That's your opinion though. It's not fact.

Fact: There are MANY homosexual people who have breakdowns when they realise they can't change their sexual orientation. Alot of people have killed themselves because they were afraid of how people would treat them if they came out.
Most gay people are reluctant about their sexual orientation.

Therefore, there is no bearing or control over who they are sexually attracted too. It might as well be hereditary. Tell me why you think it's more important that it is hereditary as opposed to it being nurtured? You think it's controllable?

How many cases of homosexuality have you heard of, where they just went to a psychologist or a psychiatrist, and they talked them out of their sexual orientation.

Whether you agree with it or not, to alot (if not most) of homosexuals, they are forced to live with it, despite wanting to be straight.

[Tom Cruise]You don't know psychiatry, I do![/Tom Cruise]

They can't sit with psychologists and talk their way out of being gay because psychologists will tell them they are perfectly fine the way they are. And I really don't think that there are a lot of homosexuals who are that way despite truly wanting to be straight (keyword truly). I think some may say they want to be, but don't actually.

You're pretty narrow-minded, aren't you?

How many gay people do you actually know, to be able to generalise and claim they all don't truly want to be straight? Have you ever actually talked to a gay person before?

I've met a few in my time and the one same story I hear, is that of dealing with total confusion and having suicidal thoughts based on this confusion with sexual orientation.
Do you think people would willingly put themselves through that?

Do you think that gay guys just decide one day, "Hey, fucking men looks fun, I am now.....GAY."

Whether it's natural (determined before birth) or nutured (determined after, by upbringing). There is no control or will by the person in question to change their sexual orientation to "unnatural" mode. There is no other explanation. Human's can't consciously control their own sexual orientation.

no one will ever know for sure how the determination of orientation works.

[quote="Sgt. Paine":cc84d]no one will ever know for sure how the determination of orientation works.[/quote:cc84d]

Actually, there are many possibilities currently in the works that may reveal it. All it would take is to find a 'Gay' gene, just like they recently found a 'hangover' gene.

....But regardless, it doesn't take a fucking genius to realise that most gay people have to learn to deal with being homosexual, and that it doesn't just happen by their own conscious control.

[quote=Chappy]you don't work in a church and don't practice your "bullshit" faith anymore so you have no idea the crapstorm that is flying around most protestant (not so much catholic) congregations. YES I do, my family stills goes regularly, Not a single church has had a gay couple ask them to be married yet... because you don't then you don't see the gay activist groups that target protestants specifically in order to have gay marriage sanctioned by the church,Ya they will target it....but you can deny them that, it is your choice, I could care lees who you marry or not. the churches that do decide to marry Gay couples HAVe all the right to do this though, and will, AND they will call it marriage. Like it or lump it. got it ? not to mention more homosexuals in leadership positions (on par with the marriage issue). most denominations are having to play damage control in order that certain groups don't split their churches down the middle. I assure you that gay marriage will not be the end of your church. It will die on its own @ the rate it is at.

like i said, i could care less how you feel about religion, im not forcing mine down anyone's throat, so i feel its only fair that i not be called a "homophobe" because i dont agree.You assume I called you a homophobe ? Do you remember you're own username you can call practicing faith "bullshit" all you want...that doesn't change anything; what you do and what you believe in your life is your business...don't try and make it mine.I give God a lot more credit then any Christian does. (its cool to be gay but not cool to be a person of faith...wtf kind of logic is that? whoa whoa whoa... slow down big guy, Lets not try and reverse this here, You are NOT persecuted fror your faith, YOU are not in the crossfire. You live the easiest of all. Don't try and portray Conservative Christians as the ones suffering. liberals want all people to be equal, unless youre a conservative who believes in God...nice system you got there) Well why would it not ? Liberalism is the opposite. How can the 2 not clash. Should Liberals bow down right now and let America take a single direction ? Hell No. This is a democratic place where both clash FOR a reason. It is called democracy. Learn to live with it. why is it that when put up for votes, the majority of people in a majority of states vote against mandating gay marriage? because America is a bunch of gay bashing hatemongers? no, they just don't want the issue forced down their throats like it has been,Thats not the point, let the issue be decided by each state. The problem here is that George is trying to pass bills left right and center to "keep the family alive"and they don't think its a civil rights issue but a lifestyle choice that has been turned into a socio-political debate...until you can prove that homosexuality is absolutely hereditary, you have no scientific ground to stand on. Did you read either of the articles I gave you.......

and all of those articles you posted still cannot prove that there is a "gay gene" only predispositions of it... I was not tryign to proove a gay gene, but show genetics have a role in it. WHICH THEY DO In MANY CASESwho does those studies? all studies and cases are peformed by people, people have bias and reasons behind doing the studies...did you read the title of one of the articles......it has nothing to do with conservative thought vs liberal thought[b]then what is it ?

liberals want everyone to believe they fight for the good of mankind until someone doesnt buy into their crusade and then they are labeled "homophobes"[/quote:672be] rolleyes:

Probably 5000 + spelling mistakes...

You, Mr Don't Pay Any Attention To My Spelling And Grammar Mistakes, are complaining about someone else's.

oOo:

Spell check by Outlook

Of the 24 spelling mistakes found by Outlook Spell Check 17 are actual mistakes. Would you like for me to find some of your, shall we say funnier, posts.

I was reffering to my responses.. NOT his old man. If you look harder you will see I have responded in the BOLDED TEXT. oOo:

well since you've called everyone that hasnt agreed with you on this a "homophobe" then i will try to make that shoe fit.

as far as all your other points, you dont have to go very far in around these forums to find someone to help you bash Conservative Christians not to mention the fact that mainstream liberalism wants the rest of the country to believe that those of us who are CC's are wacko nutbags and the majority are not...the idea of the religious right and the moral majority are myths...there has been no such organized movement, but a majority of church-goers vote republican...

what does my username have to do with anything? you cannot have it both ways, either you practice faith or you don't. yah its nice when people say they believe in God but it ends there...so what? if you don't follow the tenets of the religion (the ones laid down by God and not by humans) then whats different from saying you believe in the sasquatch? the simple fact of the matter...how can the church bless a lifestyle that goes against its teachings? if the church balks on that then it loses its authority and then is no different from the local elks club...thats how the church fades into the background, by capitulating rather than standing up to the changing morality of the culture...which is mutually exclusive from the morality found in the Kingdom of God..

i read the article (which has nothing to do with the religious debate)but im skeptical because of the fact that this guy sites no sources aside from news from the NiH which says:

"A much-discussed study done in 1993 by a team of geneticists at the National Institutes of Health found a spot on, sure enough, the X chromosome that they believe contains a gay gene. The NIH team is now in the process of pinpointing the gene itself, which has already been registered by the name GAY-1."

...havent heard anything about this since, did i miss something? (they "found" it in '93)

but to mention politics and that debate...the fact that when put up for a vote, mandating gay marriage is shot down was the point, it means that the majority of the people in the state don't want that...then the liberal judges come seeing their meal ticket and start legislating from the bench and over turn the laws.

you and i will never agree on this and thats fine, we dont have to...and besides im all for allowing folks to have civil unions or any other rights hetero couples have, just don't try to force the hand of the church (youre naive to think that there are those who arent trying, i pick up my denominations newsletters and every month i see different)

Society is changing, and you will as well. It is all just a matter of time. Lie I have said befroe, you will look back on this like we look back on the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's. Change will happen. Get over it.

So people will just have to forget their religion and get over it?

isn't that ironically intolerant.

You don't vote with religion. You aren't gay, so whats the problem when people in the same country are? The zealots out there believe everyone should be the same god fearing citizen, no exceptions. Damn idealist christians are just as bad as the conservative ones.

I was replying to Short Hand saying that it was going to be like Civil Rights where it would have to become accepted by everybody sooner or later.

It still applies to your train of thought.