The SS hated himmler. They thought he was a criminal and a weak minded bastard. They also hated the Gestapo. As one former soldier said "We were infiltrated by criminals and murderers and that the reputation we recevied wasnt always justified. We fought honourably".
To label everyone as Nazis in the SS or otherwise at that time is just plain stupid. Look at Rommel. A gentleman and great General. Certainly no Nazi.

I pity everyone who doesn't buy a good car just because it made in the country that had a war more than 55 years ago.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> it's so pathetic that the silent majority in germany sit back and let hitler do what he did to the world.

duty to their country...puhlease...

friggin rednecks [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to agree on that...


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http://vertigox.multimania.com/guillaume/geezosig.jpg

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jonesy-the-cat:
Hey man, I'm older than you and your sig looks pretty pro Nazi to me. I can't read German. Does that say something about you not being pro-Nazi? I can't read it and neither can almost anyone else here, primarily young american boys.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if you need it spelled out for you nOOb...go to our fricking site and scroll down a bit... http://www.geocities.com/moh_2ss/




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Mein Ehre Heisst Treue
Das Geminschaft
2nd SS Panzer Division
http://dba.gamepoint.net/images/klaus.jpg

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soda:
"My honour is called loyalty" (if my german is any good)
Then it says "Stinky Führer" "Nation Klaus"

Only the two SS make it dubious.

And for some reason, I can't understand what Telephone is writing.

But please, the Germans did not know that they were doing the "wrong" thing. They were fighting for their country. They wanted one great Germania (das dritte Reich). More than 7 years Hitler was the leader of Germany, before he started the war. He had time enough to convince the people of the necessity of a war (remember, opposition was forbidden). Propaganda movies, posters, audiographs were distributed amongst the people. The Germans only heard one opinion. It's a psychological phenomenae that people just "follow the flow" when there's only one opinion, and don't forget Hitler's mass meetings! It was a lot of social pressure, that is VERY difficult to withstand.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

go grab a german to english translation dictionary.....
Mein Ehre Heisst Treue=My loyalty is my Honor
Das Geminschaft = The Brotherhood
Rottenfuhrer = CORPORAL

no,your german Sucks....get a bit of information before you flame ME,Boy!

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Mein Ehre Heisst Treue
Das Geminschaft
2nd SS Panzer Division
http://dba.gamepoint.net/images/klaus.jpg

Colonel Hogan, thank you for explaining that.

I must reiterate that there were 2 kinds of SS. Himmler's Personal SS Extermination Squad, and the Waffen SS. The Waffen SS was like the Army Rangers. More elite than your standard grunt.

Not all of germany believed the Nazi propoganda. And for you idiots saying that all germans were nazis because they were stupid and easily brainwashed, I'd like to punch you in the face if you were here.

When you have a gun pointed at your face and the person on the other end says 'join the party, or you die.' You'll do exactly what others did: join and fight. Not for the glory of the party, but for you life, and the glory of your country. Its no different than what the U.S. is doing now. We're defending our pride and heritage.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freakaloin:
the majority of germans were not brainwashed, but they just sat back and did nothing.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They probably choose to do nothing so they would stay alive. Just think about that, you really think Hitler would have a problem killing a German who didn't want to be have?
Why not the blood wasn't actually on his hands!!!

http://www.geocities.com/helmistress/msdv.gif

[This message has been edited by [HEL]Mistress[DV] (edited January 11, 2002).]

Maybe so but you did any of you realise what a state Germany was in before the war? A billion marks for a loaf of bread and suddenly this guy comes to power and he says he has all the answers. Let me just say that if any of us were living in Germany at the time we a great many of us would be swept up in things like Hitler Youth, Waffen SS etc.

I remember watching that movie Nuremburg and when the top Nazi officer was on the stand and the prosecutor asked him "Who questioned the orders for the concentration camps?"
"No one living, only the yesmen are still alive"
So for Christ's sake you must understand that the German people were tricked into the Third Reich and any opposition to it was crushed.

They only good person who ever came out of the Nazi Party was Oskar Schindler.

So were all German soldiers Nazi's? I don't know but certainly they weren't all evil and fanatical but they were certainly tricked into the Third Reich.

Were the Germans the only bad guys? No. Invading Russians committed terrible atrocities such as rape, murder and looting. Hell, even Australian soldiers committed war crimes. For example after a platoon tied up some Japanese prisoners and moved on, the next platoon through bayonetted them and ran on.
So what is the difference between Freedom Fighters and the German soldiers? Not much.

Every human as the ability to do things they would never EVER think themselves capable of doing.

"When you have a gun pointed at your face and the person on the other end says 'join the party, or you die.' You'll do exactly what others did: join and fight. Not for the glory of the party, but for you life, and the glory of your country." -Patton


A single person with a gun CAN'T order 10 people to do something they belive with all their heart is worng.

Say for instance you are at a family reunion
and some guy comes up to you and say those people over there related to you by marriage
and inferior to you. Then he points a gun to your head and tells you to kill them. Would you? YOu would becuase you are a rat bastard and don't want to die. I wouldn't. I would fight him and probably die. But i died with with honor. the former of that scenerio is what happen in germany in the 1930s and 40s. It was NAZI GERMANY, not germany. The german people let it become nazi germany becuase they had no balls. And went along. IF this happened in a different country, it most likely would have been a civil war.

The German army nowadays aren't Nazis. But during the period MOH is trying to recreate they were. If you fought for something you didn't believe in, you are still guilty of the crime you are fighting for.


The germans in MOH are NAZIs!

You are talking a load of shit Joker. You would probaly shit in your pants if some one pointed a fake gun in your face.

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http://dba.gamepoint.net/images/lonewolf.jpg
5th SS Panzer Division Wiking

Here's how it works.
The govt. tells you to support nazism
They promote widespread shows of approval for it
If you're living in Germany, you will not stand against them because who's to say even your best friend, whom publicly is so pro-nazi, wouldnt turn you in if you confided in them your hatred for the regime.

Also, almost immediately after the Nazis came to power they began crushing all opposers. There was a group of students in the early 30s who were printing anti-nazi leaflets and giving them around....cant really remember what they were called..."White rose" or something. Anyways, this group of 20 year olds was entirely executed.


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http://dba.gamepoint.net/images/dicesigcuthigh_copy.jpg
I am your surrogate mother

No i'm not.. it's real sad that you think that I am.

It's about people's all surmounting fear and, because of this, their desperateness to escape this state...leads them to more willingly accept what is being forced into them. Same deal with communism almost...

Honestly I don't think I would have had the strength of character to stand against the Nazis if I were there during the regime and I doubt many other people would have. Maybe you're different man. This is why we must frequently remember those who stood against them.

Hitler was a manipulator.

The German people felt they had not actually been defeated in ww1, and that the treaty of versaice(sp) was cruel and unjust.

Germany went from broke to dirt poor during the depression, and in desperate times, desperate actions can be taken.

In general (generalizations are bad but whatever ;p) Germany was PISSED off about ww1, about being broke, and about the state of their country. Yes, they were ready to go to war, they wanted back parts of Germany which were lost after ww1, they wanted to anex the german speaking people of Poland that they felt were rightful nationals of Germany. This is what the GERMAN people wanted, Hitler wanted something completely different, and I doubt very few people outside of his inner circle actually knew the full scale of his plans.

The German people went willingly to war. Why not? In their opinion they were sold out by German royalty in ww1, they had ALOT of pride, and in a few short years had gone from the depths of the depression to being the single most powerful military power on the globe. However, Hitler manipulated that sence of nationalism to his own means, Western Europe was in his hands, and everyone knew it was only a matter of time untill Communist Russia and Fascist Germany butted heads. Better to do it while Russia is more or less still an agrarian economy, rather than an industrialized juggernaught it became during her war with Germany.

People are sheep, while the German people maybe initially only wanted to do x y and z. After each stunning victory, Hitler said just a little more, and they kept going. If the German people are guilty of anything in ww2, it is of denial, and of resentment. Denial of what the majority of people in Germany claim they knew nothing of, and resentment towards france and britain.

They said, it can't be true, and they pushed it to the backs of their minds while the Nazi party ruled by fear and propoganda.

One MUST differntiate between someone who VOTES for a political party, and being a registered MEMBER of that party, and people who believe 100% in the doctrine of that party. By and large the majority of Germans were not nazi's, they just voted that way because they felt THAT is the party that could lead them back to respect.

Sorry for the book, but when uneducated country bumpkins spout off about things they know absolutely jack about. Well, someone needs to come and lay it all out nice and clear ;p

Bye now

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by malarkey, which is slang for bullshit... that doesn't mean I'm trying to insult you... it is.
actuall if it wasnt for president woodro wilson ( yes an american) dreming up great ideas for the new germany, going all the way to versailles and then speak aload of crap, it was mainly he who shitted on germany. And yes the brits and the french were a bit harsh and of course they could see 25 years into the future knowing that a corporal in the german army would become leader of germany and take over europe and bring the world into war. tell me were was the main part of the great war thought.... texas, miami,pittsburgh... no in northern france... that part of the country was devastated so i think they had the right to be slightly p o'd.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The exact problem was the fact that the Froggies and the British were reacting on emotion. They were pissed and wanted to exact a sort of revenge on the Krauts. I can understand this, BUT... they should have gone with the 14 points. Why? You are probably demanding, because this should have been done by someone who was impartial, while the French and British suffered immense casualties and wanted reparation, they should have been thinking about what they were doing to that country, but were more or less blinded by the fact that they wanted to fuck Germany in the ass with a bayonet. While Wilson wasn't exactly predicting that this would happen, he at least wasn't thinking about emotion, and could understand that at one time or another the Allies would need to start commerce with the Krauts again. BUT again, the fact that Wilson didn't protest more does lend a hand to the U.S. helping to nourish the seeds that the Treaty planted.

i myself have no problems with germans, iIl know some old ppl who still wont drive a mercedes or any other german car, these ppl will never ever forget!

Nazi, germans, whatever u call them, it doesn’t really matter, some ppl’s here’s grandparents, who are prob still alive contributed one way or another to the mass murder of 6 million jews.

There is absolutely no way u can argue otherwise, unless u are a budding 'Hitler youth' and judging by some of yr sigs i don’t think im wrong!

It makes me laugh how u try and justify Hitler’s actions, and even blame other country’s US, UK, France.

reading some of yr posts, maybe having Nazi’s in a computer game is a bad idea after all!

It looks like Nazi's are getting back into fashion in a big way, and every kid jumping on the 'Nazi R cool' bandwagon, not really knowing any better!

BTW im not Jewish

^^That was one of the few stupid posts I've read so far in here.

Soda are u seriously suggesting that an army that fights for its country has political beliefs, a conscience and knows exactly about what it fighting for. The average grunt wouldnt have a clue what they are fighting for and probably doesnt know what the general populations beleifs are.
Think again Pal!

No, Hogan, I was not suggesting that. On the contrary, I was saying that they just did what everyone was doing.

Fubargrn, it's a shame that you do not know the translation of your own motto http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif I looked it up:

Ehre: honour, honesty
Treu: loyal, faithful

So "Mein Ehre heisst Treue" is "My honour is called loyalty" JUST AS I SAID!! I was wrong about Rottenführer, yes, but as I was saying, I didn't use a dictionary.

FuBarGrn is obviously a moron with an attitude. Not a good combination. So you are saying that your sig IS pro-Nazi? Because I don't speak German I am a newbie? What an idiot you are. Judging by the spastic way you write and the unprovoked offensive things you say, it is you who are the newbie, at dealing with people. That said, don't expect any more responses from me to your ridiculous comments.

well...whatever you were using is NOT a german LANGUAGE dictionary,just a german WORD dictionary,n00b...go here and see it for yourself....this sentence is the WAFFEN-SS MOTTO.. http://www.wssob.com/glossary.html#

you think I would make a n00b mistake and not know what I write???

oh,and why don't ya keep that link handy..since it seeems you need a tad bit of help......

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Mein Ehre Heisst Treue
Das Geminschaft
2nd SS Panzer Division
http://dba.gamepoint.net/images/klaus.jpg

[This message has been edited by FuBarGrn (edited January 12, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by FuBarGrn (edited January 12, 2002).]

*bumb*

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http://www.intermin.fi/suom/kuvat/lippu2.jpg

I will only say this : not all germans were
Nazis. (see Nazi and Fascist definitions on http://www.dictionary.com and then think
about it for as long as it takes you to
understand and come to this simple, evident
and logical conclusion)

Obvious, one would think.

[This message has been edited by SoLiDUS (edited January 12, 2002).]

When I translated it the first time, I didn't use a dictionary. I had no idea that you were so sensitive about it. But the second time, I did grab a dictionary. On the internet: http://dict.leo.org/ -> could come in handy http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Mein Ehre heisst Treue. My honour is called loyalty. It is wrongly translated on your site.

Plz, get over it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jonesy-the-cat:
FuBarGrn is obviously a moron with an attitude. Not a good combination. So you are saying that your sig IS pro-Nazi? Because I don't speak German I am a newbie? What an idiot you are. Judging by the spastic way you write and the unprovoked offensive things you say, it is you who are the newbie, at dealing with people. That said, don't expect any more responses from me to your ridiculous comments.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nooo....judging by the inane bullshit you call a post....not your understanding of the german language....and "Unprovoked"???

"Hey man, I'm older than you and your sig looks pretty pro Nazi to me. I can't read German. Does that say something about you not being pro-Nazi? I can't read it and neither can almost anyone else here, primarily young american boys."

Point # 1 posted by Jonesy-the-cat (you)

"
"My honour is called loyalty" (if my german is any good)
Then it says "Stinky Führer" "Nation Klaus"
Only the two SS make it dubious."

Point # 2 as posted by SODA

these were BOTH unprovoked attacks at ME....

"
There is absolutely no way u can argue otherwise, unless u are a budding 'Hitler youth' and judging by some of yr sigs i don’t think im wrong!

It makes me laugh how u try and justify Hitler’s actions, and even blame other country’s US, UK, France.

reading some of yr posts, maybe having Nazi’s in a computer game is a bad idea after all!

"It looks like Nazi's are getting back into fashion in a big way, and every kid jumping on the 'Nazi R cool' bandwagon, not really knowing any better!"

point # 3 as posted by telephone
a blatant attack on anyone in an AXIS clan/squad.INCLUDING ME!


"Fubargrn, it's a shame that you do not know the translation of your own motto I looked it up:

Ehre: honour, honesty
Treu: loyal, faithful

So "Mein Ehre heisst Treue" is "My honour is called loyalty" JUST AS I SAID!!"

point # 4
stupid response....had to comment about it....and I was even KIND enough to back MY statement up with proof


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"Hey man, I don't care whether you belong to the national socialist whatever party or not. If you go out maiming and killing like the German soldiers did, you are a Nazi, plain and simple. Take Atilla the Hun for example. That guy was a Nazi for sure. Why do you think they called the Germans 'the Hun?' As if I needed any more proof, take Adolf Hitler as an example. Anybody who knows anything knows that he definitely had Nazi leanings. And if you're still to stubborn to admit it, then how about Saddam Hussein? If he isn't a Nazi, I don't know who is. And don't forget that pure Nazi Osama Bin Laden. You can't argue with that. I rest my case."

point # 5 as posted by Jonesy-the-cat

seems to me that YOU are the one posting crap....all my posts were rational and had PROOF to back them up.
when peple such as yourself come in here..and browse around,not posting...then you do post,and when you do it is a flame,or something that makes no sense whatsoever...
I do not go around flaming people as you and a MULTITUDE of others do....I try and state a factual opinion...not insane rehtoric....
so try and post something that is good..not something that is inane....



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Mein Ehre Heisst Treue
Das Geminschaft
2nd SS Panzer Division
http://dba.gamepoint.net/images/klaus.jpg

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freakaloin:
the majority of germans were not brainwashed, but they just sat back and did nothing.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

just shutup

Here's my piece of defence. At #2 I wanted to say I did not found your sig offensive (but I had doubts with the 2 S's). I defended you by trying to translate your sig!
And as I said, that link you gave was not proof. I used a dictionary (AND I posted the link to the dictionary)! Man, you're just pissed off, 'cause you didn't had the right translation of your sig.
Your comment on #4 makes absolutely no sense. Congratulations

So I`am a german !

And I`m not a Nazi !!!! http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Es ist geil ein deutscher zu sein !!!

http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

The english are ok , too !!!

http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

I'm with Solidus http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

FuBarGrn-

Okay your last post was civil enough, so I'll reply. To your point #5: LOL! That is called sarcasm. How can you take it seriously? To your point #1: Why would you take that as a personal attack? I was just commenting that someone else's sig looked pro-Nazi. Even if you have the same sig, can't a person express an opinion about it without you taking it as a personal attack? Do you think everyone is against you? Sounds a little paranoid. Chill, man.