Bush: God wants us to attack Iraq
 

now, i dont want you all to get in a flame war or flame ME for this post but i just thought id post this article & let you all think about it for a while. again, please dont flame ME for this.

[quote:3828c]New York Times
March 11, 2003

How a War Became a Crusade

By JACKSON LEARS

NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J.
President Bush's war plans are risky, but Mr. Bush is no gambler. In fact he denies the very existence of chance. "Events aren't moved by blind change and chance" he has said, but by "the hand of a just and faithful God." From the outset he has been convinced that his presidency is part of a divine plan, even telling a friend while he was governor of Texas, "I believe God wants me to run for president."

This conviction that he is doing God's will has surfaced more openly since 9/11. In his State of the Union addresses and other public forums, he has presented himself as the leader of a global war against evil. As for a war in Iraq, "we do not claim to know all the ways of Providence, yet we can trust in them." God is at work in world affairs, he says, calling for the United States to lead a liberating crusade in the Middle East, and "this call of history has come to the right country."

Mr. Bush's speeches are not the only place one finds this providentialist spirit — everyone from Christian fundamentalists to interventionist liberals is serving up missionary formulas: bogus analogies to the war against Hitler; contrasts between American virtue and European vice; denials that sordid material interests could have anything to do with the exalted project of exporting American democracy.

To those who worry about the frequent use of religious language, Mr. Bush's supporters insist that the rhetoric of Providence is as American as cherry pie. This is true, but it is crucial to understand that Providence can acquire various meanings depending on the circumstances. The belief that one is carrying out divine purpose can serve legitimate needs and sustain opposition to injustice, but it can also promote dangerous simplifications — especially if the believer has virtually unlimited power, as Mr. Bush does. The slide into self-righteousness is a constant threat.

The great rhetoricians of Providence have resisted the temptation of self-righteousness. When the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. wrote from a Birmingham jail that "we will win our freedom because the sacred heritage of our nation and the eternal will of God are embodied in our echoing demands," he was seeking common ground with white Southerners, not predicting perdition for satanic segregationists.

Likewise, when Abraham Lincoln invoked Providence in his second inaugural address, his message to the victorious North and the defeated South was one of reconciliation. By characterizing the Civil War as a national expiation for the sin of slavery, he wanted "to bind up the nation's wounds" and make some moral sense of the appalling losses on both sides. At its best, providentialist thinking can offer a powerful antidote to self-righteousness.

Too often, though, American politicians and moralists have reduced faith in Providence to a religious sanction for raw power. In the 1840's, with the emergence of the idea that the United States had a manifest destiny to expand to the Pacific, the hand of God was no longer mysterious (as in traditional Christian doctrine) but "manifest" in American expansion. As for the natives who unproductively occupied the Great Plains, Horace Greeley, the journalist, said in 1859: "`These people must die out — there is no help for them. God has given this earth to those who will subdue and cultivate it, and it is vain to struggle against his righteous decree."

By the end of the century, Senator Albert Beveridge and other imperialists had made Manifest Destiny a global project, insisting that God had "marked" the American people to lead in "the redemption of the world."

In the wake of World War I, Woodrow Wilson showed that it was possible to use redemptive rhetoric for aims that went beyond nationalism, and yet to still fall victim to hubris. By intervening in the war and ensuring a just peace, said Wilson, "America had the infinite privilege of fulfilling her destiny and saving the world."

The failure of Wilson's postwar dream helped make most Americans skeptical of world-saving fantasies during World War II. Thus our most necessary war was also the most resistant to providentialist interpretation. It was a dirty job, and somebody had to do it: that was the dominant view, among policymakers and the public. Only in retrospect has World War II acquired an aura of sanctity.

To be sure, the cold war fitfully revived the nationalist uses of Providence, at least among true believers like Secretary of State John Foster Dulles — not to mention Ronald Reagan, whose rhetoric arrayed the "city on a hill" against the Soviet "evil empire." But for most Americans, the failed crusade in Vietnam eviscerated the delusion that we had a sacred duty to export American ways — by force if necessary — to a recalcitrant world.

Until now. The proposed war against and rebuilding of Iraq has brought the sentimental, self-satisfied sense of Providence back into fashion. One might have supposed that an attack on our country would have rendered utopian agendas unnecessary — as it did for most Americans during World War II. But while a war on terrorism may not need Providence to justify it, a war to transform the Middle East requires a rhetoric as grandiose as its aims. The providentialist outlook fills the bill: it promotes tunnel vision, discourages debate and reduces diplomacy to arm-twisting.

Worst of all, it sanitizes the messy actualities of war and its aftermath. Like the strategists' faith in smart bombs, faith in Providence frees one from having to consider the role of chance in armed conflict, the least predictable of human affairs. Between divine will and American know-how, we have everything under control. So the White House and its backers can safely predict that the unpleasantness will be over in a few weeks, with low casualties on both sides.

Combat veterans, from Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf down, reject these scenarios. We can be sure that the soldiers in the Persian Gulf region do, too. This should come as no surprise: there has always been a chasm between the war planners and the soldiers on the ground. The planners are convinced that they can control outcomes; the soldiers know the arbitrary cruelties of fate at first hand — maiming this one, leaving that one alone. They know the power of luck.

There may be no atheists in foxholes, but there are not many believers in Providence in them either. Combat soldiers have always been less confident than politicians that God is on the premises. They have paid homage to an older deity, Fortuna. From the Civil War through the Persian Gulf war, American soldiers have festooned themselves with amulets and lucky charms — everything from St. Christopher medals and smooth stones to their girlfriends' locks of hair. And why not? Ritual efforts to conjure luck speak directly to their own experience.

But the power of providentialist thinking persists, drawing strength from the fervent beliefs of Christian, Islamic and Jewish fundamentalists. The more humane interpreters of those traditions are increasingly ignored, and the ideologues take command, convinced that they are doing God's will.

Certainly those of us who doubt the divinity (not to mention the efficacy) of the president's plan must continue to challenge it. But as we watch Mr. Bush prepare for righteous battle, ignoring the protests of "old Europe" and many in his own country, even the most rational among us might be pardoned for fingering a rabbit's foot from time to time.[/quote:3828c]

i told you this was going to be a religious war

OMG, hes interperating the bible waaaaaaaaaay wrong.

it always is.

great! Now all the arabs think this will be a crusade! oOo:

it already is a fukin crusade

[img]http://66.24.42.198/jesus.jpg[/img]

Jesus Loves You!

All Bush has to do now is equip his soldiers with crosses.

Well, those muslims pray to a different invisible man from us, I dunno about you but that is the perfect reason to bomb the middle east. (sarcasm)

Theres more religions in the Armed Forces than Christanity...There's minorites of Jews and Muslims in the Military....So a crusade would be an irrelevant reason.

psh i think bush is fighting this war for the jews, i dont see why but the us backs the jews in jerusalam even tho islam is the fastest growing religion and there are more of muslims in america than jews....

too much reading involved

lol so you just spam?

You know what ? Fuck it, they can have their little Holy war against the West we can have our little Holy war against the Muslims. Seems fair to me.

I disagree. If that was the case, why not persecute Muslims here? This is NOT a war against Islam. Like I have said previously, Muslims have more freedom to practice their religion here, than in their respective homelands.

If you want to examine the flipside of that, havrn'tt Islamic zealots invoked the name of Allah in the spilling of blood? Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Abu Nidal and others, all say Allah demands the death of Jews and Christians? Which is a lie. Pick up the Koran and learn what jihad REALLY means.

Crusade? I think not.

I agree.

[quote="Jedi Marksman":925b5]I disagree. If that was the case, why not persecute Muslims here? This is NOT a war against Islam. Like I have said previously, Muslims have more freedom to practice their religion here, than in their respective homelands.

If you want to examine the flipside of that, havrn'tt Islamic zealots invoked the name of Allah in the spilling of blood? Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Abu Nidal and others, all say Allah demands the death of Jews and Christians? Which is a lie. Pick up the Koran and learn what jihad REALLY means.

Crusade? I think not.[/quote:925b5]

Where or where is the EDIT button? i hate having misspelled words in my posts.

I disagree with the article. The arthor had to go back a half dozen years to get 3 or 4 vauge references made by bush but offers none of the dozens of statements Bush had made to the contrary as an opposing view. The guy is reaching and thinks way too much. He has missed the forrest for the trees.

ANd if you couldnt tell before, which must be hard....I wasnt serious. The last thing this world needs is some Holy war to end all wars. I agree with Pest and Jedi.

also, think about bush. he sounds like one of those whacos from the south.

[quote="Sargent_Scrotum":60a56]also, think about bush. he sounds like one of those whacos from the south.[/quote:60a56]


Du - Du - DUR!

I wonder why??

CAUSE HE'S FROM THE SOUTH!

Wow, I think all of your President are whacos from the "north" because they say "eh" too much.

Fucking shmuck.

hey! our prime minister dosent belive gods great plan was to have him as prime minister & belive that god wants the iraquies dead.

so what bush is our president. Truth is he is just another person. IF we dont liek what hes doing we can have his ass thrown out. But that hasnt happened yet so I think well end up in a small war. As for a holy war. Nah Im sure the iraquies will surrender before the first hour of the war is over so. All that freaking oiw is going to be OURS ALL OURS!!! evil:

[quote="Cpt. Zapotoski":5c2c5]
Wow, I think all of your President are whacos from the "north" because they say "eh" too much.
[/quote:5c2c5]
Last time I checked canada has a Prime Minister not a president.


"I know it's hard for you to put food on your family"


i think god wants to forget that he created the race which DUBYA spawned from

Yeah right. . .man, give me a damn Mark 19 40MM grenade launcher and Apache air support, I'll take care of the bastards, and spit on their corpses saying "Tell Allah I said hello, there's your crusade."

[quote="Cpt. Zapotoski":2c563][quote="Sargent_Scrotum":2c563]also, think about bush. he sounds like one of those whacos from the south.[/quote:2c563]


Du - Du - DUR!

I wonder why??

CAUSE HE'S FROM THE SOUTH!

Wow, I think all of your President are whacos from the "north" because they say "eh" too much.

Fucking shmuck.[/quote:2c563]

haha owned

[quote="Bazooka_Joe":a328e]Yeah right. . .man, give me a damn Mark 19 40MM grenade launcher and Apache air support, I'll take care of the bastards, and spit on their corpses saying "Tell Allah I said hello, there's your crusade."[/quote:a328e]

yea right ur not even in the real army

[quote=cameltoe]yea right ur not even in the real army[/quote:7a514]

And you're not even in a military service, so go whine to someone else.

[quote="Sargent_Scrotum":1cf3e]also, think about bush. he sounds like one of those whacos from the south.[/quote:1cf3e]

hake:

[quote=Blitz]Last time I checked canada has a Prime Minister not a president.


"I know it's hard for you to put food on your family"


i think god wants to forget that he created the race which DUBYA spawned from[/quote:6d351]

Um. . .yeah. hake:

Bush is a stupid hic from the south he only wants war for the Iraqi oil thats all this was is about is oil. the prise of gas goes up in the US because Iraqi oil stoped comeing in so to drop the prise of the oil we have to get more thus Iraq.

[quote="A HUNGRY FATMAN":c06e0]Bush is a stupid hic from the south he only wants war for the Iraqi oil thats all this was is about is oil. the prise of gas goes up in the US because Iraqi oil stoped comeing in so to drop the prise of the oil we have to get more thus Iraq.[/quote:c06e0]

Umm....no. If we wanted iraqi oil, all we would need to do is lift the embargo. Oil prices are high because venezuela went off line with strikes with the pending war only a small variable. Look to opec for the reason, not iraq. Iraqi oil stopped coming 12 + years ago. Try looking up a fact before you post.

no
 

ugh well when there....... you know what, it's not worth it. eek:

Hey, God may really want Bush to do this. I really do hope Bush is asking God what to do.

bush is a god fearing man and will listen to god during his sleep and do exactly what god wants him to do.

This god goes by the name of Dick Cheney.......

That is a bunch of crap...

First of all, the article takes quotes out of context and tries to say what Bush meant by them, they cannot accurately do that, especially when they are the New York Times, possible the largest most biased leftist newspaper.

Many religious people think that God tells them to do things. They pray and pray and they get answers, not directly from God, but often something else would happen to make them feel like they know God's will. This does happen, but I know there are some atheists that have never thought of this before.

The author was obviously one of these atheists. He clearly does not understand a Christian point of view and tries to relate the relationship between a christian and god as a a joke.

This is not a religious war, Bush was saying that God was telling him that he was right, he needed to do this. He is not saying that the entire reason we are going is to please God, that was created by the author of this article.

This is just ridiculous

what game is in ur sig?

[quote="[DAS REICH] Blitz":c6a4a]what game is in ur sig?[/quote:c6a4a]

PM! Stupid spamster

[quote=Fallout]PM! Stupid spamster[/quote:5c74a]SPAM