affirmative action is racist too, fuck that equality shit, lets put minorities first! hake:

many minorities are not direct decendents of slaves-and there have been many NORTHERN generals owning slaves. lincoln didnt free slaves, only slaves in the south (not the border states)


i dont think the naacp speeks for all minorites

[quote="ED!":35f80]Affirmative action unfortunately is a neccesity in this great country of ours. Yes it would be nice if every did treat everyone else equally, but gosh gee willikers - we dont. And thus laws ENFORCING equality come into play. Alot of you seem to be operating under the belief that AA is the cause of anger from whites to minorities. Hardly. Take away AA, and then see the equality levels drop.

As far as CA being 49% white, where the hell do you think we are located? And whites are STILL the majority race here.[/quote:35f80]

Sadly, affirmative action actually ENFORCES inequality.

Michigan State University give black people 20 points towards their admission, just because they are black. If a black person gets lower scores on SAT's and has taken easier classes at an easier High school then a white student, Michigan State still often times chooses the Black student.

How does this seem like equality? You would have to be stupid and blindly liberal to think that affirmative action was equality.

Affirmitave action does not ENFORCE anything but more racism, but this time, against white people.

Also, if a black person gets affirmative action to get into college, then also receives it to get a job, then that black person has acheived everything he has done not because of himself, or anything that he had done, but instead because of his skin color. This IS NOT equality. Instead of making color an obselete factor, it actually makes it the most important factor.

All you really have to do is think about it.

[/b]

[quote="[LoNe R@nGeR]":958de][quote="ED!":958de]Affirmative action unfortunately is a neccesity in this great country of ours. Yes it would be nice if every did treat everyone else equally, but gosh gee willikers - we dont. And thus laws ENFORCING equality come into play. Alot of you seem to be operating under the belief that AA is the cause of anger from whites to minorities. Hardly. Take away AA, and then see the equality levels drop.

As far as CA being 49% white, where the hell do you think we are located? And whites are STILL the majority race here.[/quote:958de]

Sadly, affirmative action actually ENFORCES inequality.

Michigan State University give black people 20 points towards their admission, just because they are black. If a black person gets lower scores on SAT's and has taken easier classes at an easier High school then a white student, Michigan State still often times chooses the Black student.

How does this seem like equality? You would have to be stupid and blindly liberal to think that affirmative action was equality.

Affirmitave action does not ENFORCE anything but more racism, but this time, against white people.

Also, if a black person gets affirmative action to get into college, then also receives it to get a job, then that black person has acheived everything he has done not because of himself, or anything that he had done, but instead because of his skin color. This IS NOT equality. Instead of making color an obselete factor, it actually makes it the most important factor.

All you really have to do is think about it.

[/b][/quote:958de]

Never said Affirmative Action was the equivalant to racial equality. However, without it rampant unequality would be more prevalant than it is now. Do you mean to say that white americans - ALL WHITE AMERICANS - on their own can be responsible enough to not allow their own prejudices get in the way of what is right?

That is a huge amount of confidence and faith you have in the American populace.

[quote="ED!":4af9f]

Never said Affirmative Action was the equivalant to racial equality. However, without it rampant unequality would be more prevalant than it is now. Do you mean to say that white americans - ALL WHITE AMERICANS - on their own can be responsible enough to not allow their own prejudices get in the way of what is right?

That is a huge amount of confidence and faith you have in the American populace.[/quote:4af9f]

Ed, you once again cut through all the bullshit and get to the point.

I agree with Noticus.

by the way boner its MICHIGAN not MICHIGAN STATE, because of affirmative action I didnt get into Michigan

[quote="ED!":d5748] Do you mean to say that white americans - ALL WHITE AMERICANS - on their own can be responsible enough to not allow their own prejudices get in the way of what is right?[/quote:d5748]

All this gets is a... hake: .

[quote="ED!":37ec0]
Never said Affirmative Action was the equivalant to racial equality. However, without it rampant unequality would be more prevalant than it is now. Do you mean to say that white americans - ALL WHITE AMERICANS - on their own can be responsible enough to not allow their own prejudices get in the way of what is right?

That is a huge amount of confidence and faith you have in the American populace.[/quote:37ec0]

You said that affirmative action enforces equality, therefore suggesting that it makes people equal. BUT it does make inequality more prevalent, just not in an obvious way. It may seem to make minorities more equal, but in turn makes whites less equal. This IS making inequality more prevalant, just in a different manner. And all americans are not racists, vast majorities are not. Hardly any white people are seriously rascist anymore, or at least do not act on it. Also, most of these racist people do not work in places like admissions offices at universities or in large companies, and thus racism does not really affect these processes. Also, black people are racist also. You hear "cracker" as much as "nigger" these days. Just as many minorities are rascists as majorities.

You just do not give ENOUGH confidence in the American populace

[quote="Old Reliable":a4bb0]by the way boner its MICHIGAN not MICHIGAN STATE, because of affirmative action I didnt get into Michigan[/quote:a4bb0]

sorry, i stand corrected, but still my point is the same.

sorry about you're situation also. that would suck ass

[quote:2554d]You said that affirmative action enforces equality, therefore suggesting that it makes people equal. BUT it does make inequality more prevalent, just not in an obvious way. It may seem to make minorities more equal, but in turn makes whites less equal. This IS making inequality more prevalant, just in a different manner. And all americans are not racists, vast majorities are not. Hardly any white people are seriously rascist anymore, or at least do not act on it. Also, most of these racist people do not work in places like admissions offices at universities or in large companies, and thus racism does not really affect these processes. Also, black people are racist also. You hear "cracker" as much as "nigger" these days. Just as many minorities are rascists as majorities.

You just do not give ENOUGH confidence in the American populace[/quote:2554d]

Affirmative action does what the majority of americans will not do - it attempts to even out the unequality that had become a way of life. You still have yet to adress the basic question - can Americans be trusted to not let an instinctful prejudice affect the way they conduct themselves? That IS the question.

Not whether or not AA promotes reverse discrimination. Not what the percentage of whites to minorities there are. The question is, do you believe that WITHOUT affirmative action minorities have ANY kind of chance of living in this nation?

If you sincerely believe that those in positions of power are not affected by the "good ol boys" mentality - I applaud your faith in your peers my friend.

As I have already said, in its current form, AA is not perfect. But at the very least it means that a minority looking for a chance will be more likely to get it. Sad that it must come at the expense of a majority but there it is ladies and gentleman.

ED has a point, and that is this:

The typical, white American is unable to see things in the same manner as the typical white American. This is due to a number of reasons, but I'll only address a few.

First of all, police brutality. This is probably one of the most ridiculous stigmas in existance. Police departments are required to record the race of the individual involved in any incident. These numbers are usually compiled at year-end to evaluate problems with racial profiling. They can look at any officer's records, and see what percentage white, blacks or whatever constitute of that officer's incidents. IA then investigates anyone with an unusually high % of one race or another, and dismisses them where necessary. Now, there is a stigma amongst the black community that police officers harass blacks, particularly males, without proper reason. Now yes, this does occur, I'm not refuting that. However, it is very important to remember that, according to statistics, a black male living in a lower-class neighbor is fifteen times more likely to commit a violent crime than an asian or hispanic, and twenty-two times more likely than a white male. So, in these lower-class neighborhoods, the caution shown by police officers is necessary to protect the community.

Also note that 42 of the 50 neighborhoods in America with the highest violent crime rate are predominantly african-american. Three are predominantly white, two are hispanic, and two are Asian. It should be noted that the 2nd and 3rd spots belong to an Asian and Caucasion neighborhood respectively.

I was going to address more issues, but I just don't feel like typing it all out at the moment.

However, please keep in mind that the average white male is NOT a racist, and associates with many peoples of color. I, a conservative white male, am not a racist. But I am repeatedly infuriated by people who want to label me as such just because of the color of my skin. I am sick and fucking tired of these ignorant assholes like Jesse Jackson and Al fucking Sharpton trying to bolden the race lines and incite a national war of races. Fuck them, and fuck every single ignorant person who wants to cry racism because they just aren't as good at something as someone else. It's time this country spits out its pacifier and stops catering to the people who mandate political correctness. I, as a white male and manager of a restaurant, am a victim of racism every single day. Every single fucking day. But you know what? I don't assume every black person who applies for a job is a racist, nor are they all. But you know what? 4 out of 5 are. And I still don't generalize. I still give everyone an equal chance. Even though I hear the slurs behind my back. So you know what? Don't fucking generalize the white race as being racist and uncapable of viewing people equally until you can get your own fucking people to get their shit in line first.

And for reference, I would have voted for Colin Powell had he run for President, twice if he replaced Bush.

Thank you and good night.

Second white American should be black American..

Thanks Simo oOo:

CAPTAIN sorry but that's not the point I am trying to make. The point I am trying to make is that those people who make the decisions, those people who determine really what equality means, cant be counted on to make fair and unbiased decisions. And I didn't once try to single out blacks in this - you all keep on coming back to that.

As far as police brutality is concerned, come on now.

My point is very simply this;

Without "AA" and laws against discrimination, the average AMERICAN can NOT be counted on 100% to always act in the best interests of equality.

So only you have a complete understanding of the "average" American? Why is it that just about every other person's understanding of the "average" American is incorrect?

[quote="SW-14":fc2e7]So only you have a complete understanding of the "average" American? Why is it that just about every other person's understanding of the "average" American is incorrect?[/quote:fc2e7]

Not even close.

However, for most of the arguments to work in this thread, it has to be an accepted belief that the level of racial prejudice is at a low level that makes it possible for equality to thrive in this country with government interference.

I dont see it, and news reports seem to indicate otherwise as well.

While I agree that your views on government officials may be correct, I simply cannot agree that the average American is a racist.

[quote="Captain Noctis Aeternus":ac374]While I agree that your views on government officials may be correct, I simply cannot agree that the average American is a racist.[/quote:ac374]

I dont think the average American is racist. Not at all. Most of us have hidden prejudices that probably might never come out except in a situation where race is brought to the forefront. I mean, if most of us werent racist would we even have most of the problems we do today?

Everyone is in someway racist

[quote="Old Reliable":99c2e]by the way boner its MICHIGAN not MICHIGAN STATE, because of affirmative action I didnt get into Michigan[/quote:99c2e]

Meh.....Blue sucks.

No I dont think the Confederate Flag should be put up. As Joe said earlier keep the United States *United*

[quote="ED!":415a0]Without "AA" and laws against discrimination, the average AMERICAN can NOT be counted on 100% to always act in the best interests of equality.[/quote:415a0]

So you are saying that AA makes white racists less racist? No, it just makes more whites angry.

Maybe you are trying to say that the white people in charge of admissions and what not are not to be trusted. This is crazy, most colleges are notorious for being radically liberal, they want as much diversity as they can get. For colleges, more diversity is better than test grades nowadays. This is why colleges and universities use AA.

If this isn't what you mean, then you need to be more specific. "act in the best interests of equality." does this mean that you think that, in fact, more white people are racist, but are made to be not racist simply because there are laws against discrimination. No, that can't be it, that doesn't make sense at all.

[quote="ED!":5198d]However, for most of the arguments to work in this thread, it has to be an accepted belief that the level of racial prejudice is at a low level that makes it possible for equality to thrive in this country with government interference.

I dont see it, and news reports seem to indicate otherwise as well.[/quote:5198d]

We don't need government interference to govern beleifs of some people, even if they do choose to be racist.

[quote:380d8]So you are saying that AA makes white racists less racist? No, it just makes more whites angry.[/quote:380d8]

Do you think MORE angry or LESS angry than minorities who before AA were disqualified from jobs/schools/medical coverage because of race?


[quote:380d8]Maybe you are trying to say that the white people in charge of admissions and what not are not to be trusted. This is crazy, most colleges are notorious for being radically liberal, they want as much diversity as they can get. For colleges, more diversity is better than test grades nowadays. This is why colleges and universities use AA.[/quote:380d8]

You start to say that college admissions boards on their own were eager to create a diverse educational environment, and then contradict that by saying BECAUSE of AA they have a diverse group.

And not all colleges are these liberal free thinking places you'd like to think. Take a look at the rise in minority attendance, and you'll see a relation between it and AA.

[quote:380d8]We don't need government interference to govern beleifs of some people, even if they do choose to be racist.[/quote:380d8]

You do when the racism of one man impedes on the right to live of another. Or do you think business/colleges/hospitals/schools SHOULD be able to choose who they want based on race?

[quote="ED!":84e00] Or do you think business/colleges/hospitals/schools SHOULD be able to choose who they want based on race?[/quote:84e00]
Definetly, this would make them pick the more qualified candidate. This seems like an obvious choice. Maybe the "qualified candidates" are not going to be black, but then maybe they should try to become that candidate. It's quite simple really.

[quote:08267]Definetly, this would make them pick the more qualified candidate. This seems like an obvious choice. Maybe the "qualified candidates" are not going to be black, but then maybe they should try to become that candidate. It's quite simple really.[/quote:08267]

THeyd pick the more qualified candidate based on RACE? Uhmmm ok.

For this to work, than it would mean that 100% of those decisions were not racially motivated. Can you honestly say that would happen?

I live in South Carolina. The flag was removed from
atop the State House and now sits in some memorial park
dedicated to the civil war where it belongs. While it was
part of the civil war, it's not part of modern day society.
It didn't belong on the State House. This whole flag issue is ridiculous.
It makes the South look like uneducated back wood hillbillies,
that won't recongize black people as equals. This isn't true.
Southerners get a bad enough "wrap" as it is, without all this
childish shit. The only people that were here in SC protesting
were 40'ish white guys with poor up-bringings and very little education.
They don't speak for the silent majority who really could give
a fuck less what happened. The civil war isn't a proud moment to remember.
As for Georgia, let the people vote, if they vote to have it back,
so be it. That's democracy, and that's coming from a conservative republican. biggrin:

[quote="ED!":93602][quote:93602]Definetly, this would make them pick the more qualified candidate. This seems like an obvious choice. Maybe the "qualified candidates" are not going to be black, but then maybe they should try to become that candidate. It's quite simple really.[/quote:93602]

THeyd pick the more qualified candidate based on RACE? Uhmmm ok.

For this to work, than it would mean that 100% of those decisions were not racially motivated. Can you honestly say that would happen?[/quote:93602]

OK, did you read my post? The whole thing was about NOT picking people because of race, but because of their qualifications. I also, I do believe that for these situations, (college admissions and jobs) MOST would not be motivated by racists. I do beleive that it is not 100%.

Affirmative Action is not the way to fix this. If a minority thinks he is not getting a job or getting deferred from a college or university, then he should be able to appeal to some sort of special commity so that they may further reveiw the situation. But, we can't keep doing what we are doing now. We cannot continue to give jobs and places in colleges to less qualified people simply because of what color they are. This is not fair to the minorities themselves and not fair to the majority.

That's all I have to say, I am not gonna check this topic any more, it feels like it's just getting useless. oOo: