Regarding the scenes in SPR set on Omaha beach, I remember a lot of threads in the Close Combat forums about how inaccurate the beach scene was and how it turned out most of the grippers were the ones who were wrong. C Company of the 2nd Rangers were attached to support the far right of the 29th Division. On this first map you can clearly see Dog 1 Exit, at the bottom, between WN71 and WN72. Yes the bluffs were much higher than in the movie, and yes the beach was deeper as they came in at low tide to expose as many anti-landingcraft obstacles as possible. But if you imagine the spot where Tom Hanks landed was to the right of the exit than they could very easily have been assaulting that one strong point area that was farther down than those on the higher bluffs to the west (note the arrow pointing North being DOWN)

P.S. Omaha Beach was SEVEN MILES long, so what you saw in the movie was only the very far right of the attack sectors now remembered as Omaha Beach.

http://dba.gamepoint.net/images/beachmap.jpg



[This message has been edited by LordLovat (edited January 16, 2002).]

Here is a map showing the initial objectives of the different units. Company C of the 2nd Rangers is represented by the little blue square just off the beach in the water right between the Dog Green and Dog White sectors. The units depicted inland are either 29th Div. or 1st Div. The units in the water at the top left are the 5th Rangers and 2nd Rangers at Point Du Hoc. The unit a the top directly over looking the beach sectors is the 175th Regiment Corps Reserve of the 1st Division.

http://dba.gamepoint.net/images/objectives.jpg

This map shows the initial assault and where they were stalled by major resistance after they got off the beachhead. Again, notice that the area where Tom Hanks and Co. landed. By noon they still had not gotten off the beach. So, the movie condensed time a lot for the D-Day sequence, but they still did a great job getting the idea across that those guys landed in the worst meat grinder on Omaha, itself a slaughter house across the board.

http://dba.gamepoint.net/images/assult.jpg




[This message has been edited by LordLovat (edited January 16, 2002).]

This map shows the actual positions at the end of the day. Compare to the initial objective map above.

http://dba.gamepoint.net/images/endofday.jpg

Im too stupid to understand the maps.

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S-Less.

You may also notice on these maps that in real life Dog 1 was not opened in the 20 minutes it took in the movie. Nor was it opened by the first assult wave. In fact, if they showed what really happened people would not have believed it, as it was not as awful as they show in the movie - it was WORSE. It was a LOT worse, and went on for hours.

Dog 1 Exit did not get open for 5 hours +. The first and second waves were slaughtered in numbers that dwarf what they showed in the movie. But if they did include all that it would have taken half the movie right there. The Rangers were still clawing their way off the bluffs long after the Easy exits and Dog 3 were open and "in business."

Pretty awful and sad day for the guys who landed in the worst spots.

[This message has been edited by LordLovat (edited January 16, 2002).]

This is interesting (top!)

Indeed. Unlike my history class, this is waking me up rather than putting me to sleep.

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"Look, I wash for supper!"

These maps come from the Britanica.com site about Normandy 1944. Probably the best D-Day site on the web, with recordings of the actual vets talking about their experiences on D-Day and great maps, etc.. But you need Shockwave to be able to use the interactive maps.
http://normandy.eb.com/

LordLovat, what can I say but very, very informative. Thanks for the history lesson....

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Oh, I'm sorry. Was that your head I just put a hole in?

Seriously, I aced History when I was a junior in HS. But not because of the teaching. Boards like this one and the DoD forums provide such a wealth of information and the people were kind enough to tell me where they get their info from (most of the time.) So when my teacher said I was wrong, I could point her to the place that shows I was right.

Stupid school history books suck.

i dont understand how you people can care so much for pointless details, why cant you just sit down and enjoy a movie? is that really so hard?

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WWRD?
What Would Rambo Do?

Cross section of Omaha.400 yards to the shingle.Omg.

http://dba.gamepoint.net/images/onormay228a4.JPG

They are not pointless details, first off. I did not post the maps because of movie, but because of the game and the fact that I thought it was a great find to stumble on such detailed maps back when I first did two years ago.

And I did not post them in an effort to talk about how the movie was "wrong". Quite the opposite.

I was pointing out that the movie did a good job at portraying the feeling of what happened on that beach without spending the entire movie doing so; unlike what was said about it at the time it came out by people who did not know what they were talking about and who really felt cheated that Spielberg did not spend an extra 10 million dollars to find and import a real Tiger tank to Ireland for 30 minutes of film.

So clearly you missunderstood why I posted this.

It is not pointless. I posted it because it is FACINATING!!

Like many people, I have been very interested in the events surrounding the Invasion of France since I was a small boy. Omaha Beach and what the Airborn did were areas of particular awe. Clearly Spielberg felt the same way since he found a way to get the Rangers and Omaha Beach AND the 101st Airborn in the same movie and do a great job all along the way.

I even went so far as to get a copy of the offical Department of Defense report on Omaha Beach that was prepared and given to the surviving D-Day vets in 1994. And it is AMAZING.

Of course one can just enjoy the movie. But I am sorry if you care so little for the actual history behind it. Your loss.

[This message has been edited by LordLovat (edited January 16, 2002).]

Well, LordLovat, I found it intersting and informative. If you have more, please continue...also any good books out on the D-Day invasion and the beach assaults esp?


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~Mange~

http://members.home.net/aqstudios/previews/sig.jpg

You'd have thought that if all the others had gotten through and one part of the landing force was still on the beach they'd have flanked the germans? Wonder why they didn't? Seems stupid considering the losses incurred.

Good posts, the D-Day invasions I find super interesting.

I'm reading a book called 'Decision in Normandy' about the entire Normandy campaign right now, and when it got to the actual D-Day invasions (my favourite part so far), I was pretty surprised, since SPR was really my only reference when I started. Like someone said before, it took 6 hours to get a few yards up the beach. Omaha was the worst for the Americans because by a coincidence an entire German division was running training exercises on that particular beach, which the Allies were not aware of. Beaches like Gold and Sword were realtively lightly defended and were FAR less bloody than Omaha or Juno (be damned if I can remember the last one, damn...). Anyway, it was D+1 when they finally started to capture all of Omaha, that's a day of fighting. Must've been hell...

The other beach was called UTAH. BTW, what exactly are the Shingles? Is it the barbed wire or what? Thanks in advance.

I think the shingles are the explosives that are used to make trenches so that troops can advance forward.

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"Does it really smell like cookies. Ohhhhh, she farted and it went down my throat." Guy from Family Guy
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There may be what tortures you.
There may be what reduces you to silence.
There may be what fails to satisfy you.
There may be what irritates you.
There may be what grieves you.
But man has to train himself by enduring these things.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nwebb:
The other beach was called UTAH. BTW, what exactly are the Shingles? Is it the barbed wire or what? Thanks in advance.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe the shingle is the area on a beach where the most sand is piled up from the waves. Like in Saving Private Ryan where they set off the bangalore torpedoes, they were up along the shingle. That is why it was a lot safer to be up along the shingle during the D-Day invasions because you were safe from the machine gun fire.


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"Nuts!"
General McAuliffe

Yes, the shingle is all the slate and stone that is piled up along the high tide line. From eons of stormy Atlantic waves. You don’t see that stuff on swimming beaches in Florida of course. Only ones that have a lot of limestone cliffs and that kind of thing. But even on nice beaches there is that line of shell and stones right where the water meets the beach that stays dry.

Anyway, D-Day was a big confusion. Because of the post-storm tides most units landed off course and had no idea where they were exactly. They did not have satellites and cell phones and all that. One part of the beach had no idea what other parts were doing. Communication with the ships off shore was spotty at best.

Some Americans landed at Omaha and had light or no casualties because certain cliffs stuck out and blocked the view of the closest enemy troops, or because the smoke from destroyed ships or vehicles screened their advance. Others 200 yards away were butchered.

Some Americans faced Polish and French conscripts who only stayed in the trenches because a German sergeant was there with a machine pistol at their backs. Other Americans faced crack units of an elite force that had just spent a year fighting in Russia and was in fact on training exercises that morning in full field gear. (Similarly some Airborne units – like the Band of Brothers guys -landed in and around the veteran German paratroops that were also in Normandy on filed maneuvers.)

The units that were pinned down thought the whole Invasion had failed, the units that got off the bluffs by noon thought it was the same way for everyone else.

Despite the fact the units at the far right (where Tom Hanks and Co. landed) had some of the worst of it they also were among the few units that actually reached and secured their objectives, which happened to be a particularly strategic point looking over the beach head. Most other units at Omaha did not reach their inland objectives until days later.

Mange,

My favorite book about D-Day is still The Longest Day. It was virtually over looked during the 1994 anniversary stuff, probably because it was written in the 50s. In fact it took him ten years to write and was the first book of its kind - where the author went all over the world to interview the people who were there and took part from Rommel's adjudents to the yanks and tommys who hit the beaches, etc.