The Michael Moore Thread
 

This guy seems to spark a lot of debate, so I thought maybe it could be compacted into one thread about all his movies. I just read this guy's thoughts on Michael Moore, thought they were pretty good. I personally hate Michael Moore with an intense passion.

[quote:d63de]I just got finished watching Bowling for Columbine. I rented it because I wanted to get some kind of introduction to Michael Moore’s “documentary” (and I use that word loosely) works before seeing Fahrenheit 9/11, and I figured what better way than to rent a copy of this Oscar winning piece.

After having taken in the entire movie, two things strike me immediately:

1) Don’t ever piss off or otherwise disagree with Moore – because he’ll spend the better part of a year making a film wherein you’ll wind up seeming to be the most profound idiot known to man, and quite possibly the underlying cause for all the fear, death, depravity, and destruction in the world.

The first act of the movie is basically Moore introducing the viewer to the variety of people that have been produced as a result of the area of Michigan from which he himself hails. Coincidentally, one of the kids who took part in the attack on Columbine (I forget which one) was from this area, as were the Nichols brothers who were linked to the Oklahoma City bombing. What’s most noticeable about this portion of the film is that Moore vividly paints these individuals he encounters – whether they be members of the Michigan Militia, the Nichols brother who was cleared of any wrong-doing, or the apparent average Joe having a few cold ones while shooting pool – as being of the dim witted variety who probably don’t know any better than to associate themselves with what they have. This may be truth in advertising; it may be talent in editing. Either way, Moore’s established his basis for comparison, and made for a bit of comedy relief in the process.

On the flip side of this, you have the latter act of the film wherein the director hones in on celebrities who have apparently aligned themselves with organizations that are in some way responsible for the Columbine massacre. Say what you will about Moore and his brash nature of pursuing the argument; there’s something oddly entertaining about watching celebrities squirm when confronted by a portly, unshaven, pasty-white man with a film crew. God, I would have hated to have been Dick Clark or Charlton Heston during those moments that are captured for the segments of this film when Moore sets his sights on them. Granted, they both seemed to be rather unprepared to face Moore, and he had an obvious edge in the blunt nature of the situation. Nevertheless, Heston in particular should’ve seen this coming from as far away as his best hunting scope would allow. (I give Dick the benefit of the doubt since he was practically ambushed by Moore outside of his production offices.) I don’t think the man could have made himself look any worse – unless, of course, he had pulled out a nickel-plated .45, pistol whipped Moore, then broke his hip after falling down the stairs in an attempt to run away.

I like Heston, but that would be hilariously bad; Alzheimer’s or no.

2) It’s very interesting to watch almost two and a half hours of theories and commentary on the status of our nation – most of which deals with the preconceptions (or perhaps misconceptions) of society that have been generated by our national history, news media, corporate America, the National Rifle Association, and other factors – and to expect some sort of grand solution to be presented in the end, only to be left with a pile of questions and a whole lot of pointing fingers.

A bulk of the final acts are centered around apparent false notions in regard to why there are so many deaths in America (as compared to other nations – namely Canada) as a result of violence involving guns, as well as a detailed debunking of popular explanations. Moore does well in this effort as he brings to the surface quite a few bits of factual information that would leave one to believe our nation is a culture finding comfort in the warmth of a freshly fired gun due to a feeling of peril generated by the media, whereas other countries are still as saturated with weapons as we but have the decency not to go about glamorizing the worst aspects of human nature every day via the images piped in through our television sets. (The spot where Moore confronts a producer for the show COPS was quite rousing.) He attempts to examine the widespread usage and ownership (legal or illegal) of firearms from a racial point of view, as well, with a geography lesson ultimately working hand in hand with cultural studies.

I was surprised to discover that I actually agree with Moore on a number of points (what with my views generally being that of a conservative and his being that of an “aging, hippie, liberal douche” – I’ve been dying to use that line ever since I first heard it on SOUTH PARK), the most predominant of which being his stance on how the news media of this country creates an aura of fear that permeates the very essence of our being. I’ve said it on many occasions that the reason why I refuse to watch the evening news is because of the fact that I feel the need to request a prescription for Prozac afterwards, what with the constant barrage of horrible things that these people have no difficulty getting pictures of and no issues with throwing before our very eyes. The idea that Moore and Marilyn Manson throw around regarding this fear being the driving force behind consumption (of the economic variety) is cleverly accurate, and one that I hadn’t considered previously.

And this is the genius of the piece – it may be unsuccessful in swaying people of one persuasion over to the other side of the fence, but it is incredibly successful at stimulating discussion about the topics at hand. I haven’t actually spoken to anyone about it yet, but just considering the piece as I sit here writing this is making me dedicate some serious thought to what I’ve seen and heard. Unfortunately, since this film is most definitely that of the op-ed variety (I never could quite get over how Moore several times makes reference to Bowling for Columbine as a, “documentary”), the discussion that ensues may or may not be constructive seeing as how I’d imagine such a debate would quickly dissolve into a heated argument yielding little to no beneficial results.

It’s kind of odd that I made use of the phrase, “no beneficial results”, in that last paragraph, considering this is exactly what viewers are left with. No, I didn’t honestly expect Moore to bestow upon us some kind of world-altering solution to the issues he presents – although the man did manage to get K-Mart to stop selling ammunition (albeit by parading two injured survivors of the Columbine massacre through the company’s corporate headquarters), which was an impressive feat to say the least. He’s able to superbly craft a linear path from cause to effect, and back again if need be, but I don’t believe he nor does anyone else alive today have the answers for the questions he’s posed.

That being said, I’m left to wonder: Why bother asking the questions when it’s obvious that there’s not much likelihood of determining any answers? Truth be told, while Moore reveals a wealth of knowledge pertaining to his particular point of view on these matters, he doesn’t do much in the way of stating anything that hasn’t been said before. What he does is lay blame on the usual suspects – those being corporations, the government (and not only Republicans as he takes several stabs at Clinton for the bombings in Kosovo), the National Rifle Association (an organization of which he’s apparently a member), and the media. The arguments made against these entities are valid to an extent, but I don’t know that any of them would have received quite the lashing they’ve gotten had Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold been brought to justice as opposed to taking their own lives. It’s this lack of closure that I think has given him the ability to make the film and to have it be heralded as an Oscar-worthy item.

Would I recommend this film? Maybe, if you haven’t seen it by now and are by chance looking for something to watch that’s more meaningful than a majority of what’s on TV right now? I’d rent it, however, as I don’t see the grand nature of owning a copy. I figure once I’ve seen Fahrenheit 9/11 I’ll follow up on this with my thoughts of that one. [/quote:d63de]

everythings a debate in america

How many people have been killed by moore's liberal agenda?

How many have been killed by the military action in iraq?

Dont get your panties in a knot.

wtf

I'm still waiting to see Fahrenheit 9/11 then i'll contribute to the thread

heard his new movie sucked irish c0k

...noctis, are you canadian?

im not reading all that, fuck that

wallbash:

plzdie:

[img]http://www.alliedassault.com/phpBB2/images/avatars/80476182740e232b07c13a.gif[/img]

I think all americans should read machettes sig.

biggrin:

[quote="newt.":683bb]I think all americans should read machettes sig.[/quote:683bb]

answer my question

i think all americans should think about a living wage oOo:

i hear someone is making a movie that bashes Moore, i cant belive he has made that big of an impact in the states.

i still cant wait to see F 9/11

I GOTTA SEE FERNHEIT 9/11. so until then i can't really fully comment in the thread.

Well judging by your vast knowledge of the english language and american politics, surely you have an intelligent bit to add to this arguement... rolleyes:

ok i read it over im going ot type something up. I read it threw and its just about bowling for columbin e. gimme a sec there .

Old Reliable is the man and knows his shit about his own country.

i completely agree with everything michael moore says in fahrenheit adn bowling for columbine, funny how fucked the american government is, adn thank god we have someone to tell is the truth so we arnt being played with and manupulated but......how do we know everything mike says is true aswell.......ah well too hard ot argue with the government too many crooked people and conspiracys.

1nd33d

time for an overthrow? oOo:

I wanna see what happens when fidel dies.

ok. The first thing I'de liek to point out on this article is it is not to discriminate towards Moore, in fact i wouldn't consider it to be bashing that hard. So im kind of surprised Noc would post this up. The article neither really bashes moore in any horrible ways nor does it really glorify him. It just asks the big question, why does Moore not give a answer to all the problems and facts he presents his viewers... why does he not do this ? To put it bluntly the answer is simple, he doesn't know the answer yet, he presents a way of solving the problem, a basis for the final solution to this problem by over sampling to our eyes the facts, Ill tell you this I didn't think of the all the issues befroe I saw this movie. We can start to solve these problems he hope now that we know more. Moore isn't going to solve your problems people, you have to, simply him showing you your problem and ways to start solving it is all he does becasue to put it simple, who would do what a big guy says like moore ?


and some more argueble basis to the refrences he makes in the document.


- 80 % of the time Moore did his filming alone, with no Crew

- Their is no way in hell Dick Clark would give any time to Moore for an interview

All in all a fantastic analysis. i appluad the writer.

i dont like muchea; morre

Heres comes that

"one persons truth, is anothers lie." speech. oOo:

hall i spell check for your liking sir ?

[quote="newt.":e7e11]time for an overthrow? oOo:

I wanna see what happens when fidel dies.[/quote:e7e11]

his brother takes over

[quote="newt.":097b2]Heres comes that

"one persons truth, is anothers lie." speech. oOo:[/quote:097b2]

............not really. hake:

[quote="Short Hand":9960d]hall i spell check for your liking sir ?[/quote:9960d]
0 sense

sense of million ?

[quote="Short Hand":2ff9d][quote="newt.":2ff9d]Heres comes that

"one persons truth, is anothers lie." speech. oOo:[/quote:2ff9d]

............not really. hake:[/quote:2ff9d]

lies oOo:

[quote="Infernal_":4d302]i completely agree with everything michael moore says in fahrenheit adn bowling for columbine, funny how fucked the american government is, adn thank god we have someone to tell is the truth so we arnt being played with and manupulated but......how do we know everything mike says is true aswell.......ah well too hard ot argue with the government too many crooked people and conspiracys.[/quote:4d302]

How does it feel being a sheep lead to the slaughter? If you believe everything in Bowling For Columbine and F9/11 we need to get you out of this country - NOW.

Few points:

Moore brings up the "Willie Horton" ad used by the Bush campaign in 88. The text reads "And Then He Kills Again" (Willie Horton was a released black convict). This is all fine and well - except the ad DOESNT say that. It says "And Then He Rapes A Woman". What is Moores explanation for this? "It's a typo." Thats a pretty big and GLARING typo.

Moore brings up Americas obsession with guns, and goes to Michigan, home of some fine militias. He opens a bank account that promises a "free gun". His last line in what seems like a 15 minute process is "Do you think we should be giving out guns like this". This is to the woman who takes him through the process. Had the film kept going you would have heard her response, which debunked the entire segment. They DONT just give out guns. Moore went through finger printing, a background check, and was there for over an hour. Not a brief amount of time as he would like you to believe. The woman was obviously furious at being portrayed as a backwards hick who just passed out guns. And the gun Moore triumphantly waves in the air? Its a replica. The real guns arent kept on the premises. Oh well. So much for journalistic integrity.

As for 9/11

Gore was never President. Sorry Moore but the general public and national media does NOT call the Presidential Election. The Senate does. And I am sorry that no member of Congress (which is made up of more than white people, although Moores exploitation of the "negros" would suggest that's not the case, that the all-white Senate didnt care about the lil ol blackies) appended their objection to the Election results but thats the way it goes. Numerous "recounts" were done, and using various methods, Gore or Bush would have won. Fucking deal with it.

The Bin Ladin flight. Clarke approved it. He's told three different stories, and his final version comes after he has removed himself from his post within the administration and is no longer under oath. He fully takes responsibility for flying the Bin Ladins out of the country, and the flight plan was reviewed by him, his department, and the FBI.

Moore interviews a few soldiers and thinks hes got a complete picture? Please. This forum alone proves that there are soldiers who are fighting with honor and loyalty. Im sorry that womans son died, but she does not honor his memory by using his death as a vindication of this administration.

There are more glaring exploitations of fact - including the Canadian kids in BFC who are supposed to be "experts" on American culture. . . rolleyes: So much so that they are able to skip skill and hang out at the local fast food joint. Ohhh Canada indeed.

moore needs to do a porono, preferably paris hilton style

well someone has gotta take the fall for the Bin Laden flights out of America.

[quote="Short Hand":f6928]well someone has gotta take the fall for the Bin Laden flights out of America.[/quote:f6928]

Youre a fucking idiot. What fucking fall? This is a family tailed by the FBI and CIA constantly. Not ONE whistleblower has stepped up to say "oh no they are involved in all this shit" - yet fucking lemmings are willing to let Moore spell it out for them. . ."the Bin Ladens are working for their son".

[quote="TGB!":e2361][quote="Short Hand":e2361]well someone has gotta take the fall for the Bin Laden flights out of America.[/quote:e2361]

Youre a fucking idiot. What fucking fall? This is a family tailed by the FBI and CIA constantly. Not ONE whistleblower has stepped up to say "oh no they are involved in all this shit" - yet fucking lemmings are willing to let Moore spell it out for them. . ."the Bin Ladens are working for their son".[/quote:e2361]

FBI, CIA, fucking jokes to the free world. If yiou hadn't notice their are a lot more lemmings under bush then Moore, Hell I would consider Moore followers on a higher level since they are thinking for themselves, if Mr Coleman here is any proof of conservatives here. Youre the fucking idiot for being so emoional and confrontational about these issues , simply destroy any arguement down to your barebone essential fact of either flaming the person to shit or some how finding a way to disregard them as some sort of bafoon or idiot, way I see it thats a dirty way to argue when the facts overwhelm you. bust out the cursing and bust out the your a fucking retard statements. Typical conservatism.

i was at the movies tonight and i was suprised at all of the people that were there to see moores movie, i couldnt believe they would pay 8 bucks to listen to a bunch of lies and slander for 90 minutes.

never seen his films and i would be interested to know why you hate him (noctis).

while flipping through one night before sleep I saw him in an interview on one of those cross talk type programs and was impressed by him. It seemed like to me that he truely enjoys making fun of shitty politicians/politics, not only in interviews, apparently, but also through film. And alot of the things he said i also think true.

Do i believe he is doing what he does to ONLY sell himself? No. And i salute him for using the media against itself.