yes. both sides of the coin like i said .Do you wanna play? we can go back and forth lets just find a server and play . you assume the allies will use teamwork but axis wont? what is teampaly going to do about this constant nades down the stairs people peeking the stairs? how you going to defeat that? rushing from the bottom of the stairs? That is suicide. the front door so easy to camp i held it for like 15 kills its ridiculous they finnaly got me but mt teammates held it down for longer . Axis on beach in the 2 turrets then have more axis killing whoeva spawns on sand too funny .
then lets say you do blow up one gun. that just makesit easier for us to defend .

------------------
Enemy@TheG@te...im not too far away

And whats the point of two of us going to play? It still doesnt mean that there is good teamwork around. With good teamwork I mean weeks of practicing and using Roger Wilco etc. I dont consider yelling follow me to freshly spawned allied beach sniper. When these teamwork issues are in order then lets play, not now when its sure there is no teamwork.

------------------
My passport states that I am a man, but I am still not sure.
http://www.duhspot.com/users/smiley/...y/beerchug.gif

howmany games are you going to have 16 players on RW off ASE? never unless you have a clan match maybe. dont wanna play i understand still remains AXis win way more.

I was reffering to clan games anyway here. Its true that you wont find poeple who practice weeks and use roger Wilco same time, unless you are in a clan http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
My passport states that I am a man, but I am still not sure.
http://www.duhspot.com/users/smiley/...y/beerchug.gif

this map is horribly unbalanced. the axis have it easy.

if there were 1 maybe 2 more ways to get to the top it would be easier. As it stands though the axis can pretty much just spam the choke point in the stairs with nades and rockets.

also i think the allies should always spawn at the shingle once its been blown.

as it stands, if both teams have equally skilled players the axis will win everytime.

thx you madrebel. http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Enemy@TheG@te...im not too far away

[This message has been edited by m0neY_EQ (edited February 01, 2002).]

you are right, you will never get proper teamplay in MP unless you are in a clan. as a vet. of delta force series, everyone would either be a lone camper or a loneranger armed to the teeth to take on the enemy and grab the glory. The loneranger teams may work, but its hardly teamplay. there is no way saying "follow me" is going to get people saying, "ok, lets all follow him" everyone wants to be their own leader and wont play otherwise.
Thats where clans would be the only decent way to get proper teamplay as you have said.
Personally i would love to join a clan to have proper teamplay games, but 1. i dont have the time to spend hours practicing, 2. there are always the guys who take everything too seriously. 3. people would bitch at me for having a 56k modem http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif. so really the best i can do is just play the 'normal' games alongside the 12 year old cheaters, and the one or two guys with like 0 ping and 150+ kills each game. still, its better than nothing.

------------------
I can't help about the shape I'm in, I can't sing I ain't pretty and my legs are thin. But don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to.

I have an idea...

I agree that you die too fast on the respawns when you have no snipers, But i like the realism of it...

Here is My idea, When they release the first editor..

Someone remake Omaha, The only change needed is to make the beach just a little bit longer...

Then you would atleast have the chance to get a bit farther than 1 step for the spawn point!

anyone agree?

------------------
Bone's Heal, Pain Is Fleeting, Chick's Dig Scar's & Glory Is Forever

http://webpages.charter.net/qwiqshot/221001.jpg

making the beach longer would give more room for axis to snipe you....making it harder for you to get to your objective. And then when you die if they dont spawn you on the sand you will be at water way way far if they beach was longer then you would prolly get sniped in the water just to try all that again ...

I believe a flag that can be captured in the enemies based would be nice for this map only so allies could have a closer spawn. as it is now axis have the positional advantage the tactical advatage the respawn advantage( they spwn close to defend objective ,so you kill them they kill you right back ).

Or as mentioned before a death penalty so you cant just respawn instanly like you have to wait for a group of you to be dead to respwn with a group and not alone .

what i really dislike is say i make it to the inside chokepoint where you can go right or left to get near thetop kill someone start running they spawn right behind you then killyou back.. heck i play allies just to get my skills even better just cause its so difficult. but im so happy when the brigde map comes back to daddy i luv that map.
------------------
Enemy@TheG@te...im not too far away

[This message has been edited by m0neY_EQ (edited February 01, 2002).]

Just as Cpt. Bunny says, proper teamplay comes after you know your teamates and can communicate them fluidly, after that everything is possible. Unless you're playing against some form of god who can kill you whenever, however and wherever http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/wink.gif But I still stand behind my words, I dont think Omaha is unbalanced. And just for point, even if I lose, and when I do, do I give a damn? Not really, it is only just for having fun and Ohama proves that to me http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
My passport states that I am a man, but I am still not sure.
http://www.duhspot.com/users/smiley/...y/beerchug.gif

axis had even closer and more effective starting location on June 4 then that what is in the game(they were on the mgs far before the doors in the higgins boat open), although the allies greatly outnumbered the germans also.

er june 6 i believe

great, more people that will take any gameplay experience they get regardless of the obsurdity.

no morons, omaha is very unbalanced, oh logical thinkers, axis spawn close to objective, allies spawn far away, sometimes even on the shore when they already breached the shingle. the allies have to fight the axis team times 2 or 3, because before the bomb goes off you will fight the SAME nazis again, they have several chances, unlike the allies.

and yes, if you have a GREAT team that sticks together AND they are good aim, you can probably win, assuming axis are retards.
but how many times do you go on a pub and people are working together? not very often.
if the gameplay was balanced, you wouldn't need as MUCH teamplay to win with the allies.
but hmm i bet developers assumed that everyone was gonna work together.

regardless an instaneous axis spawn so close to the objective is ludicrous. if i die, then the guy i was shooting at is low health, then i come back 2 seconds later and blow his brains out and disarm his bomb. weee

I also think that the map is way too unbalanced in favor of the axis. Not only is the respawning bad but the timer on the bomb is ridiculously long.

It's way too hard to blow up two cannons with respawning axis while having to wait what seems like an eternity for the damn dynamite to explode. It's not so bad on The Hunt map because when you die you don't respawn, but the axis can respawn and just throw human wave attacks at whoever is left guarding the guns until the guns are cleared.

That's why there are different respawn timers in RCTW beachhead map, it simulates the historical advantage the allies had in numbers and position as the battle went on and allows them to get up the beach and into the bunker before the axis can respawn later in the game. Either change the respawning system or shorten the timer on the bombs, that's my opinion.

amen to that mrboo.

------------------
I can't help about the shape I'm in, I can't sing I ain't pretty and my legs are thin. But don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to.

I read that they're trying to simulate the next wave of higgens boats coming in.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mizat0:
axis had even closer and more effective starting location on June 4 then that what is in the game(they were on the mgs far before the doors in the higgins boat open), although the allies greatly outnumbered the germans also.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


see this is one of the problems with this game.

it attracts such a wide range of players. one being this type that thinks the real life ww2 has something to do with gameplay in MOHAA.

It doesnt and shouldnt.

This is all i have to say multi omaha beach is cheap. i have played both sides of the coin and the allies will never win if the axis are not terribly outnumbered or complete noobs. this is not a rant and im not mad about it i just think its funny when i (as allies teammember) get to the gun kill someone then they spawn right back and kill me within 5 sec maybe less all depends on where they spawn. maybe the objective is too close to axis spawn points.

I have seen allies win not because we played so good but becuase axis played bad and was outnumbered. Remeber history allies won that battle and took the beach no reason axis spwns should be so close to objective maybe a death penalty( you die you wait a couple second to come back ) would be nice for this map only.


------------------
Enemy@TheG@te...im not too far away

Disagreed. This also can be said vice versa. If Allies have better players the map can be totally owned by them. The ideal situation would be good TEAMPLAY, that way I'd say its 50/50. Allies really have to work as an team against good players, same of course goes to axis too.. whatever http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
My passport states that I am a man, but I am still not sure.
http://www.duhspot.com/users/smiley/...y/beerchug.gif

lke i said if you play teamwork and axis does too you lose. i challenge you to play with me . ill be on axis with my freinds you will never ever win if team are even for one simple fact. If i kill you ,you spawn at water or beach far from gun. IF i die im at the objective almost ever time plus its so easy to spawn camp the allies its not even funny we can pin you down so noone gets in so easy to camp the front door and camp the side entrance where the mg42 is even if you mange to get to gun you wont be there for long then you will have to try to run all the way back up

Another fact when you play in a omaha beach game i bet money the axis top four players will have alot of kills way more than allies top 4 why? becuase its easier to defend and camp esp when the spawns are out of whack. If they had a flag like wolfenstein ( not comparing the 2 games i loike MOH better) where you control a spawn point would be much better for this map.

All the rest of the maps i fell are great even for both, omaha is not.

As said before Axis will not lose IF they are not noobies and are not outrageously outnumbered.When i play axis i hve sooamny kills its ridculous vs good players and when the role is reversed( they are axis im allis ) the tables turn, just the way the map is its easier to kill from the Axis position
1 they HAve height advantage EVERYWHERE.
2They spawn very close to objective.
3 you spawn far from objective
noway you can say map is even for both sides

when you see me holla Enemy@TheG@te.

[This message has been edited by m0neY_EQ (edited February 01, 2002).]

I still dont think that is true. It is maybe not the easiest map for the allies but its not overly unbalanced either. The Axis are the defenders, it is natural that they have light advantage at the start. But when the game flows and centers more to the bombs and not the beach the odds even. It's not so easy to defend against allie squads that pour from every possible pathway, infact it is really hard. And so, you die and spawn near again, after that you're a lonewolf for awhile before you group again, and in that state I am afrraid you're very easy pray for a allies squad. I'd say Omaha is one of the most strategic map that is in the game, you just have to work in a organised team and pour in from every possible entrance.

------------------
My passport states that I am a man, but I am still not sure.
http://www.duhspot.com/users/smiley/...y/beerchug.gif

look there is only 2 ways to get inside not many only 5 ways to get to top level not many esp when 3 of them are right next to one gun pour in? You are assuming that you team of assualter will kill the defenders ....and in your post you said if allies ahve better players, but if you read my post i said axis wilnot lose IF ther are not outnumberebed and are not noobies.
Or what about this everyone just camp a door you will be hardpressed to get out even with teamwork i dont care who you have a team of axis defendeding well will not lose. most games that axis lose like i said they are out#ed or the noobies keep trying to snipe allies when they heard the timer go off. Im a video gamejunky i played MOHAA since demo 1st came out and got the game on the 22 of jan and even caled off 2 days work to play MOH all day ( i have vacation time) just tell me this then who wins more of the beach map axis or allies under the condition i said ( they are not out#ed 2 to 1 and are not noobies). i will be playing all this weekend too.

------------------
Enemy@TheG@te...im not too far away



[This message has been edited by m0neY_EQ (edited February 01, 2002).]

Omaha's the map I look for whenever I start up All Seeing Eye, and I've played it on both sides. I still like the map, I don't find it one sided at all, unlike a lot of people seem to believe.

As an Allied soldier, just make sure you go in with one or two other guys and have an itchy trigger finger. Only once or twice have I ever seen someone spawn right beside me when I was defending, and yes, that does suck. But for the majority when you're defending if you watch all the approaches to the cannon and use nades well, you can hold the position well. If all else fails, hide beside it, wait till you hear a guy come to defuse and pop up and shoot him.

Remember the main objective of destroying a cannon: When it goes kaboom, you've completed that part of the mission. Nothing else matters. All you have to do is stay alive until it goes up, nobody's gonna be dumb enough to defuse while an enemy's right there.

The point is there that defenders cant just all be in two or three places. If they are, then sooner or later some group will break thru that (assuming the teams are equals in numbers and skills). They just cant then anymore camp on the stairs or whatever, they have to break apart too to defened different positions and locations, meanwhile more and more allies can pour in cause the beach and stairs are not so well guarded anymore. thats where the different squads come to play, defenders have to move. As I have seen, the game starts the way that Axis controls the beach and entrances, but when game goes on their defence all the time gets more and more centered around the turrets, it is not snap of fingers to defend in Omaha beach, if and when you play against well organised teamplayers.

------------------
My passport states that I am a man, but I am still not sure.
http://www.duhspot.com/users/smiley/...y/beerchug.gif

That sound good in theory........Like I said who wins more? AXIS. played the map about 50 times i speak from expereince not theory. Have seen allies win but NEVER EVER with even teams (#of players and skill level) There are some good servers on right now lets test this you be allies on beach. wanna play?

------------------
Enemy@TheG@te...im not too far away

[This message has been edited by m0neY_EQ (edited February 01, 2002).]

Have you ever yet really seen a really good teamplay?

------------------
My passport states that I am a man, but I am still not sure.
http://www.duhspot.com/users/smiley/...y/beerchug.gif

to win this map u must use TEAMYWORKY

------------------
hey don't point that at me hey hey what u doin? AIGH TEAM KILLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mizat0:
axis had even closer and more effective starting location on June 4 then that what is in the game(they were on the mgs far before the doors in the higgins boat open), although the allies greatly outnumbered the germans also.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

posted by Madrebel:
see this is one of the problems with this game.

it attracts such a wide range of players. one being this type that thinks the real life ww2 has something to do with gameplay in MOHAA.

It doesnt and shouldnt.
---------------------------------------------

Madrebel, I wasn't arguing the fact that the game should most closely resemble world war II at all costs and should sacrifice the gameplay. I was just stating the fact that the Allies had greater numbers then the germans and that was the main reason they were successful in capturing the beaches of Normandy. In MOHAA the two sides basically always have equal numbers . The experience would be better if their was a lock on how many should join the Axis so the Allies always had more numbers and that as soon as the Allies stepped on the beach there would be at least two or three mg-42s in usage.

[This message has been edited by mizat0 (edited February 02, 2002).]

Anyone play Omaha with the sniper mod? It removes the Allied sniper rifle and replaces it with the M1 if you choose it. This way the Axis players can actually man the MG42's and the Allies will have to be a crack-shot in order to knock off the players manning the machine guns.

Without the mod nobody goes near the 42's without getting picked off, which I think is disappointing because they are an integreal part of preventing the Allies from advancing up the beach.

Just last nite I was playing on a public server that wasn't using the mod, and as long as there were Allied snipers present I picked them off no matter where they hid. After a while someone on Allied team was saying "F*** YOU let us get off the beach sniping whore". (Nobody could get to the bunkers even after respawning at the shingle)

My reply: "As long as Allies are sniping, I'll do what it takes to discourage it. If no Allies snipe, then I'll move to the MG 42's, but not until then."

I've played as both Allies and Axis on Omaha maps using the sniper mod, and I think it makes the gameplay so much better.

AMEN madrebel.

------------------
Enemy@TheG@te...im not too far away

Plain and simple, If the axis has more men than allies, usually axis will win..its like 85%-95%. Axis does have that strategic advantage being so so close to the guns when respawning.

Another thing is, not everyone who plays allies gets the fact that snipers on the beach do nothing. Maybe there should be maybe at the most 2 snipers to take out the biggun's and other snipers taking out the guys on the beach. But when everybody does it, HAHA! Its so pointless.

------------------
http://members.home.net/pn81/jackson.jpg

This isnt about snipers. Im not surprised to see people thinking this map is unbalanced. . even without snipers a m1 or a bAR in realismmod(CPR) can take out any mg42 gunner with ease. Big problem only one choke point. But i would like to change the tone of the thread ( since im the creator i think i can do that )to who can implement a better beach map who has the skills to mod it. Have they put outthe map making tools yet? please someone put more routes to the guns.and better spawn points

------------------
Enemy@TheG@te...im not too far away

All you have to do to make it balanced is shorten the timers. I assume this would be an extremely easy mod.

What is the point of such a long time delay? So you can get far away before it blows? You have to stay and guard it anyway.

It IS annoying to work all the way up to the top, only to be killed and start at the boat again. The point of the game is fun, so it would be good to change that. RTCW does it well with captured spawn points.

If the anti-sniper mod is fair, then there should also be an anti-mg42 mod.

I have seen a very lame argument that Omaha Beach is balanced: It is balanced because if the Allies are really good, have a lot of practice, and use good teamwork, then they can win. That's the definition of HARD!

Omaha Beach is the hardest map because it requires the most teamwork. And you don't see much of that. It requires teamwork because the Germans have advantages, e.g. close spawn points, mg-42s, etc. What advantages to the Allies have? Sand to throw in the Germans' eyes?

with all things/people being equal(in skill and teamwork):

axis will win on omaha. this is fact.

now there are gameplay changes that can be applied to not just omaha but every level that would help promote teamwork and balance out games a little more.

Team Fortress 2, RTCW and DOD all have them, its reinforcement respawn delay, so your squad repawns in waves not by themselves, THUS almost forcing teamplay(unless they are complete morons). now for omaha, axis would have a longer respawn delay then allies.
its as simple as that, and omaha would be balanced. of course the actual values would have to be decided based on a beta test by a bunch of players, if you really wanted it balanced.

little gameplay nudges like this will make gameplay way better, even with games that contain kiddie wannabe rambos. they will at least start by your side.

then theres the arsenal limitations(sniper,rocket) that would benefit gameplay more then people know. but that has been overposted heh.

I am gonna have to go with unbalanced as HELL on this one!!

I have played this map a lot and the Allies have only won once in my experience. I have been involved with games where we (Axis) were outnumbered two to one and still were able to win. And I shouldn't even count as a full player cuz I ain't that good at this game!

And yeah, the Axis rack up some kills on this one.

I have had plenty of time to play this map and I have to now agree where I did not before that it is way out of balance. The sniper situation is bad from both sides. I hate playing allied on this map because of respawning. Get to the top, die, have to start at the boat again, get sniped, start at the boat again, get spawn killed, start in the boat again. Sometimes you will get to spawn behind the wall. I do like the way Wolf did it with the flag points.

------------------
~Pvt MaNgE~
141st Infantry
Official BTFH

~MaNgE~'s MoH Mod Page

http://members.home.net/aqstudios/previews/sig.jpg

If there were no respawns on Omaha someone like me would just snipe all the Germans when they start up top.
Likewise if there are no good snipers on the allies the axis will simply snipe or MG-42 all the allies before the wire is breached.
So either way Omaha is better with respawns.

------------------
"At basic you learned out of a book, I'm going to teach you things they never put in the book, and probably never will" -Sands of Iwo Jima
Stryker's Medal Of Honor: Allied Assault headquarters
WWII wargaming forums

I agree with m0neY_EQ & all the reasons given in this thread 100%.

Here's a few screens to back it up. Yes I know this won't "prove" anything, but it is just how I've seen it happen *numerous* times I've played this map. And I've played it *alot* because obj match is all I ususally play.

Axis win outnumbered 01

Axis win outnumbered 02

Axis win outnumbered 03

To be fair, I do have some with the Allies winning but it is *usually* when Axis are outnumbered and or playing like crap. I'm not saying that it's impossible for Allies to win otherwise but it doesn't happen often.

Axis lose outnumbered 01

Axis lose outnumbered 02

You wanna talk about "team" effort. Ok. When you say Allies can win with a team effort, you are obviously not taking into account that in a public server game the Axis have just as much chance of playing like a team. Of course this will vary but it basically nullifies that argument.

Even in a clan match, again, the Axis are gonna be playing like a team too right?

And I totally agree with the comments made about the SR for the Allies vs. the Axis mg42. You take away the SR from the allies, they essentially have no way to defend against the ferocious fire from the mg42. Ok, I've see a couple of crack shot ppl that home in using binoculars & are able to then snipe with the rifle but that's not gonna happen very often. I couldn't hardly do that when I tried it.

I don't know what the exact answers are to make the map more balanced, but I do hope someone comes up with some good ideas & makes a mod. Until then, I'll still play the map when it comes up in rotation, but I don't really care for it. Starting way back in the boat most of the time especially is real frustrating.

------------------
http://home.austin.rr.com/ottf/c0aX_red_tiltr_s.gif
#~ridin'_the_wire~0

NO, your point does NOT nullify my argument about teamwork. So what if the Axis doesn't have much teamwork either? The Axis does not need to use as much teamwork because they have the advantage. Get it?

I am really getting sick of playing Allies on Omaha and respawning at the boat after running all the way to the top only to die before killing anyone. I think I will switch to Axis for that map. Eventually, we made need bots to play the Allied side.

should be able to capture some spawn points in the bunkers