Anit-War Thread
 

Well we've had so many pro-war threads and if truly AA is gonna be shut down, I thought we should have at least one Anti-war Thread. Before you start flamming me, read Senator Byrds comments to the Senate, its a little long be well done.

[quote:f1262]One voice on war amid sound of Senate silence
By SEN. ROBERT BYRD

To contemplate war is to think about the most horrible of human experiences. On this February day, as this nation stands at the brink of battle, every American on some level must be contemplating the horrors of war. Yet, this chamber is, for the most part, silent -- ominously, dreadfully silent. There is no debate, no discussion, no attempt to lay out for the nation the pros and cons of this particular war. There is nothing. We stand passively mute in the U.S. Senate, paralyzed by our own uncertainty, seemingly stunned by the sheer turmoil of events.

Only on the editorial pages of our newspapers is there much substantive discussion of the prudence or imprudence of engaging in this particular war. And this is no small conflagration we contemplate. This is no simple attempt to defang a villain. No. This coming battle, if it materializes, represents a turning point in U.S. foreign policy and possibly a turning point in the recent history of the world. This nation is about to embark upon the first test of a revolutionary doctrine applied in an extraordinary way at an unfortunate time. The doctrine of pre-emption -- the idea that the United States or any other nation can legitimately attack a nation that is not imminently threatening but may be threatening in the future -- is a radical new twist on the traditional idea of self-defense. It appears to be in contravention of international law and the U.N. Charter. And it is being tested at a time of worldwide terrorism, making many countries around the globe wonder if they will soon be on our -- or some other nation's -- hit list.

High-level administration figures recently refused to take nuclear weapons off of the table when discussing a possible attack against Iraq. What could be more destabilizing and unwise than this type of uncertainty, particularly in a world where globalism has tied the vital economic and security interests of many nations so closely together? There are huge cracks emerging in our time-honored alliances, and U.S. intentions are suddenly subject to damaging worldwide speculation. Anti-Americanism based on mistrust, misinformation, suspicion and alarming rhetoric from U.S. leaders is fracturing the once solid alliance against global terrorism which existed after Sept. 11.

Here at home, people are warned of imminent terrorist attacks with little guidance as to when or where such attacks might occur. Family members are being called to active military duty, with no idea of the duration of their stay or what horrors they may face. Communities are being left with less than adequate police and fire protection. Other essential services are also short-staffed. The mood of the nation is grim. The economy is stumbling. Fuel prices are rising and may soon spike higher.

This administration, now in power for a little over two years, must be judged on its record. I believe that that record is dismal. In that scant two years, this administration has squandered a large projected surplus of some $5.6 trillion over the next decade and taken us to projected deficits as far as the eye can see. This administration's domestic policy has put many of our states in dire financial condition, underfunding scores of essential programs for our people. This administration has fostered policies which have slowed economic growth. This administration has ignored urgent matters such as the crisis in health care for our elderly. This administration has been slow to provide adequate funding for homeland security. This administration has been reluctant to better protect our long and porous borders. In foreign policy, this administration has failed to find Osama bin Laden. In fact, just [last week] we heard from him again marshaling his forces and urging them to kill. This administration has split traditional alliances, possibly crippling, for all time, international order-keeping entities like the United Nations and NATO. This administration has called into question the traditional worldwide perception of the United States as well-intentioned, peacekeeper. This administration has turned the patient art of diplomacy into threats, labeling and name-calling of the sort that reflects quite poorly on the intelligence and sensitivity of our leaders, and which will have consequences for years to come.

Calling heads of state pygmies, labeling whole countries as evil, denigrating powerful European allies as irrelevant -- these types of crude insensitivities can do our great nation no good. We may have massive military might, but we cannot fight a global war on terrorism alone. We need the cooperation and friendship of our time-honored allies as well as the newer found friends whom we can attract with our wealth. Our awesome military machine will do us little good if we suffer another devastating attack on our homeland which severely damages our economy. Our military manpower is already stretched thin, and we will need the augmenting support of those nations who can supply troop strength, not just sign letters cheering us on. The war in Afghanistan has cost us $37 billion so far, yet there is evidence that terrorism may already be starting to regain its hold in that region. We have not found bin Laden, and unless we secure the peace in Afghanistan, the dark dens of terrorism may yet again flourish in that remote and devastated land. Pakistan as well is at risk of destabilizing forces.

This administration has not finished the first war against terrorism and yet it is eager to embark on another conflict with perils much greater than those in Afghanistan. Is our attention span that short? Have we not learned that after winning the war one must always secure the peace? And yet we hear little about the aftermath of war in Iraq. In the absence of plans, speculation abroad is rife. Will we seize Iraq's oil fields, becoming an occupying power which controls the price and supply of that nation's oil for the foreseeable future? To whom do we propose to hand the reigns of power after Saddam Hussein? Will our war inflame the Muslim world resulting in devastating attacks on Israel? Will Israel retaliate with its own nuclear arsenal? Will the Jordanian and Saudi Arabian governments be toppled by radicals, bolstered by Iran, which has much closer ties to terrorism than Iraq? Could a disruption of the world's oil supply lead to a worldwide recession? Has our senselessly bellicose language and our callous disregard of the interests and opinions of other nations increased the global race to join the nuclear club and made proliferation an even more lucrative practice for nations which need the income? In only the space of two short years, this reckless and arrogant administration has initiated policies which may reap disastrous consequences for years. One can understand the anger and shock of any president after the savage attacks of Sept. 11. One can appreciate the frustration of having only a shadow to chase and an amorphous, fleeting enemy on which it is nearly impossible to exact retribution. But to turn one's frustration and anger into the kind of extremely destabilizing and dangerous foreign policy debacle that the world is currently witnessing is inexcusable from any administration charged with the awesome power and responsibility of guiding the destiny of the greatest superpower on the planet.

Frankly, many of the pronouncements made by this administration are outrageous. There is no other word. Yet this chamber is hauntingly silent. On what is possibly the eve of horrific infliction of death and destruction on the population of the nation of Iraq -- a population, I might add, of which over 50 percent is under age 15 -- this chamber is silent. On what is possibly only days before we send thousands of our own citizens to face unimagined horrors of chemical and biological warfare -- this chamber is silent. On the eve of what could possibly be a vicious terrorist attack in retaliation for our attack on Iraq, it is business as usual in the U.S. Senate. We are truly "sleepwalking through history."

In my heart of hearts, I pray that this great nation and its good and trusting citizens are not in for a rudest of awakenings. To engage in war is always to pick a wild card. And war must always be a last resort, not a first choice. I truly must question the judgment of any president who can say that a massive unprovoked military attack on a nation which is over 50 percent children is "in the highest moral traditions of our country." This war is not necessary at this time. Pressure appears to be having a good result in Iraq. Our mistake was to put ourselves in a corner so quickly. Our challenge is to now find a graceful way out of a box of our own making. Perhaps there is still a way if we allow more time.

This is adapted from a speech made by Byrd, the West Virginia Democrat, on the floor of the U.S. Senate on Feb.[/quote:f1262]
flame on

soooo... this is the "anit" war thread?

i wonder where the "anti" war thread is? oOo:

yes, if you read, this is the ANTI WAR thread. oOo:

And if you read you'll just see he was making a joke about the misspelling of "anti".


whoa, we're flaming already and we havnt even started talking about the war.

I'm pro war

You know that Senator was a member of the KKK and appeser.

KKK eh? Hmm Im pro war too anyway though

GOTO HELL YOU FUCKING HIPPY!!

[quote="Art Attack":a4542]GOTO HELL YOU FUCKING HIPPY!![/quote:a4542] pro war = for war

tardie

...War-mongers....I'd like to see you screaming that shit after being on the front-lines... hake:

I'm anti-war. Not much point in going to Iraq, and to those saying it's about oil, Alberta alone has more oil than Iraq. I also doubt Iraq has ICBM's so I don't think that Saddam can strike american soil. I believe the only reason for war is when your homeland is DIRECTLY threatened. Call me a hippy if you want, doesn't bother me.

Yes this is an anti war or more correctly anti Bush article. I don't claim to be for or againts war on Iraq/bush, I just think that this guy has a good point. As far as the KKK thing goes, that wouldn't suprise me he's from W. Virginia and they have there own laws there. I am no hippie, although I do like the "Dead" hmmm.

It dosnt work like that anymore, this war would probly be fought with unmanned drones, special-op teams, and lots of planes and missles. Anyway, im still anti-war, not because of what would happen to us, but what would happen to Iraq. It wouldnt solve any problems, just delay the inevitable and make it harder to fix the problem in the end.

My god did I just agree with Tripper? oOo:

USE YOUR HEAD AND THINK
 

do you think for one little second that saddam would not sell or give his weapons to anyone who would bring them into this country. if he thought they would do it im sure hed be more then happy to give the crap away. SO YOU DONT THINK SADDAM CAN STRIKE AMERICAN SOIL HUH..i bet you didnt think osama bin ladden could reach this country either did ya. had bin ladden been delt with 2 years ago before the trade center all those people would be alive today..SAY THANK YOU BILL CLINTON...he bombed the twin towers..clinton did nothing....they blew a huge hole in the side of the navy ship killing our seamen...again clinton did nothing knowing full well who did it. which brings us to saddam..more then capable of the same type of shit...so just keep on stickin your head in the sand and let saddam go about his merry way until him and his cohorts decide what theyll do next...SCREW THAT !!!! we take him outa the game now so well all be safe tomarrow.

[img]http://www.dodstudios.net/uploads/uploads/gheyyousa-gay.jpg[/img]

JACKASS
 

and as for you...IVE BEEN ON THE FRONT LINES !!! and i say kill that son of a bitch before he has a chance to kill americans. NOW YOU CAN CALL ME A WAR MONGER.by the way..if i had the good fourtain to have saddams ear in my cross hairs i would not hesitate for a second to splatter grey matter all over the country side. ive done it before and would gladly do it again.

it says anit oOo:

Sitting on the ground shitting your pants because you dropped your gun in a game of paintball isn't the "FRONT LINES."


[img]http://www.dodstudios.net/uploads/uploads/capslock.jpg[/img]

happy:

Anyway the point is FAGTCHER that taking out Sadam wont solve the problem. It will only make it worse. The people well hate us even more, and they well rebulid nuclear weapons. It dosnt solve the problem, its only a temporary solution.

Re: USE YOUR HEAD AND THINK
 

Yes, some of what you said is true. Most of it is just "patriotic" garble, but I'm not gonna get hung up on that. I think dealing with international terrorism should be dealt with in a different fashion, you can't stop violence with more violence, that is very illogical. Your gov't is dealing with terrorism in the fashion that you dealt with drug trafficking, and there's more drugs on the streets than ever before. People gotta learn from mistakes. That's all I'm going to say for now.

I don't want war, I just want Saddam's head on a plate. biggrin:

I'm sure the CIA can arrange that.

Hmmm let's see, in the early 80's, we sent Marines into Beirut, with good intentions to regulate peace in the area. But we really didn't understand the people, the culture, and the next thing you know we have a trucks flying around loaded with explosives, driving into our barracks and killing our boys. We say "F it" and bail. The region continues to be unstable.

Then we go into Somalia, and I really don't have to get into it, we all know what happens. Good intentions, we don't understand the people, our boys die, we bail.

Now let's consider Iraq. Sure they don't like Saddam, but guess what? We invade, occupy, and they will like us even less. Hmmmmmmmmm....good intentions, don't understand......you get the drift.


Problem is, it won't be any of you dying, so it's pretty damn easy to be so gung-ho eh?

Exactly. Let's say China invades America and occupys it, good intentions and all. You think you're going to make China's stay in America easy?

These terrorists have support from the people, who are very devout muslims. So we must gain their support through religion.

Screw that, send me in! Or do we forget:

[img]http://www.dodstudios.net/uploads/uploads/joe-mache.jpg[/img]

God I love that. LMAO

[quote="Bazooka_Joe":9dcca]I don't want war, I just want Saddam's head on a plate. biggrin:[/quote:9dcca]

Yep I agree with this. Someone tell me why this country got outta doing assasinations? Don't give me ethics or morality bullshit either. We all know a quick one in saddam's head would end this, with no american lives lost.

Because if we fuck up it makes us look like shit.

[quote="GreenEggs&Pot":05d05]Because if we fuck up it makes us look like shit.[/quote:05d05]

At the same time that we have to show we are the American Bad-asses who take no crap for anyone, we also have to be enforcers of the peace and freedom. A sudden unjust attack, like a terrorist country would do, would make us look as shamed on as them.

[quote="GreenEggs&Pot":f5dc9]happy:

Anyway the point is FAGTCHER that taking out Sadam wont solve the problem. It will only make it worse. The people well hate us even more, and they well rebulid nuclear weapons. It dosnt solve the problem, its only a temporary solution.[/quote:f5dc9]

so what your saying is..its like a bully when your in school..if i let him beat me up today.. maybe he wont beat me up tomarrow. my theory is this. if i come upside the bullies head today with a 2x4 he wont screw with me tomarrow or any other day. and then theres always the theory ...kill the head and the body will die. im not so sure all the people in iraq love saddam as much as you think they do. remember if they dont agree with everything he says..their killed. you might be surprised what happens to that country after joe gets his head on that platter. by the way...i thought we were exchanging ideas here. that FAGTCHER comment just proves the fact that you dont have enough since to carry on a conversation anyway..so your whinny assed ideas dont carry much weight.

SIG PIC
 

ill only say this...if that sig is your picture. YOU SIR...ARE AN IDIOT.!!!!

[quote=BUTCH]so what your saying is..its like a bully when your in school..if i let him beat me up today.. maybe he wont beat me up tomarrow. my theory is this. if i come upside the bullies head today with a 2x4 he wont screw with me tomarrow or any other day. and then theres always the theory ...kill the head and the body will die. im not so sure all the people in iraq love saddam as much as you think they do. remember if they dont agree with everything he says..their killed. you might be surprised what happens to that country after joe gets his head on that platter. by the way...i thought we were exchanging ideas here. that FAGTCHER comment just proves the fact that you dont have enough since to carry on a conversation anyway..so your whinny assed ideas dont carry much weight.[/quote:7713b]

No, they don't like Saddam. But they will like us even less. I guarantee it.

[quote=Totenkopf]No, they don't like Saddam. But they will like us even less. I guarantee it.[/quote:e37f7]


I DISAGREE...i bet when its all said and done. and of course well give them all the aid and money to rebuild whatever we flatten. after saddam and his henchmen are gone. maybe those people will be able to elect a leader of their choice instead of being killed for disagreeing with the asshole. remember what happened last time. they surendered in droves yelling we love george bush. that dont exactly sound like people who support their leader to the death. sounds to me like they were pretty much forced to fight like it or not. i think they would have choosen not. i think those people are like most everyone else. they just want to live their lives in peace. its like the wizzard of oz. DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD. everybody followed the witch till she was dead. then it was a different story. this aint a movie but itll have the same ending.

[quote=BUTCH]
I DISAGREE...i bet when its all said and done. and of course well give them all the aid and money to rebuild whatever we flatten. after saddam and his henchmen are gone. maybe those people will be able to elect a leader of their choice instead of being killed for disagreeing with the -------. remember what happened last time. they surendered in droves yelling we love george bush. that dont exactly sound like people who support their leader to the death. sounds to me like they were pretty much forced to fight like it or not. i think they would have choosen not. i think those people are like most everyone else. they just want to live their lives in peace. its like the wizzard of oz. DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD. everybody followed the witch till she was dead. then it was a different story. this aint a movie but itll have the same ending.[/quote:7e570]

LOL...you don't have a clue about Middle-Eastern culture or it's people. I suggest you pick up the book, "From Beirut to Jerusalem", by Thomas Friedman, and do a little learning. History has proven that democracies do not work in the Middle East due to long standing cultures and beliefs. In addition, the people may hate Saddam, but no matter who their ruler is, they will always hate the infidel defiler foreigners more. Look at Bin Laden, we didn't do a damn thing to his home country, Saudi Arabia, but hang out there for awhile. Yet his intense dislike for us comes just from the fact that we were there.....and not even in an occupying role.

Saddam has to be dealt with, but an all out invasion of Iraq is not the answer. It will only lead to more terrorism and death.

No, Im saying that after you beat the bully and kill him his friends will come after you and then your screwed.

Look at Somalia. The US tried helping the ppl over there with food and stability but were returned with Ak-47 blazing and resulting in hundreds dead.

Why do people even start threads like this

Especially starting with a quote from another thread, seriosully, all you do is start a flame war

becasue ppl jsut refuse to the fact that others have different opinions and beliefs and want to always prove they are right.

I hear that...you are probably the first one in awile that didn't tie my post into somethign to do with hating America.

If someone believes something, just deal with it, you like hockey, they don't, so what, same with this.

We dont like hockey you Sadam-Loving cock sucker.... oOo:

please dont take me seriously here....