respect for you. Good, now that I know where the car in the parking lot is, I won't get lost in Pointe du Hoc! I saw this bad ass model of the Omaha Beach fortifications; this thing shows almost everything in a nutshell. [img]omahadiagram[1][/img].

Havoc_covaH

connection
 

Havoc, I have cable connection. Maybe the reason why this is happening to me is that I'm running MoH:AA multiplayer on my older computer, instead of my newer, bigger one. I have to do this because my good, or newer and bigger computer, doesn't have internet. cry:

Legend

Havoc
 

just noticed your in Moscow, wow!
I went there on a school trip in 1976 LOL Leningrad and Sochi too.

Worry about the frills after the basics of the map are done lads.
That link to Omaha fortifcatios isn't working just paste in the url.
I have recently done alot of work on the rear area orchard, which I am basin roughly on the Band of brothers scene where they assault the guns off Utah beach.
So although I dont think there were trenches in the orchard I have put some there to add to the game play.

Completed 90% Fire Contol Bunker.

Need: ladders/ropes for angled cliff....tricky
personnel bunker/ammo bunker
Farm house area
Sorting the ocean textures..tricky to get right, need a wave action with, beach run up.
Bocage roads need tidying.

pictures
 

[img]http://www.oddball.woof.dsl.pipex.com/images/PDH/FCBnTrenches.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.oddball.woof.dsl.pipex.com/images/PDH/orchard.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.oddball.woof.dsl.pipex.com/images/PDH/gundefender.jpg[/img]

ed: wow

Whoa, was it just me, or was AA.com down for 2 or 3 weeks??
Legend, is there any way you can get your cable provider to give you a cable router or something to connect both your computers to the net without costing money? How old is your computer and what is the operating system (windows 95, 98, 2000, XP, NT, etc.)? How big is your RAM?
omahadiagram[1]
After looking at those screens, it's quite obvious to me that Oddball started a while before I did, lol. Yeah, I'm in Moscow, where you're lucky to have a connection like I do (depending on your social class). Sometimes I go to the US for certain reasons.
Oddball, you can make the cliff itself climbable, then when you make your rope, perhaps it will look like the player is climbing the rope. Might not be a good idea to make your rope without poles running horizontally down it, similar to a ladder. This is because when the player climbs the rope, it doesn't look right. Yes, I know the ropes were shot from rockets, but you can make those ones unable to climb and just have the ladders and the second type of ladder I mentioned, climbable (hope I'm making sense). I can't believe I didn't think of that idea myself.
Add some sandbags where your cliff is. And add some MG42s and dead germans.
Hehe, I saved my time on bunkers by downloading some prefabs. I think my map is too small. I stretched my cliff further down, and now I have to deal with wide open leaks.

Damn
 

Damn Oddball, you rock. I can't wait to play it, if I ever can. I haven't been on in about 2-3 weeks, because I just, for some reason, couldn't reach this site. It might have been that they were doing some maintenence (spelling?) here, but I'm not sure. Any of you guys had this problem?

UPDATE
 

FOR HEAVENS SAKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!Grrrrrrr taken about 20 attempts to get this post up, AA is still buggy since the repair.

Yeah a real problem, been experimenting for ages with meshes, brushes and all sorts. I hope to get ScorpioMidget to help out eventually but the main event really happen once up top anyhow.

Had some delays as I checked the original assault maps and noticed a trench infront of the fire control bunker, which I then moved.... now its a nightmare trying to rework the LOD terrain to the new bunker position.
Its really cost me more time than it was worth several weeks

Yeah AA has been down for a couple of weeks.

If you guys want to help heres what I need to get moving:

1. Scripting the Objectives

2. Personel bunker

3. Ammo bunker ( i hope to make this explodable along with 88 shells too so if camper sit the objectives they are in for a nasty....double edged though when allies get there)

4. May try to incorporate Scorpios map linking and extend the map into 3 medium sized ones in the future rather than 1 big compromise version

5. Need good rope system
ps already have MGs and stuff top of cliff

6. Damaged French Farm...not started anyone interested

7. Objective area nearly finished similar to Brecourt Manor assault in BOB ;-)
running along trenches firing is great fun

8. Optimizing map for fps eg Leafgroups area-portals detailing etc

9. Customized skybox only Terragen crashes my system completely grrrrrrr

10. Ocean texture still need sort properly half resolved

BTW if you want a much better look to your game great weps and greman skins bith MP and SP I recommend Jojimbo's SP mod bloody excellent!!!!!!!
and 1944weaponskins2.0.pk3 nice realistic skins

Just to show you whats been happening here are two slide shows, as you can see I have a BOT version running, the screen shots are not the latest edit and textures have been fixed. I will release both MP and SPDM versions eventually.
PS I have a single player DM bot map that was my first map made about 3/4 months ago on my site

single Player map:
[url:a185e]http://www.oddball.woof.dsl.pipex.com/MOHAA/index.htm[/url:a185e]

Older Map version Slide show
 

[img]http://www.oddball.woof.dsl.pipex.com/images/PointeDuHoc.gif[/img]

Further on slide show
 

[img]http://www.oddball.woof.dsl.pipex.com/images/NewPointeDuHoc.gif[/img]

NEW SCREENS!
 

GOOD NEWS!
I've fixed comiling problems and I got some screenies for all!
At first I had a problem with lighting but I fixed the script stuff.
I've also put in some fog, but that unfortunately messes up some textures in the map.
I can't figure out why the ocean waves on the right side of the map are so huge.
[img]PDH4[/img]
[img]PDH5[/img]
[img]PDH6[/img]
[img]PDH7[/img]
[img]PDH8[/img]
[img]PDH9[/img]
[img]PDH10[/img]
[img]PDH11[/img]
[img]PDH12[/img]
Hope you guys can see em'. Let me know if you can't.
Btw, I have added an operational cannon that you can shoot on the map bigzooka: .
I also added a fan, but the switch that turns it on isn't working.

your URLs look like this
http://pdh4/

r3mix

jeez, I never seem to get it right...

Screen Shot
 

biggrin: So are you gonna get us a screen shot Havoc? I can't wait to see one. eatthis:

is saw some screens how do you make those camo-net hanging in a bow?

alot of patience LOL
 

Just take practice using mesh vertices, like the LOD vertices.
Alot of trial and error.
Make a mesh from a brush, I usually use 5x5, then press v when mesh selected and plug away.

My maps is being delayed by a major pain in the ass Radiant, has screwed my last few versions and I have to keep restarting. The more you edit a map the more errors seem to creep in from all the saving. Weird stuff starts happening brushes move slightly, LOD verticies start spiking.
GGGGGGRRRRRRRRRR feel like I am editing the same thing over and over groundhog style. I even had to take the whole map apart and rebuilt it from them because of some weird no-existsnt doors that appeared from nowhere.
Can't say I have made much headway. I need to do some more rebuilding fixing stuff that was fine before, like textures that have suddenly gone nasty.

Guys...

You're doing great! This looks like it's gonna be one of the best user-made maps ever! Take your time to get it right. Even thought I'm not a mapper (never was, never will be..) I'd like to point out just one thing: The bunker on the edge of the cliff (oddballs post the 8th of september) looks a bit like it's "floating" on the rocks there. Like a flat object placed on a bumpy terrain, if you know what I mean?

Anyways... I'd love to take part in this awsome project. You should have a website for this project, which is what I'm offering to do. Launch it as the map is released. Let me know if you're interested.

-bender

reply to last post
 

Currently its a one man project, me, another guy Havoc is doing his own map version.
This was us swapping ideas and info but no cooperation in building.
Your point about the Fire Contol Bunker position on cliffs, actually its been moved back to insert a trench in front of it.
Its also an aerial spectator shot that makes it look so 'stuck out' on a pre alpha build. From a players view it doesn't look so obvious.
Also its fairly close to its historical postion given the limitations of building with this engine and the restraints on map size and playablity.
I will try an post a shot of the actual bunker as seen to day, its now a Rangers memorial and fairly intact.

So how far off is this map being completed and ready for Beta Testing?

good question
 

can't really answer an exact date, I want to get the map as realistic as possible with a playable fps and fairly novel layout for a custom map.
Also I want to avoid the Omaha effect with spawn campers, cliff jumpers etc so planning has to be good. I could have been close to releasing a beta soon but I have decide to do a major overhaul of the map to clean it up and improve it in several ways.
I hope to make it so that players have many options which require realistic action and not so much of a rush and spray.
I want player to need to cooperate and give the teams equal chances.

So...
 

So how about Havocs's map, the main point of this "thread"? How's your map goin Havoc?

Well atleast AA.com is working better now. Now I don't have to have lunch whenever an image loads, lol.

I'm havin the same type problems as you Oddball. But the most mine bottling one is that when I compile my map, it'll be say 20% done and it says it has about 6 hours left to compile, I go to sleep wich is about 9 or less hours, and the verdammed thing is 22% and has 12 hours left! Now for some reason, I have to double check the location of the MOHAA directory on MBuilder just to compile something.

Another problem: I can't seem to post images on here so I try to send them to somebody else; cheap yahoo says one verdammed tga image is too verdammed big, and I can't transfer it to their server either because it gives me a stupid verdammed excuse saying it's too verdammed big. VERDAMMIT.

While I think of ideas for the map, I make smaller maps. Not that I take my whole time on them, but I only do it just to clear my mind or if something's wrong with my PDH map. Here's a few good ones: Tunnel Rats, City in the Sand, House2House, City Siege, and Leningrad.

If I for some reason decide to quit my PDH project and give it to Oddball, I will start a Leningrad project.

Overall, beta testing for my map should be ready in about 3 weeks or less. I've tested the map myself only about 4 times, until I got the problem above in the second paragraph.

This prefab site may give you a boost on your map, Oddball
[url:0b08d]http://www.wulfman07.de/nukex14/index.php[/url:0b08d]
Just about the whole site is in German, but I think you'll find your way around, lol.

Keep cool guys, when the beta comes out I think you'll enjoy (or should I say that later?).

Thanks Havoc
 

couldn't connect to your link though.
I have many times come near to giving up too, its a hard project harder than most I think more than people realise.

Verdammed links! Communists! Cheap vodka!

Ya, towns are easier to make, but when you have a big cliff penninsula with the exposed wilderness and lots of bunkers, put on your seatbelt.
How did you make your cliff?

BTW, nice weapon skins, bender. I didn't download them but they look good.
I'm thinkin if we all might make a good mapping team. It's just a thought, but this map(s) me and Oddball are doing has made us a little famous. If we do create a team, bender could probably do the website.
I'm currently waiting another "20 hours, 12 minutes, and 29 seconds" for compiling to finish hake: sleep: .