Freakaloin you dont learn much history in USA. The hole german nation was brainwashed even in the school books there were propaganda. But that doesnt mean that the soldiers were all nazis. It was like in USA a duty to their country. Some were forced to fight like in USA. USA isnt a saint either like when you helped Pinochot to take the power in Chile just beacuse the goverment were communists and we all know what Pinochet did right?

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5th SS Panzer Division Wiking

thats exactley why germans were morons. a whole country brainwashed...pathetic(not tru however). the fact that hitler invaded a single country makes him a walking atrocity. and yet germans still followed him. take out the jews and he was still crazy and the ppl followed...morons... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lone_Wolf:
Freakaloin you dont learn much history in USA. The hole german nation was brainwashed even in the school books there were propaganda.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anyone can be brainwashed
Sometimes people are scared into believing

If you lived in German that in that time you would have been brainwashed too. Hitler and his many was were skilled on brainwashing and I mean VERY skilled

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5th SS Panzer Division Wiking

Yes and the German people were very susceptible to this sort of thing. The mark was worth nothing, they were miserable. Tons of people were unemployed...it was the early 30s a global depression when Nazism came to power. They needed a way out. Its times like that that allow dictators to arise.

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I am your surrogate mother

If you want to blame anyone... blame the Frogs and the British. Because really, if it weren't for them shiting on the Krauts in the Treaty of Versailles(sp?), the whole Second World War MAY never have happened. And if it weren't for the Great Depression compounding things, Hitler wouldn't have had the power he gained, but seeing as the whole country was in fiscal ruin these people needed something to bring them back to the SuperPower they once were. Hitler gave them that something, being the opportunist that he was, he used this moment of vulnerability to take over. He brought Germany back to life, he was their saviour. He was their Roosevelt. Given the circumstances, almost anybody would fall into this trap. They weren't supporting his "Final Solution", they were just fighting to bring Germany back to its former greatness. Well, now that concludes this weeks history lesson, and I can go a week without saying anything that pertains to anything.

Well, I'd rather be in the Red army. Communists believe all men are equal, and should be treated equal, everybody same opportunities, same income,... That is a nice theory, but difficult to bring in practice. Fascists believe the direct opposite.

And fascism can flourish anywhere, the people are not (wholly) to blame. It were the conditions of the time. The fact that it happened elsewhere shows that it is not something that is solely "German" (Mussolini in Italy, Franco in Spain). It's like Dice says.

see fereakazoid!!!!!! Also il say it again SOME PEOPLE TRYD TO KILL HITLER WHEN THE WAR WAS LOST.

I beg to differ. Although many German soldiers were said not to beleive in nazism, they still fought for, voluntarily or forced to, Hitler their supreme commander, and the advance of nazism throughout Europe.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soda, my personal favorite soda is Wild Cherry Pepsi, but Soda may not like wild cherry pepsi, he may like a different kind of soda all together
Well, I'd rather be in the Red army. Communists believe all men are equal, and should be treated equal, everybody same opportunities, same income<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Communist Army didn't work like that. There were still ranks, they would use their own people as cannon fodder, they would kill their own men for retreating, they'd use the people they conscripted from other countries to clear mine fields. The Red Army was a huge mess of undereducated, underequipped farmers. I would've wanted to be in a Western Allied Army, American or British, because they treated their soldiers the best.

I'm talking about what they were fighting for. And the choice was between the Hitler's troops and the Red army. Ofcourse I'd choose the Allies if that would be an option.

To believe that EVERYONE in Germany in the late 30's/40's were "brainwashed" by Hitler is not giving Germans credit. Most were scared of their way of life being changed or taken away. All were only given news censored (or created) by the Nazi's. I'm thinking they never really painted a rosey picture of the Allies. The world was much "bigger" back then, with no other choice than what was offered.

German soldiers were in WWI. German men were forced by gun point to help the Nazis take over. (Yes, the Nazis were a political party) WWII was the Nazis forces vs. the allies.... Alot of the Nazis however, didnt know about the killings, and the cause, because they didn't want to be there in the first place.

i knew that and i hope a lot of other people know that too that the regular German soldier wasnt a nazi. The only nazis in there where the SS

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAZAK:
i knew that and i hope a lot of other people know that too that the regular German soldier wasnt a nazi. The only nazis in there where the SS <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


shit there were 38+ division of SS...bud...and not ALL of them committed acts of Genocide....just SOME of them...and I can't say whether or not which ones KNEW about it.....

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Mein Ehre Heisst Treue
Das Geminschaft
2nd SS Panzer Division
http://dba.gamepoint.net/images/klaus.jpg

the majority of germans were not brainwashed, but they just sat back and did nothing.

To say that the average numbers of German soldiers were not nazi’s is as wrong as say that everybody was. Why is that? Simply because we don’t know. What we know is that Hitler was elected in a democratic election. That means the majority of the German citizens, including German soldiers, wanted him as their leader. Therefore the major part of the Germans (in that period) are responsible for the terror the European people experienced.

It’s correct that both sides committed war crimes, and that it is unacceptable.
However it seems like people outside Europe think of the war in a manner of great battlefields, heroes, glory, honor, and the fate of Jews.

I want to remind you about the fact that the people in Europe suffered terribly during the occupation. The condition in Poland was indescribable, and the condition in France, Czechoslovakia, Holland and Norway was not so much better. There are to many stories were the German soldiers behavior exceeded their duty.

Kids were shot as spies. They just wanted to see the German airplanes.
A lot of students were shot. For no reasons. It’s just a nice policy to prevent riots.
Union leaders were shot, because the employees didn’t work hard enough.
Kids were shot, when their parents (unarmed) tried to escape to Britain.
Have you ever heard about “Operation Freshman”? It’s about two British gliders, which crashed in Norway. All the soldiers who survived where executed. One soldier was paralyzed from the hip and down. He couldn’t stand by him self so they shot him lying on the ground.

The moral is. Hollywood is rarely historical correct. “The after war German generations” are not responsible for what happened, and don’t be to naive.

I'm gonna call em Nazis and I don't give a damn.

Whether or not they knew it, all German soldiers fought under the command of fucked up people who tried to exterminate an entire race of people and attempted world domination. Had they been given the chance, they would have NUKED the U.S. without thinking twice about it.

Any German soldier who fought for them was only helping them get closer and closer to accomplishing their diabolical schemes, therefore I refer to all of these Krauts as Nazis, regardless of whether or not they actually were sticking Jews into ovens.

Either way, they prolonged this process for as long as they could, thus making them supporters of Nazis, whether it was directly or indirectly.

You'll have to forgive me if I don't naively ignore every single statement I hear about "not all German soldier being Nazis." And if you don't, then deal with it...the same way I deal with the fact that my great grandparents were cremated alive.

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You don't know when to shut up, you don't know HOW to shut up.
I'm 'gonner shoot you in your big goddamn mouth. http://adwoff.com/pictures/icons/AR15firing.gif http://adwoff.com/pictures/icons/yell.gif

about 65 million ppl died in that war. way to go germans... http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

Germans are a proud, militaristic people. They didn't like the fact that they lost world war one, and promised to reverse those wrongs. Not so different from september 11th, in that we were wronged and we demanded justice. Just like the German people demanded it, except they didn't realize what they were getting themselves into. However, consider this: The average dogface/grunt fighting the German army in World war 2 wouldn't care if the Germans he was fighting were ts or democrats: they were fearfully effective fighters who killed off the grunt's buddies.

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Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole.
"Just call me Doom." - Flynn Taggert
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I'm too lazy to write new crap so I'm recycling my old material http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif:

"People may consider wehrmacht nazis because they had swastkas on their uniforms. Look at it this way; the swastka is the symbol of the nazis, therefore if you wear the symbol, you're a nazi. I personally don't believe that, but many people do."


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If you're so good at being a lesbian, then why do you turn me on? -Steve Carell(The Daily Show)
YOUR FAVORITE BAND SUCKS!!!!!!! - Me.
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I have 2 things to say:

Hitler gained power by cheating himself to the 'throne'. It was everything but a fair election. Also,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freakaloin:
Germans were a bunch of morons for following a meglomaniac like hitler. i say call em all nazi's. it's so pathetic that the silent majority in germany sit back and let hitler do what he did to the world.

duty to their country...puhlease...

friggin rednecks <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is too funny. Mr Freakaloin, just picture you're arrogant self in Germany after Hitler gained power. What would have happened if you went on the street and said stuff against Hitler? You would have been shot. I'm not saying that I know a lot about History, but I know for sure that you don't know what you're saying.

It was not a majority of the Germans that elected the Nazi-party. It was only 30%. Hitler took the power after the Reichstag-building was burned down. He prohibited the other parties because the country had to form a unity against the communistic terrorists.

And the Germans were brainwashed. It's hard to imagine, but if you live in an environment where the same message is repeated over and over again with no critics, you simply start to believe it. People didn't thought about it.
Plus, if you didn't joined the Army, you were considered a traitor and shot. So what had they to do? They were told to fight for their country and the German culture (ideology of the Nazis: based on nationalism and racism.)
And please, every war is dirty, none of the sides are always completely innocent. It's a part of "the art of war" http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/frown.gif
That was the ideology of the Nazis: nationalism and racism.

A swastika is in fact a very old german sign (similar to runes). It was a symbol of the german history, misused by the nazi party.

[This message has been edited by Soda (edited January 10, 2002).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freakaloin:
about 65 million ppl died in that war. Way to go Germans <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh...sure. From those 65 million, more than half werre killed by Americans, Soviets or Japanese.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Manny:
Oh...sure. From those 65 million, more than half werre killed by Americans, Soviets or Japanese. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who started the war?


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If you're so good at being a lesbian, then why do you turn me on? -Steve Carell(The Daily Show)
YOUR FAVORITE BAND SUCKS!!!!!!! - Me.
http://matrixturkey.homestead.com/files/sean.jpg

i am actually disgusted how little history some of you know!!!!

"If you want to blame anyone... blame the Frogs and the British. Because really, if it weren't for them shiting on the Krauts in the Treaty of Versailles"

qouted by kraut killer

actuall if it wasnt for president woodro wilson ( yes an american) dreming up great ideas for the new germany, going all the way to versailles and then speak aload of crap, it was mainly he who shitted on germany. And yes the brits and the french were a bit harsh and of course they could see 25 years into the future knowing that a corporal in the german army would become leader of germany and take over europe and bring the world into war. tell me were was the main part of the great war thought.... texas, miami,pittsburgh... no in northern france... that part of the country was devastated so i think they had the right to be slightly p o'd.

sorry about that but i dont think that america is allways as great as so many say!!!

haha after reading the thread name I knew this was going to be a war of words. Im sure what im about to say has been said, but just in case it hasn't :

You're right, not ALL german soldiers were nazis. But the fact of the matter is, a lot of germans and german soldiers during the late 30's and 40's, were nazis. And believed in what they were doing was right. Not all, but some.

If you look at the SS, you would see nazis. Because they were nazis.

Freakaloin, btw you are stupid, now if you did not accept being drafted into the war as an american/canadian/british/french or what not you'd be arrsted, at least in the USA for sure, now if you did not follow hitler you would be shot, and as would you're familiy, you're kids, you're wife, everyone close to, so you might as well pack you're bags and go to war and take the chance of figting and being able to come back home, got it? Good! Thats why there were good germans and bad germans the nazi's followed hitler all the way and made sure the rest of the germans fell in to.. Hitler was no dummy, a retard yes for what he did but one hell of an intelligent retard.

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http://www.j-body.org/registry/jbo/flaganim.gif Und wenn du dich auf den Kopf stellst!

none would have die if the japs and the germans wouldn't have invaded and attacks countries. puhlease <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Manny:
Oh...sure. From those 65 million, more than half werre killed by Americans, Soviets or Japanese. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol dumbass <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by spiewalk:
Freakaloin, btw you are stupid, now if you did not accept being drafted into the war as an american/canadian/british/french or what not you'd be arrsted, at least in the USA for sure, now if you did not follow hitler you would be shot, and as would you're familiy, you're kids, you're wife, everyone close to, so you might as well pack you're bags and go to war and take the chance of figting and being able to come back home, got it? Good! Thats why there were good germans and bad germans the nazi's followed hitler all the way and made sure the rest of the germans fell in to.. Hitler was no dummy, a retard yes for what he did but one hell of an intelligent retard.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you got something against that post retard? you wanna add anything to you're stupidity?

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http://www.j-body.org/registry/jbo/flaganim.gif Und wenn du dich auf den Kopf stellst!

Freakaloin :/ Go pick one of the new avatars plz :/ I r teh ranger, not you.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ramza:
Germans are a proud, militaristic people. They didn't like the fact that they lost world war one, and promised to reverse those wrongs. Not so different from september 11th, in that we were wronged and we demanded justice. Just like the German people demanded it, except they didn't realize what they were getting themselves into. However, consider this: The average dogface/grunt fighting the German army in World war 2 wouldn't care if the Germans he was fighting were ts or democrats: they were fearfully effective fighters who killed off the grunt's buddies.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're a fucking DUMBASS.
The German people did NOT want war.
I suggest you read BOTH All Quiet on the Western Fron and The Road Back
Both by Erich Maria Remarque.
Most Germans just wanted the war to be over.
WW1 was ancient history to most people.
The only people that wanted war were the high ranking officers that felt they were slapped in the face.

What a wonderfull discussion http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif Especially those who call all germans Nazis. Great point!! I'd go and stuff me old pipe an tell that to your children and within one generation your children are brainwashed in the same way. Why??? because you do not tell the truth then and thus making it impossible for your children to judge. Simple and clear. Get the point?

If not, please go read some good autobiographs and watch some good documentaries and not the "Hey I saved private RYan" docu's on prime time television. Take a good weekend around may and tune into DIscovery channel (Europe version). You will see what really happened.

ALso you might go and talk to the european elderly to get an idea. Hell, lot's of things went wrong those days. I will be the last to disagree on that. Also that a lot of German soldiers and officers were cold blooded "nazis". But there were in fact people who were different, but could not make a stand or were brutally forced. Take a look at the way how german soldiers were shot point blank by not following a command by their officers. That will show some discipline (and will ensure that no one speaks up).

See it the same way the US army dealt with gay soldiers some years ago. There were lots of them, but did they really make a stand for it?? Hell no, they'd be slaughtered by the others. Different story, same point.

A lot of german soldiers were nazi's? true. All? No. If you still think different I personally think you have absolutely no indepth information about the ww-II and react purely on emotion and that my dear friends is what makes the most wars start.

AMEN

Face it... It's not the common ppl who have any voice in any country, no not the US either... If the politicians want war, they'll create war. They will make it legitimize through the media and ppl joining to fight who blelieve they were doing the right thing... There are numerous proofs of this... WWI, WW2, vietnam, korea, cheztnia (or however that's spelled), yugoslavia, afghanistan... All those who are or have been fighting, have or will, realise that their or the other side has been lied to... face it, we're sheeps everyne of us...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freakaloin:
Germans were a bunch of morons for following a meglomaniac like hitler. i say call em all nazi's. it's so pathetic that the silent majority in germany sit back and let hitler do what he did to the world.

duty to their country...puhlease...

friggin rednecks <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


It's easy to sit back today and judge history with today's standards. If you lived in Germany and suffered through embarassing peace treaties and economic strife. By 1932 you would probably be pretty pissed off and might just go for a guy like Hitler, oh my.
As for calling Germans of the time rednecks, it doesn't deserve a response.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jesta:
I'm gonna call em Nazis and I don't give a damn.

Whether or not they knew it, all German soldiers fought under the command of fucked up people who tried to exterminate an entire race of people and attempted world domination. Had they been given the chance, they would have NUKED the U.S. without thinking twice about it.

Any German soldier who fought for them was only helping them get closer and closer to accomplishing their diabolical schemes, therefore I refer to all of these Krauts as Nazis, regardless of whether or not they actually were sticking Jews into ovens.

Either way, they prolonged this process for as long as they could, thus making them supporters of Nazis, whether it was directly or indirectly.

You'll have to forgive me if I don't naively ignore every single statement I hear about "not all German soldier being Nazis." And if you don't, then deal with it...the same way I deal with the fact that my great grandparents were cremated alive.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No way you can say Germany would have nuked the U.S when they had a bigger enemy to the East. And it sounds like you're arguing more with emotions than common sense.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>actuall if it wasnt for president woodro wilson ( yes an american) dreming up great ideas for the new germany, going all the way to versailles and then speak aload of crap, it was mainly he who shitted on germany. And yes the brits and the french were a bit harsh and of course they could see 25 years into the future knowing that a corporal in the german army would become leader of germany and take over europe and bring the world into war. tell me were was the main part of the great war thought.... texas, miami,pittsburgh... no in northern france... that part of the country was devastated so i think they had the right to be slightly p o'd.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From the History lessons I learned. Wilson made up a treaty called the '12 Points of Peace' which was very fair to all sides but congress turned it down in favor of the versailles.

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isn't this off topic and should be closed and moved to the BS forum like every other post here?

the mods here are the NAziS

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by: Lorenz
From the History lessons I learned. Wilson made up a treaty called the '12 Points of Peace' which was very fair to all sides but congress turned it down in favor of the versailles.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually this was called the 14 points plan and consisted of the following:

I. Open covenants of peace, openly arrived at, after which there shall be no private international understandings of any kind but diplomacy shall proceed always frankly and in the public view.

II. Absolute freedom of navigation upon the seas, outside territorial waters, alike in peace and in war, except as the seas may be closed in whole or in part by international action for the enforcement of international covenants.

III. The removal, so far as possible, of all economic barriers and the establishment of an equality of trade conditions among all the nations consenting to the peace and associating themselves for its maintenance.

IV. Adequate guarantees given and taken that national armaments will be reduced to the lowest point consistent with domestic safety.

V. A free, open-minded, and absolutely impartial adjustment of all colonial claims, based upon a strict observance of the principle that in determining all such questions of sovereignty the interests of the populations concerned must have equal weight with the equitable claims of the government whose title is to be determined.

VI. The evacuation of all Russian territory and such a settlement of all questions affecting Russia as will secure the best and freest cooperation of the other nations of the world in obtaining for her an unhampered and unembarrassed opportunity for the independent determination of her own political development and national policy and assure her of a sincere welcome into the society of free nations under institutions of her own choosing; and, more than a welcome, assistance also of every kind that she may need and may herself desire. The treatment accorded Russia by her sister nations in the months to come will be the acid test of their good will, of their comprehension of her needs as distinguished from their own interests, and of their intelligent and unselfish sympathy.

VII. Belgium, the whole world will agree, must be evacuated and restored, without any attempt to limit the sovereignty which she enjoys in common with all other free nations. No other single act will serve as this will serve to restore confidence among the nations in the laws which they have themselves set and determined for the government of their relations with one another. Without this healing act the whole structure and validity of international law is forever impaired.

VIII. All French territory should be freed and the invaded portions restored, and the wrong done to France by Prussia in 1871 in the matter of Alsace-Lorraine, which has unsettled the peace of the world for nearly fifty years, should be righted, in order that peace may once more be made secure in the interest of all.

IX. A readjustment of the frontiers of Italy should be effected along clearly recognizable lines of nationality.

X. The peoples of Austria-Hungary, whose place among the nations we wish to see safeguarded and assured, should be accorded the freest opportunity to autonomous development.

XI. Rumania, Serbia, and Montenegro should be evacuated; occupied territories restored; Serbia accorded free and secure access to the sea; and the relations of the several Balkan states to one another determined by friendly counsel along historically established lines of allegiance and nationality; and international guarantees of the political and economic independence and territorial integrity of the several Balkan states should be entered into.

XII. The Turkish portion of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely unmolested opportunity of autonomous development, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.

XIII. An independent Polish state should be erected which should include the territories inhabited by indisputably Polish populations, which should be assured a free and secure access to the sea, and whose political and economic independence and territorial integrity should be guaranteed by international covenant.

XIV. A general association of nations must be formed under specific covenants for the purpose of affording mutual guarantees of political independence and territorial integrity to great and small states alike.


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