<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sgt.sayian:
bah, any german who fought for the germany army in World War 2 is a nazi (even if they didn't wanna be). Some germans were forced to fight and didn't wanna be a nazi but they were fighting for the nazi's and are one the self.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Um, no.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TrenD*KilleR:
Very well said Wehr, you commented that EA made up the grenadier. Correct me if i'm wrong but the infantry units that supported the Panzer tank units were called Panzergrenadiers maybe this is what EA meant to be using.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you're right, I was watching a British documentary on the Normandy invasion on PBS last night and they showed infantry along side the Panzer tank units and they looked like the class in the game, right down to the camo.

And Deadmeat is correct, too. The documentary also mentioned that the counter-attack was delayed because no one wanted to wake Hitler.

One thing, though, and I'm no WWII buff or anything, but they showed numerous footage of the beach landings, from Utah to Sword, and quite a lot of Omaha. But one thing that struck me was how the level in the game looked very little like reality. For example, the beach wasn't as steep. The level in the game looks more like SPR than anything.

Can anyone attest to its realism? Did Omaha actually look like this? Or is it another example of Hollywood? We all know Spielberg has his fingers all over this game.

IIRC Panzergrenadiers were the mech infantry attached to the armour units. They would drive around in half tracks etc and disembark to give the armour cover.

One thing I do note from my discussions with WWII ppl (English) is that they held the German soldier in high respect. They were good, had the best equipment and were well trained. Certainly at the outbreak of war there wasn't anything quite like them.

As one guy said to me.....

"In 1940 we were fighting guys who had been training for years in camps in the forests. We were just skinny kids."

http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/wink.gif

Steel

You're so right. The British had great respect for the Germans and vice versa.

Yes I know panzergrenadiers were a real type of infantry. But the camo smock...well, I've never seen it myself.

I'm a 2nd SS Panzergrenadier Division "Das Reich" reenactor. All the camo smocks I've ever seen can probably be found at these websites:
http://www.atthefront.com http://www.1944militaria.com

On the other topic: Yeah the whole Reich was one big complex system. Obviously anybody in Germany could have believed in Nazi politics. And in the early days of the reich alot ot people did. But it's not fair to label the entire German population as Nazis. After all, there were 17 different assassination attempts to kill Hitler within the Wehrmacht itself http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif



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"Bleib von meinem loch fern junge!"
-Stay out of my (ass)hole boy!-

OT: Any of you guys want to see a picture of my real mp44? I'll have to dig up my camera...

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"Bleib von meinem loch fern junge!"
-Stay out of my (ass)hole boy!-

[This message has been edited by Wehr (edited February 01, 2002).]

Can anyone attest to its realism? Did Omaha actually look like this? Or is it another example of Hollywood? We all know Spielberg has his fingers all over this game.[/B][/QUOTE]

I believe in SPR they are trying to model the Point Du Hoc region which is in between Omaha and Utah beaches.From what I know pointDu Hoc was pretty steep.Point Du Hoc is where the Allies believed a battery of German artillery was located,but they turned out to be further in-land.

Canon Fodder.
Yes Omaha beach scenario is pretty accurate as far as the look and feel but ofcourse you can't be as accurate in a game as in real life.Some of the open streches on Omaha were close to 200-400yrds wide so plenty of oppertunity for the Germans to pick the US soldiers off.
But the look and feel is pretty accurate for a game.
I for 1 would not like 1 bit to have been a allied soldier storming the beach on June 6th,1944
Those men who did I hold the deepest respect for,For they achived something that probably will never be replicated again in history!
I myself probably would have started digging to china and try to come up behind the Germans but ofcourse we all know that wouldn't be possible.
Plus if Hitler would have released the Panzer divs sooner the allies probably would have been pushed back into the sea!
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sgt.sayian
Grow up bud and learn your history and don't spout BS when you have no clue as to what you say!!!!!

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[This message has been edited by Dasher (edited February 01, 2002).]

The panzer reserves where in Paris at that time and they would probaly get shoot by naval bombardments if they would attacked the invasion force at the beach. Thats what i heard on a documentary.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lone_Wolf:
The panzer reserves where in Paris at that time and they would probaly get shoot by naval bombardments if they would attacked the invasion force at the beach. Thats what i heard on a documentary.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No all the panzer reserves were in the Calai region, where the Germans had expected the Allied invasion would take place.

There were a few Mechanized divisions in the Normandy area though.

Guys one thing only 10% of the entire german population was nazi and killing one of them is just as good as sex!!! t´hem nazi fuckers destroyed lots of beautifull things here in holland KILL ALL NAZI PEOPLE

I'm not totally sure where the Panzer reserves were.

I read a quote awhile back, can't remember whom it was from. Somebody said the most effective defense of amphibious assults would be to have Stukas hug the coastline as much as possible. While "cheap" defenses could be arranged for the immediate defense of the coastline such as MG's. Tanks would be in charge of the counter attack. But what can you say? Hitler slept late http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/tongue.gif

One of the most annoying things about MOH (especially in the omaha map), is the liberal dispersion of snipers. They were rare throughout the war to say the least.

With so many snipers, normal rifles serve no purpose. The only way to possibly survive is to run around like crazy. When realistically, there were actually such thing as rifle squads.

Anyhoo, moh is a fun game, but I still would much rather have game which limits snipers to 1 per platoon (30-40 people)

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"Bleib von meinem loch fern junge!"
-Stay out of my (ass)hole boy!-

Now would that be from Artillery fire or the Gestapo?

Wehrmacht officers refused time and time again to commit war atrocities. And since they held so much power, there was nothing Hitler could do. Take Rommel for instance. He never killed a POW...ever.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by thakiller2k2:
Guys one thing only 10% of the entire german population was nazi and killing one of them is just as good as sex!!! t´hem nazi fuckers destroyed lots of beautifull things here in holland KILL ALL NAZI PEOPLE <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



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"Bleib von meinem loch fern junge!"
-Stay out of my (ass)hole boy!-

I don´t understand your question(i think)
Can you say it different

Also what about the Soviets? Didn't the Soviets invade Finland out of imperialism?

Didn't the Allies bomb Dresden into complete submission although it held no strategic asset? I believe more innocent civilians died in the Dresden bombings than both atomic bombs.

The Polish murdered 200+ Polish citizens with German decent at the town of Danzig towards the end of the invasion. This wasn't stubborn defense from the German invaders, this was pointless murder.

War has lots of atrocities from both sides. But don't dehumanize an entire race for the crimes of so few. The Nazi party commit the holocaust. Most German [read: generals] didn't even know about it until the end of the war. Not even Rommel at Feldmarschall status believed that the rumors of the holocaust were true.

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"Bleib von meinem loch fern junge!"
-Stay out of my (ass)hole boy!-

What I'm trying to say is that you are not noticing the difference between the soldiers at WAR, and the NAZIS in charge of atrocities.

What destroyed holland?

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"Bleib von meinem loch fern junge!"
-Stay out of my (ass)hole boy!-

One of the biggest misconceptions of Germany during the war, is that they all happily stood together united throughout the entire conflict. Each and every German knew what was to become, but they were all at the same level of understanding.

All of the war atrocities commit by Germany had something [if not everything] to do with direct orders from high ranking Nazi party officials. Every single one was kept secret to the best of their ability.

People as of today are still arguing whether or not the holocaust actually happened on such a large scale because so many documents and records were destroyed.

There are still classified documents about WW1 war crimes. Goes to show that the people who commit them sure don't want anybody to find out about it.

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"Bleib von meinem loch fern junge!"
-Stay out of my (ass)hole boy!-

[This message has been edited by Wehr (edited February 01, 2002).]

What is the best thing to do in your spare time i think shooting Nazi GuYs is a very plesant thing 2 do What´s your opinion

Yeah, I'm using the IMG tag, but its not showing up, it this one of those forums that you have to post a certain amount before being able to have a sig.

Well, technically speaking there is only 1 nazi modelled in the game. And that would be the "elite sentry" with the red swastika armband. The name in real life would be Allgemeine SS or Totenkopfverband SS. Moh is rather pathetically historically incorrect in many aspects.

The Wehrmacht (german armed forces) or Heer (normal german army) were not apart of the Nazi party. The "grenadier" modelled is just a class that EA made up. The camo smock used looks more like Italian camo than Heer camo (or Waffen SS camo). DAK (deutsches afrika korps) was under Wehrmacht control therefore were also exempt from Nazi party membership as well.

The Waffen SS were technically apart of the 3 branches of the SS. But while they were a branch, they were also a front line force. The unofficial purpose of the Waffen SS was to counter the balance of power in Germany, as the Wehrmacht; the SA (sturmabteilung); and SS (schutzstaffel) were always fighting for power and favor from Hitler.

Thus, the Waffen SS was formed as a "political army" to balance the power between the armed forces. They were considered to be elite, but mainly because they generally had much more strict leadership as the higher ranking commanders were direct nazi party officers.

The SS itself was a large organization of police and military branch offs. While funded and favored by the NAzi party, they still were not apart of the Nazi party.

So, the many different organizations in WW2 Germany were technically under the Nazi political party yes, but it did not necessarily mean that their members believed in NAzi politics. Many Germans loved their country and fought for it when asked, nazi or not.

The best example of this would be a normal everyday republic. The US army is made up of almost %100 right-wingers but it does not mean that all must follow the right-wing. also the US army doesn't simply disintegrate when a left-wing polititian gets elected into office.

Nazi Germany worked out alot like our democracies ironically enough.

Anyway, I just thought I'd clear that up http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"Bleib von meinem loch fern junge!"
-Stay out of my (ass)hole boy!-

[This message has been edited by Wehr (edited February 01, 2002).]

bah, any german who fought for the germany army in World War 2 is a nazi (even if they didn't wanna be). Some germans were forced to fight and didn't wanna be a nazi but they were fighting for the nazi's and are one the self.

not to get off topic

YES! I love killin em stupid german fuckers in mohaa http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif, makes me happy when im in a bad mood lol.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sgt.sayian:
bah, any german who fought for the germany army in World War 2 is a nazi (even if they didn't wanna be). Some germans were forced to fight and didn't wanna be a nazi but they were fighting for the nazi's and are one the self.

not to get off topic


YES! I love killin em stupid german fuckers in mohaa http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif, makes me happy when im in a bad mood lol.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your a ignorate idiot. Grow up or learn some history.

Very well said Wehr, you commented that EA made up the grenadier. Correct me if i'm wrong but the infantry units that supported the Panzer tank units were called Panzergrenadiers maybe this is what EA meant to be using.

Actually, the only thing that wasn't very democratic about the german army was that their troop command structure wasn't democratic.

If a Private, Lt., Etc. in the U.S. Army had to ignore an order or two from their C.O. (or translate it a different way) to get the job done without unnecessary losses, it was usually commended.

However, the D Day invasion could have been much harder if the german infrastructure allowed for spontaneous action. As it was, it was many. many hours before a counteroffensive took place because the command hierarchy was so rigid. One Field Marshall couldn't move his forces from a position until he got Hitler's ok. But Hitler was asleep and nobody wanted to wake him because they thought all the scattered airborne drops were just a diversion for a larger invasion to the north.

Just my 2 marks,

-Deadmeat

You have seen that in The longest day right? It's just a movie and they make up things. Can you give me a prove of what you are saying?

Do you need proof from me??? Read D-Day by Stephen Ambrose... He actually interviewed one of the German Commanders about it, and all his sources are specifically documented. He's considered to be one of the world's best and most accessible WWII historians.

Actually, I highly recommend any of Ambrose's WWII books. So what if he's had 2 plagarism charges against him in the last 2 months. He only copied a couple paragraphs http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Deadmeat (edited February 01, 2002).]

You schwine!

Hehehe.... Nice first post DER.Fuhrer.CN.

Very informative http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

More of a sig test than anything http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/tongue.gif
whats the code here for sig images?

Wehr, very nice post!

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21st Panzer Division - Afrika Korps Website
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hey blue, whats the sig code to add images

What destroyed holland are those hudge bombings but we destroyed over 350 plains in only 5 days so we did atleast something
I Know that the allied also had civilian casualties under there names but do you realy think they dit it on purpes i don´t think so the are the ones that liberatet us

talkin of nazis. "hehehuhehahahehe"

should i bring up

ROTTEN TROOPS
http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

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kainss/CO
1st SS G.D.
WWIIOL Blitz

Why are we stopping the discussion

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by thakiller2k2:
What destroyed holland are those hudge bombings but we destroyed over 350 plains in only 5 days so we did atleast something
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And the "extra"-winter Holland had to go through. The Netherlands didn't suffered to much in WW1, but they got it all in the second.

Well,war atrocities were committed by the 'Waffen-SS'.The 'Wehrmacht' divisions refused to do this shit because they saw themselves as soldiers and had a special idea of honour just like the allied troops.they respected each other.last tuesday i watched a documentation where ex-wehrmacht soldiers were interviewed.one man said,he was supposed to shoot a soviet POW.so he went into the forest and shot into the ground 2 times and released the soviet.
P.S. one thing about the holocaust: the german people mostly didn't know about the holocaust.what they knew is that their jewish neighbours were deportated but they didn't know what happened with them.same thing with the allied.their secret services reported that something very horrible was going on in eastern germany and poland but nobody believed them because no one could imagine that humans were able to kill millions of jews just because they were jews.
P.P.S. the 'Panzergrenadiere' are still part of german 'Bundeswehr'

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Only after disaster can we be resurrected.It's only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything