USA VS. EUROPE - WHO WINS? (Disregarding nukes)
 

IMO - USA. Naval superiority, air superiority, and land superiority. Not to mention the mobility of the US military is so great...

Do not turn this into a flame/country bashing war. A logical debate about an illogical topic is requested. :)

Europe, definately. It'd be over in 5 days.

Are you fucking kidding? This will be a flame war by the 2nd Page.

Yeah, someone just lock it. Europe Wins, USA dies, along with Canada.

No, do not lock it! Why do you think Europe would win?

Europe has a kick ass navy....the armies arent bad...US has the best army in the world...and the best Air Force....so we would probably win. Our navy seals would destroy them. thats my opinion

Hell no. Every Military coordinated together in Europe would crush the United States into pieces. The SAS and KSK would destroy the SEALS and every other US Special Forces.

MBT's are equal on both sides, but since Europe is a continenant and not just one Counrty, we're talking about millions of tanks here, and also artillery.

Keep it civil and intelligent and it won't be locked.

Carry on...

Where is it to be fought? I dont think either would fare too well if they had to invade the others homeland.

IMO- The usa, if we follow a good battle plan. we send about 24 groups of 12 seals over while we special forces et over there and be stealth and take a look around, then once we have are seals and secret agents in there, we get our army, and marine over there and right befor headng in send a bunch of bombs over and invade. Imo that would destroy them in a matter of a month (since europe is skilled)

Millions? lol..right....
MBT's aren't quite as important when there are thousands of A10's, F14, F15, F16, F117, B2, B1, B52....you get the idea. Not to mention the sizable carrier fleet that we have.
Anyways, what makes you think Europe could coordinate attacks and defenses with great efficiency? There are so many countries, it would not be easy. A quick strike by the US against, say, Spain, would provide us with all the airbases we need to run massive campaigns against the rest of Europe.

LOCT!

oops before loctness i cant let this one go, you underestimate the SEALs capabilities. You only hear what the media shares about them, they are 100 times better than what you think they are.

IM A SHIT STIRRING FUCKTARD WHO THINKS HE CAN HACK DURR DURRRR.

Simo don't do that, I don't want this locked. Let's just have a nice debate about the military capacities of both the United States and Europe.

[quote="Capt. John Miller":e3ba0]oops before loctness i cant let this one go, you underestimate the SEALs capabilities. You only hear what the media shares about them, they are 100 times better than what you think they are.[/quote:e3ba0]

Yeah one of my friends brothers has this video of a ship coming into port and they refused a required search(post 9/11 shizzo) so some guy saw this put THERMAL imaging on his camera and recorded a group of seals (maybe liek 5) take overt this entire ship and kick some hard ass.

EUROPE would win because whats stoping them from asking china or even north korea to help them out


*flame war starts now*

Alfa (Spetznaz), GIGN, GSG9, KSK, SAS, OMON, SPAP, SEK > SEALS

Sure the US of A is the highest funded military in the world, but not as much as all of Europe combined. Of course if this conflict were ever to happen, it would be WW3... or maybe even WW4. It would be a bloody conflict that would probably last for years but in the end, I think America would lose. One country vs a whole fucking continent? Please.

the thing is....Europe isnt ONE country... Europe contains hundreds of countries each with their own strong point...the US is only one country...it depends on what countries we fight, where, when, and how...lets put this into perspective...this is like comparing Italian food to Mexican food...you cant really compare them...they are 2 different types of food with different tastes. they cannot be compared.

[quote="Capt. John Miller":613e9]oops before loctness i cant let this one go, you underestimate the SEALs capabilities. You only hear what the media shares about them, they are 100 times better than what you think they are.[/quote:613e9]


You also underestimate the SAS. A grouping of countries best fighting men vs the Navy SEALS. Stop being so ignorant and thinking the US Military is invincible, they're not.

And Office Depot, all of those aircraft wouldn't have time to be tank killing while they're scrambling dog fights in the sky.

It depends on the US objectives. Europe has no way to attack the US across miles of ocean covered by 12 carrier battle groups, around 30 688i SSNs, something like 500 F-15s and 2000 F-16s.

Europe has a shitty French carrier and 2 British Harrier-carriers (somehow I think the British would side with the US)
the US has 12 fleet carriers and 12 LHAs (double as Harrier-carrier) plus dozens of Aegis cruisers and destroyers. Aegis, being designed to counter Soviet "Granit" (NATO SS-N-20 Shipwreck) anti-ship missiles, can shoot down anything anyone can throw at it biggrin:

A land invasion would be more difficult, but the US could easily blockade water shipping routes to Europe.

about Alfa:

I doubt Russia would side with continental Europe, old suspicions die hard, plus Europe was being pretty whiny about defending Chechen terrorists' "rights" while the US more or less supports Russia's actions.

you have to remember its not about who is siding with who. We know this will never happen so the sides cannot be argued. It is USA vs Europe, no siding. It doesnt really matter because this is pointless

[quote="Sgt Stryker":b0c7d]about Alfa:

I doubt Russia would side with continental Europe, old suspicions die hard, plus Europe was being pretty whiny about defending Chechen terrorists' "rights" while the US more or less supports Russia's actions.[/quote:b0c7d]

Yes, but the question was the United States vs. Europe, where the hell is Russia?

Besides, if the USA invaded Europe, you'd be going up against the whole world. Far more countries have ties with Europe and than America. China would counter attack from the west and you'd be fighting on two fronts. UK, France, Spain and Italy would invade the eastern seaboard. Canada would invade from the north backed by the Russians and Chinese and This mock war would be over.

[quote="Sgt Stryker":44e05]It depends on the US objectives. Europe has no way to attack the US across miles of ocean covered by 12 carrier battle groups, around 30 688i SSNs, something like 500 F-15s and 2000 F-16s.

Europe has a shitty French carrier and 2 British Harrier-carriers (somehow I think the British would side with the US)
the US has 12 fleet carriers and 12 LHAs (double as Harrier-carrier) plus dozens of Aegis cruisers and destroyers. Aegis, being designed to counter Soviet "Granit" (NATO SS-N-20 Shipwreck) anti-ship missiles, can shoot down anything anyone can throw at it biggrin:

A land invasion would be more difficult, but the US could easily blockade water shipping routes to Europe.[/quote:44e05]

Most of that is true besides the fact of Canada. I most certaintly believe that the Canadian's would side with Europe. And we're not going to take Russia or British and turn them around into US Allies, mainly because Office Depot said USA vs Europe. So that would most certainly mean that the United States did something so horrible, that everyone was against them. Since I qualify Canada as being more aligned with Europe, they'd definately fit right in and start a northern offensive against the border, backed by British/German/Swedish troops transported from Iceland. Since it will take the United States almost six months to mobilize the Naval Blockade you're talking about, the European troops would definately have enough time to land in Canada and be ready for battle by the time the blockade hits the Atlantic. While the Northern Offensive kicks off, a European Naval fleet, in preparation while the US Fleet was being put together, would attack the American fleet in the Atlantic. This of course provoking the Americans to send more Ships towards the Atlantic, which in turn leaving the Pacific Ocean clear for the Russians.

( This is fun, hah. This is all in good fun, I don't hate you or America or anything..lol. oOo: )

We would? Cool. cool:

[quote=Innoxx]Yes, but the question was the United States vs. Europe, where the hell is Russia?

Besides, if the USA invaded Europe, you'd be going up against the whole world. Far more countries have ties with Europe and than America. China would counter attack from the west and you'd be fighting on two fronts. UK, France, Spain and Italy would invade the eastern seaboard. Canada would invade from the north backed by the Russians and Chinese and This mock war would be over.[/quote:156f6]

but that's just the thing, you can't just lump Europe in all together.
they're a mess of countries all with their different views. In my analysis I assumed "Old Europe" (France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Austria, Spain, Balkan states, etc. etc.)
with Russia in the mix there would be problems, since the original question said Europe we assume China stays the hell out of this conflict.

[quote=Ferich]Most of that is true besides the fact of Canada. I most certaintly believe that the Canadian's would side with Europe. And we're not going to take Russia or British and turn them around into US Allies, mainly because Office Depot said USA vs Europe. So that would most certainly mean that the United States did something so horrible, that everyone was against them. Since I qualify Canada as being more aligned with Europe, they'd definately fit right in and start a northern offensive against the border, backed by British/German/Swedish troops transported from Iceland. Since it will take the United States almost six months to mobilize the Naval Blockade you're talking about, the European troops would definately have enough time to land in Canada and be ready for battle by the time the blockade hits the Atlantic. While the Northern Offensive kicks off, a European Naval fleet, in preparation while the US Fleet was being put together, would attack the American fleet in the Atlantic. This of course provoking the Americans to send more Ships towards the Atlantic, which in turn leaving the Pacific Ocean clear for the Russians.

( This is fun, hah. This is all in good fun, I don't hate you or America or anything..lol. oOo: )[/quote:b7d32]

Canada would be in civil war between the conservative western Canadians and the eastern liberal "froggies". Canada's west sides more with the US (From what I understand from talking with some of these folks they hate the mainly leftist governmet, especially their gun laws)

I see myself punching Office Depot for not giving us background information on how it happened.

Hmm..

The United States would be fighting a defensive war almost entirely, as it has no staging ground for an invasion of Europe.

If Canada did happen to side with Europe (which it would most likely do), European forces would have perfect staging grounds for an invasion. The border is so large that any type of patrol or line couldn't possibly hold.

European Union will own America i mean americas strong but i mean cmon!

US is one country.

Europe is many armies.

[quote=Ferich]
You also underestimate the SAS. A grouping of countries best fighting men vs the Navy SEALS. Stop being so ignorant and thinking the US Military is invincible, they're not.

And Office Depot, all of those aircraft wouldn't have time to be tank killing while they're scrambling dog fights in the sky.[/quote:4a3d0]
Did i say they were invincible fuck no i didnt think so, but i do believe they are as good as the SAS, SAS is probably better but not by much. Dont forget Delta also.

Add Delta Force,Rangers, and the Green Berets onto there and you have a pretty good fight, but you need to understand, those Spec Ops units are the most Elite of each country, not just the back up spec ops units. For Example: German has SEK ( SEALS in USA,sort of ) they also have KSK ( Rangers ) and GSG9 ( Delta Force. ) and once we add these all up from every country, it's going to be 29 spec ops units vs 4 American ones....And so on. 35 Armored Divisions vs 5 ( or how many ) American Armored Divisions. Know what I mean? Everything the USA has, Europe has triple.

Well yeah no shit its tons of countries vs. one country whos military isnt that big, we rely on technology and special units now. This is a bullshit thread you cant even compare this anyway. How can one country start a war with a fucking continent?

[quote:1fffd]Our navy seals would destroy them. thats my opinion[/quote:1fffd]

Remind me again of how many "successful" rescue missions the SEALS have had, the recent bs one with that girl from the US Army dosen't count because it was a fake. Oh yeah thats right, none!!!

The SAS/SBS are far superior to the SEALS in their training and skill.


BTW I think this threat is preposterous but what the hell.

I'm not sure whether the UK would side with the USA or not, but since technically the UK is part of the European continent I guess it's part of Europe for this discussion.
The USA may have many carriers but judging by the results from the British Sea Harriers vs F15, F16, and F14's it does not seem to make much difference in aircraft capability, your aircraft are not as '1337' as they look.
Lets not forget that Germany has some Mig 29's with very capable pilots.
The fact that half the world might be dragged into the conflict is also quite interesting. I'm not sure if the Commonwealth would still support Britain in a major war but if they did the USA would be up against Australia, NZ and Canada aswell.
Lets also not forget that Europe is not just Western Europe. The Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Budapest, Turkey and many other countries in the East would also be part of this war, not just France, Italy, Germany and Spain.
The Italian navy has aircraft carriers as does the French and Royal Navy, the Scandinavians have very capable submarines. The Dutch have some of the best anti aircraft destroyers in the world. The Royal Navy submarines were never detected by the Russians throughout the Cold War.
The German Leopard tanks and Brit Challanger tanks are as or more capable than the M1A2. European countries also have ample air defence systems the 'BAe Scimitar system' and other SAMS.

European countries have some very capable special forces. The Dutch Marines, the Italian Marines, the French Foreign Legion, German GSG9, French GIGN French Paras. The German 1st Fallschirmjager Division, 1st Gevurgsjager Division, the Norwiegen Jagers, the Danish Fromankorpset, the Belgian Le Regiment Para-Commando. The French Force d'Action Rapide, the Italian Comsubin, the San Marco Marines Battalion, the Austrian Cobra Force, to mention but a few...

The SAS/SBS have had more successful missions than any other special forces. In contrast the US special forces history is largely one of failure, Operation Eagle Claw, the invasion of Grenada, Delta force in Somalia etc. The SAS were actually responsible for the invention and training of Delta Force.
The British Royal Marines alone have the longest and most arduous training compared to any other conventional forces in the world, the test just to be accepted is called the 'USMC' test, the test required to join the US Marines. The USA may have the equiptment to kick some serious ass but IMHO after this so called war is over there won't be anyone around to celebrate the victory.

[quote="Capt. John Miller":c0e31]Well yeah no shit its tons of countries vs. one country whos military isnt that big, we rely on technology and special units now. This is a bullshit thread you cant even compare this anyway. How can one country start a war with a fucking continent?[/quote:c0e31]

I know, I totally agree.

I think those pesky invisible B-2 Spirits armed with JDAMs would wreak havoc with any invasion or transport fleet.

Also Europe would need to rely exclusively on Mig-31s with R-33s (NATO AA-9 "Amos") to defeat US F-14s with AIM-54 Phoenix missiles.

The USA would win angel:

Whats the quote that Yamoto made during WWII about the Japanese invading the US??

Something about there would be a gun pointed at them from every bush.

Damn right you smelly bitches in Europe, you'd have to deal with us hillbilly rednecks who nearly have 10-15 guns in EACH household, lol.

[quote="Cpt. Zapotoski":cb333]The USA would win angel:

Whats the quote that Yamoto made during WWII about the Japanese invading the US??

Something about there would be a gun pointed at them from every bush.

Damn right you smelly bitches in Europe, you'd have to deal with us hillbilly rednecks who nearly have 10-15 guns in EACH household, lol.[/quote:cb333]
So we would win the war because of west virginia. cool: