What should happen to US pilots in "friendlt fire"
 

read the story then post. What should happen to these two guys?
http://www.detnews.com/2003/nation/0301 ... -60676.htm
I think criminal charges are wrong, it was a trajic accident but not a crime.
mb

They went against orders, easy enough, they should be put into JAG court, and let them decide.

Im to lazy to read, i just got home from school, so what exactly happend?

[quote="Capt. John Miller":445d4]Im to lazy to read, i just got home from school, so what exactly happend?[/quote:445d4]

if I typed it for you wouldnt you still have to read it?
mb

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":acce1][quote="Capt. John Miller":acce1]Im to lazy to read, i just got home from school, so what exactly happend?[/quote:acce1]

if I typed it for you wouldnt you still have to read it?
mb[/quote:acce1]

Record a wav or mp3 of it then he won't ;)

I believe what they did was wrong, what there punishment should be I dont know, as Joe said the JAG court should decide.

are you people really silly enough to believe "official" reports.

"the pilots went in without orders" translates to "the idiot colonel fucked up but we can't have him put in Leavenworth so we'll blame the young stupid Lieutenants"

man they should be put in jail. They said they were under attack? Not likly, they were trying to be hero's.

Dont ya think that there was a break down in commucations .
1- why was a al -quaeda training camp still on the map , when in fact it was cleared by special forces , as being empty.

Its too bad it had to happen. But whats even worse is the way it's being handled.

All it looks like to me is the US is trying to appease Canadians. ANd I don't want to come off as a country that can't handle it or were a bunch of whiners etc.

If their going to do all this trial and shit, I think it should be done in EVERY case of FF, not just because they killed Canadians.

They did something wrong and should be punished. But all piliots or whoever who do the same thing should be punished in the same way. I don't see how Canada is the exception. It makes us look like assholes and other instances between our countries haven't made us look good to each other. I suppose we take each other for granted.

All I hope is that the piliots get what they deserve. Nothing more, nothing less. If it is found they were not at fault, so be it, but someone is responsible, right?

military intellegence... 2 words that should never go together .

I think they should be charged with murder, and thrown in jail.

Unintentional Manslaughter is a joke, it's like saying he didn't mean to drop the bomb or kill anyone. He meant to drop the bomb, and he meant to kill someone, it just ended up being someone diffrent than he thought he was killing.

That's a tough call. I find it hard to believe the "official reports" too. The guys job is to kill people, plain and simple. To find it criminal when an error happens just seems weird to me. It's war for crying out loud.

I wonder what would happen if the pilot was Canadian, and those soldiers were American?

That would never happen since our planes don't fly.

[quote:7713c]If the pilots are court-martialed, the Air Force will "look like a petty, two-bit outfit, and it is a label the Air Force will deserve," declared Joan Schmidt, of East St. Louis, an Illinois suburb of St. Louis, Mo. [/quote:7713c]

LOL

Yes military intelligence there's a contradiction in terms.

Appartenlty most US pilots are high anyways. They have to take "anti fatigue" pills to be able to fly. This has an apmphetamine effect. I saw it on the news a while ago.

They were whacked, saw gunfire and thought they were getting shot at.....they were flying man

Sh&t happens.

I think they should be courtmarshalled, thrown in jail is a bit harsh, they didn't get up and think 'hey I'm gana kill some Canadians today!'

America would have already given the pilot death sentance and/or called it a terrorist attack and start a war against us...hmmm..well ill be that sounds just about right. And our planes to fly ninty. We have cf-18's, and the hurcules transporters.. if only we would have kept working on the avro and not given the designs to the americans.

[quote:226f4]

America would have already given the pilot death sentance and/or called it a terrorist attack and start a war against us...hmmm..well ill be that sounds just about right.
[/quote:226f4]

Thats about the stupidest thing i've heard you say.
[quote:226f4]
And our planes to fly ninty. We have cf-18's, and the hurcules transporters.. if only we would have kept working on the avro and not given the designs to the americans.[/quote:226f4]

Yeah I know. It was a half joke. But only 60 of the 120 CF-18's are combat ready. And the ones that do fly don't ahve the right equipment. So they cannot fly with allied aircraft.

And I don't think a CC-130 Hercules can bomb anyone since they are a transport plane.

c-130s drop daisy cutters oOo:

Not ours.

you really should, impress those stupid bastards in the media a little evil:

CC-130 Hercules

The Hercules, considered to be one of the most versatile transport planes, is used to airlift troops, equipment and cargo, in Search and Rescue (SAR) operations and in air-to-air refuelling of fighters.

The Hercules can be loaded and unloaded quickly, with little equipment, and is especially useful in delivering supplies because it does not need a lot of room to land.

The plane can also be easily re-configured to carry fuel. During Operation Boxtop, the restocking of Canadian Forces Station Alert, the northernmost permanent habitation in the world, Hercules' are fitted with large fuel tanks to transport more than 100 planeloads of fuel.

Since entering the fleet in 1960, the Hercules has delivered humanitarian aid to trouble spots around the world. Recently, Canadian Hercules crews ferried emergency relief supplies to tens of thousands of refugees forced out of Kosovo by the Serbian campaign of ethnic cleansing.

Heh, I just read up on the daisycutters. Instant LZ.

Ok, Here is my opinion:

First off, this is WAR. SHIT HAPPENS - FRIENDLY FIRE HAPPENS. I don't think those pilots intended to kill those Canadian soldiers...

Should they be punished?? YES. Just to get those radical Canadians off our backs. I personally think it's bullshit to say they should be 'treated' as 'murderers'. If that was so, every countries military should be locked up in prison for murder. IT'S THIER JOB TO KILL. Perhaps not an ally, but FF happens and I DON'T think it was on purpose...

The most they should do is strip them of thier career.

For you biased motherfuckers (you know who you are): I have nothing against Canadians... I even have a bunch of fellahs over in Toronto that I party with, and there are Canadians on these boards that I'm friends with.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree. Shit happens.

Welcome to War. Friendly Fire happens. If you check into history you will find it in most of the wars of modern day. It's not fun and it's not nice but it happens.

Yeah it's sad but hey, no one ever said life was gonna be fair, or war for that matter.

It's the fault of the idiot who ofrgot to inform the pilots that there were friendlies in the area.

If I saw tracers flying and didn't know that there are supposed to be friendlies nearby I would also bomb the machingun before it started to take chunks out of my wing.

and don't they have some kind of pylons that friendlies are supposed to lay out so aircraft can ID them?

You know, it could be our uniforms. I heard the new CADPAT uniforms are supposed to neutralise your heat signature ed:.

[quote="Sgt Stryker":40b7a]and don't they have some kind of pylons that friendlies are supposed to lay out so aircraft can ID them?[/quote:40b7a]
Yes, each Canadian had some sort of an infared emitter on their helmet so that friendly aircraft could id them, plus the training feild was marked with infared strobe things. The pilots should have known it was a friendly training ground.

[quote="redhawk_six":054d7][quote="Sgt Stryker":054d7]and don't they have some kind of pylons that friendlies are supposed to lay out so aircraft can ID them?[/quote:054d7]
Yes, each Canadian had some sort of an infared emitter on their helmet so that friendly aircraft could id them, plus the training feild was marked with infared strobe things. The pilots should have known it was a friendly training ground.[/quote:054d7]

This is a quote from a news article at the vet forums. Canadian Capt. Joseph Jasper "Jasper testified Tuesday that more than half of his men had covered up blinking red lights on their helmets, which they normally used for safety reasons during live-ammunition exercises, because the blinking sometimes bothered helicopter pilots landing at an airfield about three miles away".

I think as this thing drags out, that blame could be placed on everyone, the biggest mistake (besides the bombing) seems to be a lack of communication.

That's another thing, Kandahar (I know I probably didn't spell that right), was only a few KM's away, and was brightly lit, the pilots should have known that they were in friendly territory.

it all boils down to the fact that the pilots were told to hold fire by the AWACS crew and seconds later dropped the bomb anyway.

Never in the history of the United States of America has any soldier in any armed force been court marshalled for friendly fire in a combat situation.

Remember the facts, which seem to be conveniently ushered to the side and forgotten at this point:

- The Canadians did not identify themselves.
- The Canadians were somewhere they weren't supposed to be.
- The pilots were ordered to engage ground troops if plausible (Check the articles from when this first happened, should be in CNN archives)
- They thought they were being attacked

So, let's review what you'd do in the situation. You're flying around in a loud-as-hell, hear-me-coming-8-miles-away fighter jet. You make a couple passes over an old training camp for recon, to make sure no one is still hiding there. You happen to spot a small group of people in camo and carrying weapons, possibly Stingers left from the CIA's stay in Afghanistan. You know no one is supposed to be there. These people neglect to signal they're friendly.

I don't care what any of you say, I would drop bombs. And anyone who persecutes those two men for doing as they're trained to do is simply wrong. The fault lies in faulty communications, faulty planning, and neglect on the part of the ground troops. Not in the man who pulled the trigger.

The casualties incurred from the incident were a great tragedy, and I would wish no father to have to bury his son. However, this was a war. These things happen in war, and no one has a right to persecute these two men. Period.

And isn't it great how the AWACs crew just happened to remember that they told them to hold fire, what, months later?

[quote="Captain Noctis Aeternus":845f3]

Remember the facts, which seem to be conveniently ushered to the side and forgotten at this point:

- The Canadians did not identify themselves.
- The Canadians were somewhere they weren't supposed to be.
- The pilots were ordered to engage ground troops if plausible (Check the articles from when this first happened, should be in CNN archives)

.[/quote:845f3]

#1. the canadians were where they were supposed to be, On a live fire training mission. .
#2 the pilots were ORDERED not to fire until confirmation. As in an article in the paper today "pilots did not give enough time" and he also requested to fire his machine gun on them (something to that matter it was a busy day) wich they say is very rare.

Also in the "did not give enough time" no location was given when reporting in the fire. So it was obviosly much harder for them to figure out back at the command station if they were friendlies when they werent given any location.

I'll say it again, SHIT HAPPENS.