To all the people who think snipers should not be allowed on Omaha, I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you.
Before I get started, I just want to say I don't mean to offend anyone. These are purely my opinions, and I feel a good balance of NON-CAMPING work very nicely on both sides. Anyway..to the point.
Though I do believe the map is much funner w/out the sniper rifle and more enjoyable rushing through the bunkers with your team, I don't think (just my opinion based on experiance) that snipers in omaha is that big of a problem. If there are a few allied snipers who really enjoy sitting on the beach and sniping, then I say leave them alone and let them sit there. Theres only a few areas they can see from the beach. There objective isn't to kill, it's to get up that beach. If they like to site and watch, let them. If they want to sit there, then as the germans you can decide to sit behind the MG42 at the entrance of the bunker and wait for the rest of the team to come in. Clog up those two doors until you piss the team off, and don't move until those snipers at least decide to come of the beach. Or, beat them at there own game. Buy a sniper rifle, crouch up to the lip of the hill, where they can barely see you, and snipe there ass. Or,(my personal favorite), if they're really persistant, run down onto that beach, straight at them zig-zagging crazzily, and shoot them right in the head while there busy with that bolt-action (generally I don't run onto the beach as the Germans, but hey if some Allied sniper want to camp, why not, right?)
And if theres a bunch of germans sniping in those bunkers, well, thats even easier to take care of. Again, pull out that zig-zagging action across the beach (just don't go in a pattern and the won't touch you, and for those of you who say zig-zaggin won't work, practice makes perfect!) run up that bunker, close the distance and they're helpless.
Of you can take the easy way out and dl the mod....but I think it's much funner kicken there ass!

Once again, just my oponion. Please don't reply if you just going to be pissed, there are some people out there that are like that (though I know not most of you). Of course, I'm open-minded to anyone elses opinion.

I know people will have something to say about this...I'll just bump before I call it quits for the night. Happy playing!

Wow I though people would have tons to say about this. I guess thiw will be my last bump.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RSM Harper:
Wow I though people would have tons to say about this. I guess thiw will be my last bump.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The debate about the snipers on Omaha, has been discussed heavily ever since the game got released. http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/wink.gif

I have some to say. Damn you straight to ...

Well actually no. I agree with you. But not just about Omaha, but about snipers in general.

I will admitt that on more then one occasion I have been very pissed off by snipers (and campers, and zookas, and that damn MG44).

But IMHO, people should look at it as a challenge and therefore change their tactics, and teamwork to overcome.


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You feel a thousand deaths by fearing just one. - Klingon Captian of the SuQ'jagh-class Battle ship

we know how to counter act snipers, that isn't the problem. we aren't proposing these changes because we are unable to get passed them.

as you said yourself, its a funner game, when the allies have to storm the beach with mg42's blazing.

people say 'let them snipe'. what better way to promote stupidity, then to let them have access to non-beneficial gameplay! Sure, for axis you can say, bah let them snipe, they won't get objective. but for allies, its not like that, if 2 people are sniping on the beach, thats 2 less people we have fighting the nazis as a team, its hard enough when its even, because of axis' instaneous spawn.

and trust me, if you've played against some GOOD axis players that take advantage of choke points, you NEED your team to work together. if there weren't any sniper rifles, the allies would have to all work together. perish the thought!

just do the math guys, it needs to be balanced. yes you can try and counter act, but when you find a good axis team that works together with everyone they have, and u got allies back at the beach gettin a tan, you will lose no matter how much of a rambo you are, cause this is a team game.

poseyj, you, like many others, are targetting snipers while failing to address the actual problem which lies at the root of the complaints. The problem? Players who have no grasp on the idea of teamwork. Sniper rifles on Omaha Beach are not the problem, and bitching about them detracts from what *should* be stressed to lurkers who read these boards ... teamwork counts, non-team players are undesired.

Instead of stressing your disdain for the snipers (and I address this to all, not just to you), why not stress your disdain for those who fail to act as a team? That will be much more productive in the long run.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shoegaze99:
poseyj, you, like many others, are targetting snipers while failing to address the actual problem which lies at the root of the complaints. The problem? Players who have no grasp on the idea of teamwork. Sniper rifles on Omaha Beach are not the problem, and bitching about them detracts from what *should* be stressed to lurkers who read these boards ... teamwork counts, non-team players are undesired.

Instead of stressing your disdain for the snipers (and I address this to all, not just to you), why not stress your disdain for those who fail to act as a team? That will be much more productive in the long run.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well before I say anything that since my now notorius *snipers* post I have changed my ways. I love snipers now http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif


But I don't love snipers on Omaha. And they ARE the problem! How is the map suppose to be fun if both teams just sit there and snipe? I play allied and I WANT to be cowering from MG42 fire. Not constantly getting a sniper's bullet in my head.
Same thing for Axis. I want to use the MG42 to lay down suppressive fire. I love it when an ally who escapes my notice tosses a well-placed grenade into the bunker, resulting in my death witch I find very enjoyable. http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

I don't like how the second I pop my head out of the bunker some sniper sitting in the Higgins boat puts a bullet in my brain. I am then forced to spend the rest of the map guarding the lower bunkers...Yawn.

But Sh3ll_Sh0ck, you're talking about poor team play. If, as you describe, both teams "just sit there and sniper," there is a problem with the *teams* and the *players* for allowing such nonsense to continue. The moment I see that going on, I point it out to my team and say we have to diversify our squad.

Is the sniper rifle the most appropriate weapon for Omaha? I don't think so. There are many boards where it is a much more appropriate weapon. With the wide-open space at the beach, however, many players are tempted to use it. There are nonetheless some legitimate uses for it for both sides, though I'd discourage any Omaha team from having more than one sniper. One is enough.

But again, and I stress this, a situation like you describe is a player/team problem, not a weapon problem. If the team is just sitting around sniping, it points to a problem with the members of the team, not the weapon. If everyone is choosing the same weapon without looking at one another and saying "hey, maybe this isn't what's best for the team," the problem does not lie in the rifles in their hand.

As I have pointed out elsewhere, a good set of server admin tools will go a long way towards creating the kind of atmosphere many of the players here (jncluding myself) desire. You can talk to public server players until they are blue in the face, but most are weaned on Quake-like games. *Force* them to conform to teamplay on the server side and you'll see things change.

What about limmiting the snipers to two to a team? Like what many DoD server admins do.
That way there are still the skillfull snipers helping to give the allies cover fire as they advance up the beach.
But not so many that it ruins the experience. http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

Shell, agreed, agreed, agreed. That's the type of ability I'd love to see admins have. No team ever needs more than two snipers - on *any* board.

Shell and Shoe both have some good points. Especially ShoeGaze about it being the peoples' mentality not the weapon at fault.

Personally, I have fun no matter what anyone else is using. Although I think it can be very dang annoying never to get off the beach due to German snipers. I will switch weapons to compensate. For example, if I keep getting sniped on the beach, I will switch to sniper and take the German sniper out. That can be satisfying in itself.

What bothers me more than snipers, or anything else about the game, is the annoying players who have to turn it into a fight with non-stop complaining and name-calling. That's the one thing that makes the game lose its fun.

It would be good to have a mod that allows the admin to determine the maximum number of each weapon, possibly as a ratio to each other. For example: 1 sniper, 1 zook, 1 shotty, 2 MG, 4 SMG, 4 M1. Would allow only 1 sniper up to 13 players. With more players, there could be 2 snipers.

But the BEST thing would be a way to shut up the annoying complainers/fight starters.

By the way, you don't really think that limiting the number of snipers will create teamwork, do you?

Many players don't play as a team or even intelligently with ANY weapon.

u dont have much of a chance to see good teamplay unless u join a clan...but there are those rare moments when it actually does happen

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Next to God...
...A Grunts Best Friend
http://home.att.net/~steinert/_borders/medsym.gif

Well, jujumantb, some of us just feel too old for the whole clan scene and think it too often degenerates into cliquish, silly nonsense ... but you have a point.

In my experience the best way to get teamwork from your fellow players is to *encourage* teamwork. Chat with them, swap ideas, keep everybody involved. If nobody is taking charge, bark orders (suggestions!) if you have to. Point out the enemy's position, call for a charge, whatever.

It doesn't always work, but if you're not stuck on a server where the players are mostly very young kids it can work. (I find younger players are less apt to want t work together and more apt to be in it for the trash-talking)

You all make good points from all sides of the argument. The main reason I started this post is cause most of the people who complain about snipers just make stupied comments like "Sniper suck ass" with out even proving a point. I like hearing the analyisists.
On the clan issue, I found out that most of the omaha games where there is a large number of clan members in it, are usually the ones with the best team work. There are some snipers, but they usuall just stick on the beach for the first minute or so and cooperate with the team, which I think is perfect (like pointed out, as long as theres not too many snipers).
If your bored, and some of the Allies on your team are just sniping on the beach...try turning friendly fire on and having fun with that maybe??? lol http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/wink.gif
Put seriously, I think when used effectively, in a non-camping way (and only a few at a time) sniping is an important part of the gameply.

hmmmmmmmmmmm..!!!
well.
1 maby 2 snipers for eatch team is the way it should be,when playing a clan match you
just cant get it right whitout a good sniper covering youre ass.???
shure,i can understand a player who at every respawn gets a bullit in the face..=)
BUTTTT.!!!
NO SNIPERS WOULD MAKE THE GAME LAME..!!!
(smaler posts please..=)=)=)

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http://w1.250.telia.com/~u25000015/images/sera_sig.jpg

hmmmmmmmmmmm..!!!
well.
1 maby 2 snipers for eatch team is the way it should be,when playing a clan match you
just cant get it right whitout a good sniper covering youre ass.???
shure,i can understand a player who at every respawn gets a bullit in the face..=)
BUTTTT.!!!
NO SNIPERS WOULD MAKE THE GAME LAME..!!!
(smaler posts please..=)=)=)

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http://w1.250.telia.com/~u25000015/images/sera_sig.jpg

HOW THE FUCK am i supose to use the bunkers and machine gun if theres sniper camping the beach dammit?!?!?!

"Camping the beach?"

Oh my ...

On the teamwork idea, it would be so great to have actual teams fighting each other. One plattoon against another with some sort of voice chat where the Axis are on one common channel and Allies on another. Then we could really get some team action in on the game and even more strategy. That kind of setup could definately settle the sniper question.

-Luckey

WELL... The main point here is that whoever
snipes sitting in a boat prtty much doesnt know how to play omaha. ESPECIALLY 4 THAT DAMN ALLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My biggest beef is the fact that on Omaha, you always have idiots playing Axis waiting in the boat for Allies to spawn. Other than that, it's a super game, I like all aspects of it (even bazooka, snipers, shoties, ect).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jujumantb:
u dont have much of a chance to see good teamplay unless u join a clan...but there are those rare moments when it actually does happen

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it does. Was playing the other night and 3 of us saved each others life during a round based match. Each was covering a side and when I was about to get shot in the back, one of the others got him. We all would do this time and again. This type of thing is really awesome.

Played the Snowy Park for the first time... what an experience. It's tough. No much hidding can take place compared to the other maps.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Raiden:
HOW THE FUCK am i supose to use the bunkers and machine gun if theres sniper camping the beach dammit?!?!?!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


the objective is not to mow down every ally on the beach. the objective is to defend the cannons until the time runs out.

if we had 2 snipers each team thats 2 bunks being covered which = still no mg-42 gunners.

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Starcraft is still good...... really I mean it.

Bah i withdraw my post it will never happen

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Starcraft is still good...... really I mean it.

Bah i withdraw my post no matter what there will always be snipers


damnit it posted twice
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Starcraft is still good...... really I mean it.

[This message has been edited by newbieassulted (edited February 07, 2002).]

If your so worried about not being able to use the MG42, how about you snipe them before they snipe you, and then get on the gun...
And on the teamwork..when you do have teamwork, even on a small scale, it is truely awesome, I think.

shoegaze, and the other clueless:

according to your logic, its the players problem and it shouldn't be blamed on weapons...

wtf are you going to do if your team decides to not work as a team. tell them they are bad people and say, 'I treat you with disdain, you foul people'. 'play as a team or else!'

the MAJORITY of games are pubs, and people arent gonna take orders from you. you can't trust people to do the right thing, this is the REAL WORLD, people do whatever they want. thats why if there are cheats available, people will use them, they dont care about you or working as a team.

ARSENAL LIMITATIONS ARE THE WAY TO PROTECT IDIOTS FROM RUINING THE GAME FOR EVERYONE, AND PROMOTING TEAMPLAY. WOULD YOU RATHER, TRY AND FIND 1 SERVER OUT OF MANY THAT HAVE PEOPLE WORKING TOGETHER, OR WOULD YOU RATHER GO TO ANY GAME AND FIND THAT EVERYONE IS WORKING TOGETHER, BECAUSE OF A REALISTIC ARSENAL BALANCING SYSTEM. special weapons like bazookas and sniper rifles are limited, cause they are SPECIAL WEAPONS.

on a different note, you are the kind of person that if you were in ww2, would cry on the floor if you weren't issued a springfield sniper rifle, and they gave you an smg instead. waaaaa

if movies like enemy at the gates wouldn't have come out, people wouldn't be so prideful thinking they are the best sniper in the world, and refuse to use anything else.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jonesy-the-cat2:
By the way, you don't really think that limiting the number of snipers will create teamwork, do you?

Many players don't play as a team or even intelligently with ANY weapon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

think about it, if they arne't on the beach sniping, what will they do?
stay on the beach and get shot? no they will look for more contact for enemies, that means going up the bunkers, oh wait, that's where you and your team is

WAIT A SEC, YOUR ALL GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION NOW. OH WOW.

hah, 'teamplay' in the bunkers, is bum rushing them with a large number of allies, there is no huge strategy involved, if they are there, that is more bullets going at the nazis. and maybe they'll shoot them instead of you, and you survive and get further up. that sounds like a bit of teamplay.

ah, but no, you would rather them stay on beach and snipe axis, so axis can instantly spawn right next to you as your coming up.
sounds like a plan jones.

friendly fire shows how well team play works. you get a good squad together, then some new guy joins with a bazooka, turns the corner, and with his trigger happy finger, fires off a shot and kills your whole squad, along with himself. team play requires team thinkers.

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http://www.taxrevue.com/zach/sig1.jpg
http://www.taxrevue.com/zach/sig2.jpg

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Strik0r:

the objective is not to mow down every ally on the beach. the objective is to defend the cannons until the time runs out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i know of people that think the way you do.
they all used cheats in the demo.
regardless of places intended by developers to be an insanely fun gaming experience, complete the mission at all costs. screw gameplay, screw it all, do whatever it takes.
i can tell your a dull person in real life.

im not saying sit back and do nothing, im saying let them come to you. if they want to snipe the hell out of the MG-42s, dont use the MG-42s. wait until they get bored or until their buddies start charging in through the bunkers.

poseyj, I don't like to be harsh, but in your case I'll make an exception. You managed to make your posts not only ignorant, but also offensive. Congratulations! You are obviously clueless. I can tell you are a very annoying person in real life.

You think the only strategy is to run, en masse, into the bunkers and try to shoot 'em before they shoot you. That is what I was talking about. No matter what weapons are allowed, it's the people like you that will ensure there is no teamwork.

The few times when there IS teamwork, it is very, very exciting and fun. Like people pairing up and providing covering fire, watching each others back, decoying, outflanking, rescuing a team mate under attack, actually trying to acheive the mission objective, etc.