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How can people take pieces of text and quote the bible literially? The bible has been translated so many times, that there must be some translation errors in it, minor or not. It is not the original scripture written word-by-word. And as you say, its most of the time meant to take literially.
I've read both Finnish and English version from the book of revelation, and although concept is same, there are some words, that are not exact. Or then again, maybe I am just illiterate. |
[quote="Sotilas Jane":be880]How can people take pieces of text and quote the bible literially? The bible has been translated so many times, that there must be some translation errors in it, minor or not. It is not the original scripture written word-by-word. And as you say, its most of the time meant to take literially.
I've read both Finnish and English version from the book of revelation, and although concept is same, there are some words, that are not exact. Or then again, maybe I am just illiterate.[/quote:be880] Yes, any translated work. by its nature, will have some differences in the wording. The Bible was translated from Hebrew, Aramaic & Greek. In particular the New Testament is of concern here. The ancient greek langauge was word/ picture based, hence a word in greek might mean a sentence in english. The only way to fully grasp what a writer was saying is of course to read it in its original language, a feat few people would want to attempt, so we have to rely on men to translate. However if I told you in english to Love your enemies, you could convey that meaning to someone in Finnish. Yes the words are different but the meanings are the same. :wink: PS sorry for the mutiple posts earlier, i'm not sure what happened :D |
[quote="*MoG*Quartus":25592][quote="Sotilas Jane":25592]How can people take pieces of text and quote the bible literially? The bible has been translated so many times, that there must be some translation errors in it, minor or not. It is not the original scripture written word-by-word. And as you say, its most of the time meant to take literially.
I've read both Finnish and English version from the book of revelation, and although concept is same, there are some words, that are not exact. Or then again, maybe I am just illiterate.[/quote:25592] Yes, any translated work. by its nature, will have some differences in the wording. The Bible was translated from Hebrew, Aramaic & Greek. In particular the New Testament is of concern here. The ancient greek langauge was word/ picture based, hence a word in greek might mean a sentence in english. The only way to fully grasp what a writer was saying is of course to read it in its original language, a feat few people would want to attempt, so we have to rely on men to translate. However if I told you in english to Love your enemies, you could convey that meaning to someone in Finnish. Yes the words are different but the meanings are the same. :wink:[/quote:25592] But how can we be sure, that there are not parts in the bible, which have totally different meaning too, by a mistake in wording? I think that the original scriptures are long lost(?) and this we never can know how it really was meant to be. One wrong word in one wrong sentence could lead for total misconception, and make people understand the whole "event" in totally different view, thus maybe even leading to new actions - in a wrong way? Maybe that is an exaggeration, but still, makes you wonder. |
[quote="Sotilas Jane":f9ab4]
But how can we be sure, that there are not parts in the bible, which have totally different meaning too, by a mistake in wording? I think that the original scriptures are long lost(?) and this we never can know how it really was meant to be. One wrong word in one wrong sentence could lead for total misconception, and make people understand the whole "event" in totally different view, thus maybe even leading to new actions - in a wrong way? Maybe that is an exaggeration, but still, makes you wonder.[/quote:f9ab4] God makes sure His word is perserved. The books of Moses were written 500 years before the earliest Hindu Scriptures. Moses wrote Genesis 2,000 years before Muhammad penned the Koran. During that long history, no other book has been as loved or as hated as the Bible. No other book has been so consistently bought, studied, and quoted as this book. While millions of other titles come and go, the Bible is still the book by which all other books are measured. While often ignored by those who are uncomfortable with its teachings, it is still the central book of Western civilization. |
Just as the modern state of Israel (~1948) was emerging from thousands of years of dispersion, a bedouin shepherd discovered one of the most important archeological treasures of our time. In a cave of the northwest rim of the Dead Sea, a broken jar yielded documents that had been hidden for two millennia. Additional finds produced manuscripts that predated previous oldest copies by 1,000 years. One of the most important was a copy of Isaiah. It revealed a document that is essentially the same as the book of Isaiah that appears in our own Bibles. The Dead Sea scrolls emerged from the dust like a symbolic handshake to a nation coming home. They discredited the claims of those who believed that the original Bible had been lost to time and tampering.
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[quote="*MoG*Quartus":205ec][quote="Sotilas Jane":205ec]
But how can we be sure, that there are not parts in the bible, which have totally different meaning too, by a mistake in wording? I think that the original scriptures are long lost(?) and this we never can know how it really was meant to be. One wrong word in one wrong sentence could lead for total misconception, and make people understand the whole "event" in totally different view, thus maybe even leading to new actions - in a wrong way? Maybe that is an exaggeration, but still, makes you wonder.[/quote:205ec] God makes sure His word is perserved. The books of Moses were written 500 years before the earliest Hindu Scriptures. Moses wrote Genesis 2,000 years before Muhammad penned the Koran. During that long history, no other book has been as loved or as hated as the Bible. No other book has been so consistently bought, studied, and quoted as this book. While millions of other titles come and go, the Bible is still the book by which all other books are measured. While often ignored by those who are uncomfortable with its teachings, it is still the central book of Western civilization.[/quote:205ec] Still, in the earliest days you did not have thousands of active researches, thousands to study the word and help in the translation. So basicly we're living "under" one man's translation, although educated man, but still a man. Or does this again fall to the scenario "God makes sure His word is preserved" ? Anyway or another from thing to another. What is the mystery behind number 144,000 that seems to be awefully small number, while thinking the population. And what is with the "Book of life" which contains the name of every soul that is going to be saved. Is the Book of life constantly evolving, or are most of us born condamned? How can one that loves us so much that is even inhuman to understand, send most of us in eternal pain and suffering, with no possibility to ever be freed from the flames? Quite nice trick to create us, give us our own free will and thinking brains, then tell us lore of the bible. If we decide to belive it we survive (How can this be, I am sure there are more than 144,000 belivers) and if we do not belive, then its one ticket down to the eternal sauna. |
[quote:e39cf]What is the mystery behind number 144,000 that seems to be awefully small number, while thinking the population.[/quote:e39cf]
That is the # of messanic jews that will bring millions to Christ in the last days (the great tribulation). [quote:e39cf]And what is with the "Book of life" which contains the name of every soul that is going to be saved.[/quote:e39cf] The book of Life does contain the names of those who are saved and yes it is contantly being added too (never deleted from). [quote:e39cf] are most of us born condamned? [/quote:e39cf] No one is born condemned, all are given a opportunity to accept God's gift of eternal life. Yours could be right now, if you pass it by thats your choice. [quote:e39cf]Quite nice trick to create us, give us our own free will and thinking brains, then tell us lore of the bible. If we decide to belive it we survive (How can this be, I am sure there are more than 144,000 belivers) and if we do not belive, then its one ticket down to the eternal sauna[/quote:e39cf] I don't understand it all nor claim to, I accept by faith that God is in control. :) |
[quote:22b2d]The book of Life does contain the names of those who are saved and yes it is contantly being added too (never deleted from). [/quote:22b2d]
So does this mean, that you could basicly go and live the way of Jesus, and get added into the book. Afterwards go insane, free and wild, beyond good and evil, and in holocaust of ecstacy and freedom, kill, enjoy and revel? And when you die, get to sit by the god in the heaven? ;) [quote:22b2d]No one is born condemned, all are given a opportunity to accept God's gift of eternal life. Yours could be right now, if you pass it by thats your choice. [/quote:22b2d] What about the people who do not ever even hear from the word? People who die without even knowing there is Jesus Christ? Are those people accepted to heaven from the pure measurement if they have lived a good life? If so, why not all of us are measured that way, but by do we belive, or not? I still just do not get it. If we fail somehow to get in the heaven because way we have lived our very VERY short life span, then how can the ultimate love turn into the ultimate hatred by sending us to hell, where were sure to suffer much longer than our sins in this world would require. The ultimate punish? Hell, even here at the world the guy who commints an murder has change to walk freely once again in the world after serving the time of the punish. In contract our nice god, more loving than anyone, more forgiving than anyone sends a good, family loving chap who has enjoyed a good life to hell, for eternal, inhuman punishment - just beause he did not choose to belive. How can you call that justice, or ultimate love - by any measurement? |
I believe in God, I am Lutheran, but I dont go to church anymore. I was once a strong believer, and I think I still am, but past events and continuing tragedy's always bring me to the same question. Why does God let this happen ?? If he loved us so much, why does he let us destroy ourselves ? I dont get it, why doesnt he destroy evil so we can live in peace ?? Is he waiting for us to destroy ourselves and then show his face ? He is truly magnificent and powerful, but his common sense is perhaps a bit of target.
Death and destruction in his or any religious entities name is, simply said, fucked. No one person has the right to take the life of another in the name of their god, only their god can take that life or give that life, but when it all boils down to it, their is, as far as I am concerned, only one God. So, we are all killing in His name for nothing. For all we know He could be up there laughing His ass off at us because of our complete and utter stupidity, and it would'nt suprise me one little bit if that is the case. The death of a child at the hands of some murdering bastards hands is not God's will, it is evil's will. If God does love us unconditionally as written in the Bible, he would never let a child, one who has not even come close to experiencing the beauties and cruelties of this weird planet, to be killed cold heartedly. I cannot, for a second believe that God would, by his own hand, murder a child, and sadly, if that is the case, I cannot and will not, if it can become a known fact, put my faith in someone or something that can be as heartless or callous as that. Until such a time comes, I will continue to believe that God and his Son, love us and watch over us, atleast those that believe in him. I am forever using his name in vain, blaming him for the worlds problems and other such things, but I will always love him. Others ofcourse will think differently, and I respect the fact that you may not believe in him or have different feelings and ideas toward him and about him. To each his own. You all have the right to choose to believe in what you want and no-one has the right to tell you what you can and cannot believe in. But respect is the key here, no matter what a persons feelings, respect must always be present and felt by both parties, believers and non-believers. |
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I suppose most of you have heard of evil spirits/demons follow people around before. Whether it be through a spiritual contact to the underworld, or whatever, demons have been known to reside in people's homes and even on occasion take control of a person(possessed). Demons are pwerful beings, but Satan is 1,000,000 times more pwerful. Satan is almost as powerful as God, but not quite. Remember, the power of Christ will always prevail over evil. |
I pose this question if your god is real, then why are the gods of Rome and Greece not real, or the gods that the Native Americans worshiped not real?
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[quote="*MoG*Quartus":e480b]Its easy to disregard the Bible as fiction when you haven't read it. I can easily say the writings of other major religions are fiction but to intelligently discuss the issue I would have to at least do a little homework to form a valid opinion.
Just a fourth thing to consider :lol:[/quote:e480b] i totally agree with you Quartus |
very interesting.
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[quote="Pfc.Green":e3761]I pose this question if your god is real, then why are the gods of Rome and Greece not real, or the gods that the Native Americans worshiped not real?[/quote:e3761]
We really never proved them to be fake, but most people just seem they are very unlikely. It is just another religion out there. But, unfortunately, science sometimes has tried to pass faith and religion in the race for answers. |
The moment you have free will, bad things can happen. Why ? Because
everyone is different (don't make me go into psychology / sociology) and they have the freedom to choose how to act or react for any situation. Because of differences in the imprinting of your tabula rasa, something you consider bad might be good for someone else. An act you think is offensive might be totally normal for someone else. I contend that God didn't make a mistake: Earth IS heaven and hell. Actually, every single location in the Universe is. We are simply here to learn and evolve spiritually until we no longer need to reincarnate in third dimensional awareness and can progress elsewhere, in a plane that is more suiting for our level of consciousness. A bit radical, but far better than anything the Bible can come up with. Again, if you have free will, bad things can happen. Don't forget that "bad" is SUBJECTIVE: everyone has a different opinion of what is bad and what is not, although there might be answers that come up more often because of their universality. Just some food for thought. :wink: |
Did jesus have a liqure licence to turn water into wine??
Im athiest, I dont care about the bible, or God stuff, or religion as a whole, and thats my choice. Im happy. One bible I have read though is Spike Milligans :lol: "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, and the earth brought forth grass and the rastafarians smoked it." |
Mythology and religion studies is some interesting stuff...
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[quote:c59e7]"And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, and the earth brought forth grass and the rastafarians smoked it."[/quote:c59e7]
LOL! Nice :lol: |
Heres a joke I thought was really funny:
Imagine this conversation The Creator might have with St. Francis about this: GRASS "Frank, you know all about gardens and nature. What in the world is going on down there in the "States"? What happened to the dandelions, violets, thistle and stuff I started eons ago? I had a perfect, no maintenance garden plan. Thos plants grow in any type of soil, withstand drought and multiply with abandon. The nectar from the long-lasting blossoms attracted butterflies, honey bees and flocks of songbirds. I expected to see a vast garden of colors by now. But all I see are these green rectangles." "It's the tribes that settled there, Lord. The Suburbanites. They started calling your flowers 'weeds' and went to great extent to kill them and replace them with grass." "Grass? But it's so boring. It's not colorful. It doesn't attract butterflies, birds and bees, only grubs and sod worms. It's tempermental with temperatures. Do these Suburbanites really want all that grass growing there?" "Apparently so, Lord. They go to great pains to grow it and keep it green. They begin each spring by fertilizing grass and poisoning any other plant that crops up in the lawn." "The spring rains and cool weather probably make grass grow really fast. That must make the Suburbanites happy." "Apparently not, Lord. As soon as it grows a little, they cut it--sometimes twice a week." "They cut it? Do they bale it like hay?" "Not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up and put it in bags." "They bag it? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?" "No, sir. Just the opposite. They pay to throw it away." "Now let me get this straight. They fertilize grass so it will grow. And when it does grow, they cut it off and pay to throw it away?" "Yes, sir." |
"These Suburbanites must be relieved in the summer when we cut back on the rain and turn up the heat. That surely slows the growth and saves them a lot of work."
"You aren't going believe this Lord. When the grass stops growing so fast, they drag out hoses and pay more money to water it so they can continue to mow it and pay to get rid of it." "What nonsense! At least they kept some of the trees. That was a sheer stroke of genius, if I do say so myself. The trees grow leaves in the spring to provide beauty and shade in the summer. In the autumn they fall to the ground and form a natural blanket to keep moisture in the soil and protect the trees and bushes. Plus, as they rot, the leaves form compost to enhance the soil. It's a natural circle of life." "You better sit down, Lord. The Suburbanites have drawn a new circle. As soon as the leaves fall, they rake them into great piles and have them hauled away." "No! What do they do to protect the shrub and tree roots in the winter and keep the soil moist and loose?" "After throwing away your leaves, they go out and buy something they call mulch. They haul it home and spread it around in place of the leaves." "And where do they get this mulch?" "They cut down trees and grind them up." "Enough! I don't want to think about this anymore. Saint Catherine, you're in charge of the arts. What movie have you scheduled for tonight?" "Dumb and Dumber, Lord. It's a real stupid movie about..." "Never mind I think I just heard the whole story." |
[quote="Pfc.Green":b71fb]I pose this question if your god is real, then why are the gods of Rome and Greece not real, or the gods that the Native Americans worshiped not real?[/quote:b71fb]
they arent really considered fake by any means. its just as most people in the world dont practice these religions it seems rather odd. if someone chooses to believe in Zeus, Posiedon, etc. thats his choice; if he chooses to believe in Spirits of the earth its his choice as well. Correct me if im wrong, but the Hindu religion has a variety of gods, and there are thousands of people who practice that religion. However, i am no theocracist so i cannot state this as fact. |
[quote="Chronic Diarrhea":a91b7]
I think the main reason that evil will never be extinct from this planet, is because Satan is a very, VERY powerful being. Actually Satan, just as God can, can be everywhere and anywhere all at the same time. Satan is almost as powerful as God, but not quite. Remember, the power of Christ will always prevail over evil.[/quote:a91b7] Yes its easy to ignore the real reason we live in a fallen world and that reason is satan. He was the highest & most powferful angel created by God, but pride caused him to think he could be just as God, thus he was cast out of heaven with 1/3 of the angels (now demons) following him. Satan loves when children are killed, he laughs when our loved ones are hurt , he is "a roaring lion seeking about whom he may devour" He hates you and wants you for his own. He wants you to think he is a fairytale, and encourages that thinking. He is the great deceiver. Fortunately he is not omnipresent and cannot be all places at once but he is organized and has many followers whom make his rounds for him. Yes, demon possession is real and happens, but mostly satan relies on our own evil nature to do his will and lets us hang ourselves when given enough rope. Evil is rewarded with more evil just as the punishment for sin is more sin. The more freedom one thinks they have to do as they please, the more a slave to sin they actually are. Don't forget Christ can break the chains of sin that so ensnares us. |
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Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. [quote:bf404]We are simply here to learn and evolve spiritually until we no longer need to reincarnate in third dimensional awareness and can progress elsewhere, in a plane that is more suiting for our level of consciousness.[/quote:bf404] Really, i'm speechless. Where did that whole concept originate? Has anyone ever witnessed it happening. Evolution, spiritually, physically & emotionally is truely a faith based religion. :-? |
[quote="*MoG*Quartus":a268f]
Yes its easy to ignore the real reason we live in a fallen world and that reason is satan. He was the highest & most powferful angel created by God, but pride caused him to think he could be just as God, thus he was cast out of heaven with 1/3 of the angels (now demons) following him. Satan loves when children are killed, he laughs when our loved ones are hurt , he is "a roaring lion seeking about whom he may devour" He hates you and wants you for his own. He wants you to think he is a fairytale, and encourages that thinking. He is the great deceiver. Fortunately he is not omnipresent and cannot be all places at once but he is organized and has many followers whom make his rounds for him. Yes, demon possession is real and happens, but mostly satan relies on our own evil nature to do his will and lets us hang ourselves when given enough rope. Evil is rewarded with more evil just as the punishment for sin is more sin. The more freedom one thinks they have to do as they please, the more a slave to sin they actually are. Don't forget Christ can break the chains of sin that so ensnares us.[/quote:a268f] :lol: You think we live in a dangerous and crime filled world because of "satan" :lol: |
[quote="*MoG*Quartus":fc302]
I can't leave that one alone, God has written what is right and wrong in each person's heart. [/quote:fc302] God has'nt written shit in my heart, I decide what I believe is right or wrong no some mystical being :roll: |
[quote="Pfc.Green":fe028]
:lol: You think we live in a dangerous and crime filled world because of "satan" :lol:[/quote:fe028] Even without demonic influence the sinful bent of human nature provides all the danger & crime we live with daily. |
[quote="Pfc.Green":e56bf]
God has'nt written sh*t in my heart, I decide what I believe is right or wrong no some mystical being :roll:[/quote:e56bf] Our conscience is like a spinning pyramid in our hearts, the points prick us when we do wrong. If we ignore the pricks then the points wear smooth until we are left with a spinning ball and then there can be no discernment between right and wrong, evil or good. |
[quote="*MoG*Quartus":c0e06]
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Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. [quote:c0e06]We are simply here to learn and evolve spiritually until we no longer need to reincarnate in third dimensional awareness and can progress elsewhere, in a plane that is more suiting for our level of consciousness.[/quote:c0e06] Really, i'm speechless. Where did that whole concept originate? Has anyone ever witnessed it happening. Evolution, spiritually, physically & emotionally is truely a faith based religion. :-?[/quote:c0e06] You are officially THE most indoctrinated person I have ever met in my entire life. Your quoting of the bible is pathetic... I feel sorry for you for not having your own thoughts. Shame on you for relying on a book to tell you what is right, wrong and how to live your life. You truly are a SHEEP. I presented the later concept as a logical alternative to the christian view of the world: It is like comparing an adult with an infant, christianity being the infant. Your query "has anyone ever witnessed it happening" is almost funny, considering where you come from. I suggest leaving your bible closed for a moment to personally reflect on the previous phrase. I have my faith and you have your own: the difference is, mine makes sense. Yours doesn't. |
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2) If I am a sheep, what are you? 3) Your "faith" seems like fantasy, blank slate :lol: and doesn't make sense. Here's something we both can reflect on Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. |
Im sorry but I had to post one more to this incredible thread. I hope that you have had fun *Mog*Cut-n-paste. Like I said in the message I've heard it all before. You offer no enlightment. You're show albity to solve a problem for anyone, but you sure can find a nice quote to fit any situation. You probably go to you singles group and practice your bilble pickup lines on the girls.
So here's some cutting and pasting back at ya. bub. INTRODUCTION It is a central dogma of all fundamental Christians that the Bible is without error. They teach this conclusion by "reasoning" that god cannot be the author of false meaning and he cannot lie. Is this true? If written by a perfect being, then it must not contradict itself, as a collection of books written by different men at different times over many centuries would be expected to contradict each other. With this in mind, let us have a look at the Bible on several subjects. ON THE SABBATH DAY "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." -- Exodus 20:8 "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." -- Romans 14:5 ON THE PERMANENCY OF THE EARTH "... the earth abideth for ever." -- Ecclesiastes 1:4 "... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." -- 2Peter 3:10 ON SEEING GOD "... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30 "No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18 ON HUMAN SACRIFICE "... Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God..." -- Leviticus 18:21 [In Judges, though, the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, is being told. Being fearful of defeat, this good religious man sought to guarantee victory by getting god firmly on his side. So he prayed to god] "... If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering" (Judges 11:30-31). [The terms were acceptable to god -- remember, he is supposed to be omniscient and know the future -- so he gave victory to Jephthah, and the first whatsoever that greeted him upon his glorious return was his daughter, as god surely knew would happen, if god is god. True to his vow, the general made a human sacrifice of his only child to god!] -- Judges 11:29-34 ON THE POWER OF GOD "... with God all things are possible." -- Matthew 19:26 "...The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." -- Judges 1:19 ON DEALING WITH PERSONAL INJURY "...thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. " -- Exodus 21:23-25 "...ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." -- Matthew 5:39 ON CIRCUMCISION "This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised." -- Genesis 17:10 "...if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." -- Galatians 5:2 ON INCEST "Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother..." -- Deuteronomy 27:22 "And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter...it is a wicked thing...." -- Leviticus 20:17 [But what was god's reaction to Abraham, who married his sister -- his father's daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12 "And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife...I bless her, and give thee a son also of her..." -- Genesis 17:15-16 ON TRUSTING GOD "A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD..." -- Proverbs 12:2 Now consider the case of Job. After commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and children to win a petty bet with Satan. God asked Satan: "Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause." -- Job 2:3 ON THE HOLY LIFE-STYLE "Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart..." -- Ecclesiastes 9:7 "...they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not..." -- 1 Corinthians 7:30 ON PUNISHING CRIME "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father..." -- Ezekiel 18:20 "I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation..." -- Exodus 20:5 ON TEMPTATION "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." -- James 1:13 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..." -- Genesis 22:1 ON FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS "Honor thy father and thy mother..."-- Exodus 20:12 "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. " -- Luke 14:26 ON RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD "...he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. " -- Job 7:9 "...the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth...." -- John 5:28-29 ON THE END OF THE WORLD "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. " -- Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. " -- Luke 21:32-33 "And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light." -- Romans 13:11-12 "Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." -- James 5:8 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time." -- 1 John 2:18 "But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer." -- 1 Peter 4:7 These words were written between 1800 and 1900 years ago and were meant to warn and prepare the first Christians for the immediate end of the world. Some words are those supposedly straight out of the mouth of the "Son of God." The world did not end 1800 or 1900 years ago. All that generation passed away without any of the things foretold coming to pass. No amount of prayer brought it about; nor ever so much patience and belief and sober living. The world went on, as usual, indifferent to the spoutings of yet another batch of doomsday prophets with visions of messiahs dancing in their deluded brains. The world, by surviving, makes the above passages contradictions. CONCLUSION What is incredible about the Bible is not its divine authorship; it's that such a concoction of contradictory nonsense could be believed by anyone to have been written by an omniscient god. To do so, one would first have to not read the book, which is the practice of most Christians; or, if one does read it, dump in the trash can one's rational intelligence -- to become a fool for god, in other words. All Bible quotes from the Authorized King James Version of the Bible (New York: Abradale Press, 1965) |
Right on Low Spark.
Well said... but in vain. He will come back with another quote while completely disregarding your post. He is hopelessly enslaved by his "God"... or should I say, human masters. :lol: |
[quote="Low spark":a6b91]Im sorry but I had to post one more to this incredible thread. I hope that you have had fun *Mog*Cut-n-paste. Like I said in the message I've heard it all before. You offer no enlightment. You're show albity to solve a problem for anyone, but you sure can find a nice quote to fit any situation. You probably go to you singles group and practice your bilble pickup lines on the girls.
So here's some cutting and pasting back at ya. bub.[/quote:a6b91] I sense some hostility here :lol: [quote:a6b91] INTRODUCTION It is a central dogma of all fundamental Christians that the Bible is without error. They teach this conclusion by "reasoning" that god cannot be the author of false meaning and he cannot lie. Is this true? If written by a perfect being, then it must not contradict itself, as a collection of books written by different men at different times over many centuries would be expected to contradict each other. With this in mind, let us have a look at the Bible on several subjects. ON THE SABBATH DAY "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." -- Exodus 20:8 "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." -- Romans 14:5 ON THE PERMANENCY OF THE EARTH "... the earth abideth for ever." -- Ecclesiastes 1:4 "... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." -- 2Peter 3:10 ON SEEING GOD... ETC, ETC SHORTED FOR SPACE RESTRANTS... These words were written between 1800 and 1900 years ago and were meant to warn and prepare the first Christians for the immediate end of the world. Some words are those supposedly straight out of the mouth of the "Son of God." The world did not end 1800 or 1900 years ago. All that generation passed away without any of the things foretold coming to pass. No amount of prayer brought it about; nor ever so much patience and belief and sober living. The world went on, as usual, indifferent to the spoutings of yet another batch of doomsday prophets with visions of messiahs dancing in their deluded brains. The world, by surviving, makes the above passages contradictions. CONCLUSION What is incredible about the Bible is not its divine authorship; it's that such a concoction of contradictory nonsense could be believed by anyone to have been written by an omniscient god. To do so, one would first have to not read the book, which is the practice of most Christians; or, if one does read it, dump in the trash can one's rational intelligence -- to become a fool for god, in other words. All Bible quotes from the Authorized King James Version of the Bible (New York: Abradale Press, 1965)[/quote:a6b91] Talk about hearing it all before. Thats quite impressive, and any reply would be useless to one so enlightened. You did forget the classic: Who was Cain's wife? :lol: [quote:a6b91]You're show albity to solve a problem for anyone, but you sure can find a nice quote to fit any situation[/quote:a6b91] And this has been my whole point, the Bible has a "quote to fit every situation" because it was given by God (who works through ordinary men to pen its pages). Also remember most of your "contradictions" are from different testaments (old vs new). Tes·ta·ment 1) archaic : a covenant between God and the human race Read :Old covenant vs New covenant |
Quote:
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. |
more cut and past fun
THE TRUTHFUL WITNESS "If I [Jesus] bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." (John 5:31) "I [Jesus] am one that bear witness of myself..." (John 8:18) According to these scriptures, Jesus was a false witness. THE GENEALOGY OF JESUS "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary...." (Matthew 1:16) "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being ... the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli..."(Luke 3:23) WHO JESUS SAID WAS GOD "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" (John 10:34) According to this scripture, Jesus thought that the Jewish law (i.e., the Old Testament) reported that he said the Jews were gods. THE VIRGIN BIRTH "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh...." (Romans 1:3) THE SO-CALLED SON OF GOD'S COURAGE "And I [Jesus] say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do." (Luke 12:4) "Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple..." (John 8:59) "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because Jews sought to kill him." (John 7:1) A case of do as I say, not as I do! THE PRINCE OF PEACE "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I [Jesus] tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three." (Luke 12:51-2) "Think not that I [Jesus] have come to send peace on earth: I come not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34) "...for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." (Matthew 26:52) "...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke 22:36) And to think that these ravings are supposed to be the sayings of one some call the prince of peace. WHOLESOME FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS "For I [Jesus] am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew 10:35-6) "If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26) "Honour thy father and thy mother..." (Matthew 19:19) "And call no man your father upon earth..." (Mathew 23:9) HIS FOLLOWERS "All that ever came before me [Jesus] are thieves and robbers..." (John 10:8) GREAT WISDOM OF HIS TEACHINGS "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I [Jesus] will liken him unto a wise man..." (Matthew 7:24) "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish..." (Matthew 5:29) Who in their right mind would pluck out their eye and think that it was profitable? THE HOUR OF THE CRUCIFIXION "And it was the third hour, and they crucified him." (Mark 15:25) (John 19:12-18) clearly shows that he was not crucified until after the sixth hour. SCRIPTURAL ACCURACIES "Then was fulfilled [by Jesus] that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet..." (Matthew 27:9) It was Zechariah, not Jeremy, who made that prophecy. See (Zechariah 11:12) "...that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He [Jesus] shall be called a Nazarene." (Matthew 2:23) There is no mention by the Old Testament prophets that this Jesus fellow would be called a Nazarene. God was often confused when writing the Bible. BROKEN PROMISES "Verily I [Jesus] say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things [the end of the world] be fulfilled." (Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32) "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22) The early followers of Jesus died waiting for the end of the world, and even today, over 1900 years later, some Christians still believe that the world is to end in their generation, and that Jesus will give them anything that they ask for in prayer. RESURRECTION His friends come to Jesus' tomb, but the doorstone is rolled away and one angel sitting on the outside gives the news to them before they go in. (Matthew 28:1-8) His friends come to the tomb, go inside, find nobody, are perplexed, and then two men give them the news. (Luke 24:1-4) The other resurrection stories are different as well. WHAT IS THE BIBLE? The Bible is one of twenty-seven books for which divine origin is claimed. Christians deny the divinity of all Bibles but their own. We deny the divinity of only one more than they do. Out of 250 Jewish-Christian writings, sixty-six have arbitrarily been declared canonical by Protestants. The rejected books are of the same general character as those now published together as the "Holy Bible." Circumstances rather than merit determined selection. For 150 years the Christian Bible consisted of the sacred books of the Jews. The New Testament was not formed until the latter half of the second century when Irenaeus selected twenty books from among forty or more gospels, nearly as many acts of apostles, a score of revelations and a hundred epistles. Why were these particular books chosen? Why four gospels instead of one? Irenaeus: "There are four quarters of the earth in which we live and four universal winds." The gospels were unknown to Peter, Paul, and the early church fathers. They were forged later. The Bible did not assume anything like its present form until the fourth century. The Roman Catholic, Greek Catholic, and Protestant canons were not adopted until modern times. The Bible was recognized as a collection of independent writings. The Council of Trent (1563) determined the Roman Catholic, Protestants denounce the Catholic Bible as a "popish imposture." The Greek Catholics at the Council of Jerusalem in 1672 finally accepted the book of Revelation. Their Bible contains several books not in the Roman canon. The Westminster Assembly in 1647 approved the list of sixty-six books composing the authorized version, the one most used in America. Our Bible, therefore, is less than 300 years old. CONCLUSION The Christian faith is based on the belief that the Bible is indeed the word of god. If the Bible cannot be shown to be inspired, then the Christian faith could be said to be false and no more than a farce. If the Bible cannot be shown to be inspired, then Christianity can be said to be the same as any other religion that has been devised and practiced by man. The Bible story of Jesus is a contradictory and confusing account. The Bible shows that this Jesus fellow spoke and taught many absurd and foolish things, and often believed he was having a conversation with devils. If one will read the entire Bible, one will find tales of ignorance, murder, sexual perversions, mass insanity, idiotic laws, and even cannibalism and human sacrifice. It staggers the imagination how anyone in his right mind could read the Bible and believe that it was written by a wise, just, and loving god. Christians have found biblical scriptures telling them to burn people at the stake, to justify slavery, to oppress and persecute others, and to kill and commit war in the name of their god. Unfortunately, there are some even today who would have us return to the teachings and laws found in the Bible. We are taught in our culture that Jesus is the divine hero, but other cultures have different saviors. Religious beliefs are a function of the culture in which one lives. If we had been reared in a different culture, we would have heard the story of a different savior, instead of the Jesus story. Upon comparing the stories of the different saviors, one finds that the similarities are so striking, it is beyond a doubt that they are more than just a coincidence. Jesus is a myth just like all the other saviors and gods of old. Atheism is the clear and rational alternative to the confusion, fear, and superstition that are offered by religion. Atheism encourages freedom of thought and inquiry, while religion by its very nature has to encourage unquestioning obedience and blind faith in doctrines. Belief in god myths has brought misery, suppression of thought and inquiry, fear, and has promoted ignorance. The human race no longer needs these myths of old. Just as little children grow up and learn the truth about the existence of the tooth fairy, the human race needs to mature and learn the truth about the existence of god. All Bible quotes are from the Authorized King James Version of the Bible (Abradale Press, New York). |
Is this where the orgy is?
/me looks at map f00k /me leaves |
I am not smart enough to add to this......but quoting is seriouslly not a good way to get your points across
basically all your answers are quotes from something that is not your mind, writtin well by you can't really know My mind can't take reading solidus's and Low SParks stuff.....I need to get smarter quick.......I have learned so many new words from this one thread |
If I really wanted an opinion on religion i would take a course at college :lol:
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I happen to be very religious yet still hate to see topics like this on forums. They dont belong here. I commend Quartus on his beliefs. Its easy to believe and follow what you can see, touch, and point to. Not so easy to follow something you cant. God Bless you for stickin to your guns. However, to sum up, Person A believes in one thing, let it be Person B.
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okay here is a very simple way of ending this.
Adam and Eve had three boys (i may not be 100%) how is it that within the span of a few hundred years the earth became populated? seeing as god forbits incest and, incest causes health problems. I do not see how that three boys, a man and a woman could populate the earth. this type of discussion, nay, preaching has no place in the forums. |
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