The only reason I think 1 shot to the chest should be a guaranteed kill is because there is no difference in the game between incapacitated (alive but out of the fight) and dead. If someone takes a 30-06 or 7.92mm round to the chest, they are gonna stop fighting and start trying not to die. No one takes a full on hit from a battle rifle caliber round in the chest and keeps fighting.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BallisticWookie:
And getting taken out by a guy at the MG42 bunker with a shotgun, while I'm only just leaning out of a window is not realistic.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well how would you know ? Have you ever been takin out with a shot gun while leaning out a window ?

The problem in MOH is that you die way too easy sometimes. Like if you fall from the top of a building, you lose 90 Health, and if you get more health, and fall from the same spot,die...
And if you fall like a foot you lose 5 health, and so on. And the thing is, you can die from being shot in the foot 3 times. I think they need to have it, so if you get shot in the foot, it only takes off like 5, maybe 10 health points at a time. Same with the arm and such. But if you get shot in the chest, of the face... Well then you DIE D:

This isn't something I was thinking should be in a mod.

I was thinking along the lines of a patch...since it has to do with game balance.

Patch maybe, and yes this has a great deal to do with game balance. Future updates will occur, in what capacity I do not know. But at the moment, if someone wanted to change this, it would have to happen in a mod.

And getting taken out by a guy at the MG42 bunker with a shotgun, while I'm only just leaning out of a window is not realistic.

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Stalingrad isnt a very big map, and shotguns "do and should" have the advantage on such maps. When your going to play Omaha Beach or some other wide open map, then the rifles have the advantage.

And for the damage thing, its ok as it is now I think. A soldier in in a "life or death" situation wouldnt fall down and die after only one bullet to the chest(unless it hits your hart).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by b0n0:
Stalingrad isnt a very big map, and shotguns "do and should" have the advantage on such maps. When your going to play Omaha Beach or some other wide open map, then the rifles have the advantage.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's what I tell myself after someone blows me away with a shotgun when I'm turning a corner. In the other maps, the other weapons will be of course more valuable.

I get pissed off at the shotgun, but of course in this map, many of the battle situations are in close range. I expect the shotgun to come on top when in a close battle.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by b0n0:

And for the damage thing, its ok as it is now I think. A soldier in in a "life or death" situation wouldnt fall down and die after only one bullet to the chest(unless it hits your hart).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well if you got shot in the chest, chances are you would die. But of you don't, then there is not much you can do but lay there and wait to die. As for being shot in the heart..... Yes you would die almost instantly.

And about the blood thing. I was reading someplace, I think it was on 2015's site. But when they set out to make MOH, they wanted to make sure being shot was life like. They said something about, the soldiers had so much clothes on, that when they would get shot in the chest, blood WOULDN'T come shooting out all over the place. Insted, smoke or dust or what ever would, or something like that. So I think how they have it now is good, they just need to make it so when you get shot, you can see alittle bit of blood on the guys chest, or where ever he was shot. And some on the floor. Other than that, I think its really life like when you shoot someone in the chest and see air, or dust, or smoke what ever come out both ways (in MOH that is)

Uh...if you shoot someone in the neck, head, legs, or hands, you would definitely see a splash of blood.

But in the game, you don't.

The clothes statement they posted on their site is just a petty excuse they used to cover up the fact that they wanted a TEEN rating to make more money by being able to sell the game in Walmart and Target.

Pathetic, isn't it?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tyler Durden:
And about the blood thing. I was reading someplace, I think it was on 2015's site. But when they set out to make MOH, they wanted to make sure being shot was life like. They said something about, the soldiers had so much clothes on, that when they would get shot in the chest, blood WOULDN'T come shooting out all over the place. Insted, smoke or dust or what ever would, or something like that. So I think how they have it now is good, they just need to make it so when you get shot, you can see alittle bit of blood on the guys chest, or where ever he was shot. And some on the floor. Other than that, I think its really life like when you shoot someone in the chest and see air, or dust, or smoke what ever come out both ways (in MOH that is)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's complete bullcrap. If you ever read real first hand accounts of battles at close range such as Stalingrad, the soldiers said that when the bullet entered the soldier fom the front, chunks of the human body flew out the other side. The bullets basically flew through the body and they captured pieces of flesh. No blood? I think not! One of the soldiers said that he threw up after shooting some German and seeing the exact same thing that I speak of. He was a Soviet soldier in Stalingrad.

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[This message has been edited by Recycled Spooge (edited December 19, 2001).]

shotgun is cheap

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they should take out the shtgun + the sound for it is gay

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i always hate the People with the Shot guns!! But i am getting used to it now!! I just wait until they have to reload!!!

ah just shut up. If you think its pathetic then dont play it. Just because it doesnt have blood, doesnt give you or anyone else the right to hold it against 2015 or EA. There may be MANY reasons why they cant have blood. I for one have never seen any blood in a EA game. That is why I look down on EA for one of many reasons.

As for Spooge, I saw the show you are talking about. The kid was not even 5 inches from the german, and he shot 60 rounds into his chest. I think from that far you would see flesh and chunks of shit come out someones back. Dont say what I said was BS, that pisses me off a great deal.

Now geet teh hell outta here before I go tonya harding on your ass !

http://longbeachtangsoodo.netfirms.com/shortstick.JPG

well...have any of you guys actually shot a 12 ga. shotgun?I have A LOT and there are different Loads which have different #'s of pellets,and different patterns for each of these...who is to say?I think that using the shotgun is great...I have been blasted a lot of times with it myself...The only thing I can gripe about is this 5 shells???What ype of shotgun only carries 5 shells?.in the 1930's-1950's the most widely manufactured shotgun was the Winchester model 97 and the us army used this gun sparcely,but it did carry 8 shells not 5...I know...I know...maybe this is not that particular type of shotgun,but it WAS used by the military and it WAS used in WW2...so why not add the extra 3 shells...you guys Bitch and moan about realism,well here it is slapping you in the face!!!!!!

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Praise the Medics...and pass the ammunition

I was just going to post something to that effect FuBarGrn. But in all actuallity the only load for a 12 gauge I know of that has thta many pellets in it is Birdshot and the pellets are very small so I thinnk the # of shot in the shell should be lowered to 3 or 4 which what real buckshot has. As far as spread and all I think the rest is pretty accurate.

I've seen blood in a couple EA games...most recent being Black & White..

hahahaha

FN2K, The "Standard" number of Pellets in a 12ga 00 Buckshot cartridge is 9. However there are varients with as many as 15.

Actually the shot pattern on the shotgun should be tightened, the shot spreads WAY to fast now. At 10 or 12 feet all the pellets would still pretty much make a single large hole in the target. Otherwise I think the shotgun is very realistically modelled. There is no reason anyone should survive a close range shotgun hit anyway.

What alot of people here seem to be missing is that as you move toward more realism you move toward more "balance" when people are forced to use the weapons within the parameters that they would be used in real life you have achieved balance. All told other than the number of shots required to kill with any weapon I think the guns are pretty well modelled. Just tweaking the damage up on them all so that any chest or head shot is a guaranteed kill would make the game almost perfect.

[This message has been edited by Vermilion Leader (edited December 19, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tyler Durden:
As for Spooge, I saw the show you are talking about. The kid was not even 5 inches from the german, and he shot 60 rounds into his chest. I think from that far you would see flesh and chunks of shit come out someones back. Dont say what I said was BS, that pisses me off a great deal.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well sir, what is the average range you fire at another person in the game? For me it's around four feet being the farthest and 0 inches being the closest. The range doesn't matter it was still very close for those type of guns. An AK 47 could pierce through a human body from a further range and I wouldn't be surprised if the guns used in WWII could the same at closer range. Seriously dude, what is so hard inside the human body to actually stop the bullet except the bone? If you throw a rock into a puddle of water, water will splash out, if you shoot a bullet into a human, blood will splash out.



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If you throw a rock into a puddle of water, water will splash out, if you shoot a bullet into a human, blood will splash out.

that may be the most retarded analogy ive ever seen... lol skin and water are a BIT different...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BDC22:

If you throw a rock into a puddle of water, water will splash out, if you shoot a bullet into a human, blood will splash out.

that may be the most retarded analogy ive ever seen... lol skin and water are a BIT different...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well if you compare the velocity of the bullet to the texture of the skin... Now, Imagine if that bullet hit an artery.

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[This message has been edited by Recycled Spooge (edited December 19, 2001).]

Vermilion Leader, I totally agree. That’s what I’ve been saying all along. Make the weapons as realistic as possible and the damage. Currently it takes 4 direct shots to the chest from the machine gun to kill someone. That’s BS. I think 2015 needs to decide if they are making a Q3 game or a Realistic WW2 game aimed at giving you the feel for a Private Ryan type of experience. I think they are somewhat in the middle and need to choose sides.

I think a shot to the body should at minimum disorient you just the way the Alien attack in AVP disorients you. 2 shots and your dead. 1 shot to the head from any gun and you should be dead.

I am no expert on Shotguns so I'll be silent about that.
But the Grenade and Rocket explosions or the worst. They are totally inconsistent and inaccurate.

If you take a look at this screenshot, you'll notice the shotgun unleashes 20 individual bullets that spread out with each buckshot.

I think most games with shotguns use between 10 - 12 bullets.

I think they should either cut the number of bullets that shoot out down to 10 or so.

-OR-

Keep it at 20 bullets, but make the buckshot spread out the bullets much faster than the current rate they spread out at so that they scatter almost instantly (making it more difficult to pull off the one shot kills we are seeing), so that you have to be like less than 3 feet away to get an instant kill.

I think we all agree that the instant kills people are getting with shotguns are a little too unfair...

[This message has been edited by Jesta (edited December 19, 2001).]

Good idea http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/wink.gif Maybe somebody could change that in a mod ??

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No .. They cant... Besides, I think its fine. I mean, thats how it is in real life.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Recycled Spooge:
[quote:e5498]Originally posted by BDC22:
not trying to get on ur nerves but how is that different??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're answers are very vague. I guess I didn't know what you ment by, "It wouldnt splash like water though." I don't know what you mean; do you mean that blood is more dense, so it would look more like "sour milk" flying out? Or do you mean that it would spray out more instead of splashing?

[/quote:e5498]

Who said anything about "sour milk"?? Anyways, the blood wouldn't simply "splash" out, it would probly hit then ooze out.

First, if you knew that there were no ak's in WWII, THEN STOP TALKING ABOUT THEM ! Who cares what it can do, what matters is the weapons during WWII ! And if your not talking about the shot gun, then what are you talking about ? This whole thread was based on the shotgun, thats what everyone else is talking about, not the fucking ak-47 !

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Recycled Spooge:
[B] [QUOTE]Originally posted by BDC22:

If you throw a rock into a puddle of water, water will splash out, if you shoot a bullet into a human, blood will splash out.

that may be the most retarded analogy ive ever seen... lol skin and water are a BIT different...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well if you compare the velocity of the bullet to the texture of the skin... Now, Imagine if that bullet hit an artery.

yeah but it wouldnt splash like water though is my point

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by BDC22:
yeah but it wouldnt splash like water though is my point

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not saying that it would splash like water, I'm saying that it would splash as a result of something slamming into it.


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[This message has been edited by Recycled Spooge (edited December 20, 2001).]

not trying to get on ur nerves but how is that different??

spoo ! They didn't have anything like an AK-47 back then. If they did, then they would have used it. Being shot in the chest with a m1garand will throw you back, it might even go through you. But I still say being shot with a shot gun, will not throw flesh, and chunks of body out your damn back ! THats so stupid, omg. And im sure your right, it can happen, but how good do you think it would look on the Quake3 engine ? Not very good, it has a hard time dealing with things like that. It was only made for people being shot and blowing up.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BDC22:
not trying to get on ur nerves but how is that different??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're answers are very vague. I guess I didn't know what you ment by, "It wouldnt splash like water though." I don't know what you mean; do you mean that blood is more dense, so it would look more like "sour milk" flying out? Or do you mean that it would spray out more instead of splashing?

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[This message has been edited by Recycled Spooge (edited December 20, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tyler Durden:
spoo ! They didn't have anything like an AK-47 back then. If they did, then they would have used it. Being shot in the chest with a m1garand will throw you back, it might even go through you. But I still say being shot with a shot gun, will not throw flesh, and chunks of body out your damn back ! THats so stupid, omg. And im sure your right, it can happen, but how good do you think it would look on the Quake3 engine ? Not very good, it has a hard time dealing with things like that. It was only made for people being shot and blowing up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I wasn't talking about the shotgun. The shotgun is the stupidest idea in this entire game. I don't care about the shotgun. The shotgun can fuck itself for all I care. I was talking about the normal weapons. Second, I know there was no AK47, DUUUUHHHHHHH!!!!! I was just using it as an example; but still, even though we didn't have the AK47, we had the Sturm Gewehr 44 which was very similar to the AK47.



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Tyler Durden: you said the M1 Garand would throw you back if it hit you, possibly even go through you. Possibly? This is a 220-grain, .30-06 round traveling at 2800 feet per second. A direct hit from this rifle will go through a human like a hot knife through butter.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tyler Durden:
First, if you knew that there were no ak's in WWII, THEN STOP TALKING ABOUT THEM ! Who cares what it can do, what matters is the weapons during WWII ! And if your not talking about the shot gun, then what are you talking about ? This whole thread was based on the shotgun, thats what everyone else is talking about, not the fucking ak-47 !<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Please learn how to read, or at least TRY to read what I wrote. You just make yourself look stupid. :P I am talking about guns that were really used in the war!!

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[This message has been edited by Recycled Spooge (edited December 21, 2001).]

Here are pictures of an STG44 and AK together:
http://faq.guns.ru/images/stg44.gif
http://faq.guns.ru/images/akn1.gif

You can see how similar they are. So although there was no AK47 in WW2, there was a very similar weapon. Anyway, you can now continue your flame war.


[This message has been edited by Hans (edited December 21, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hans:
Here are pictures of an STG44 and AK together:
http://faq.guns.ru/images/stg44.gif
http://faq.guns.ru/images/akn1.gif

You can see how similar they are. So although there was no AK47 in WW2, there was a very similar weapon. Anyway, you can now continue your flame war.


[This message has been edited by Hans (edited December 21, 2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you Hans, clearly some people still did not get this concept. http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


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This thread is going to hell in a handbag

" ... "
/me stands up

YOU ARE ALL RETARDS.
:P

/me sits down
" ... "

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