I've been playing online since the day this game came out and I've noticed a few things about the state of this game's team play and I just have to bitch. I'm coming from a background like Starsiege: Tribes, so I have a firm understand of role and tactics. With this in mind, I have noticed the following about the average Medal of Honor player:

most people online DO NOT KNOW THE MEANING OF TEAM PLAY!!

I swear to god! Most people online see no difference between Objective Match and Free For All! When you join an Objective Match map, understand that there are certain conditions for a team to win. Try and complete the objectives sometime, the result is great!

Grenade spam... can we cool it with the random tossing of grenades? If I had a dollar for every time a team mate started chucking grenades over a high wall at what it most likely an empty room, I could pay off my student loans! You have a gun, try it out sometime. You'll find that they too kill people.

Snipers and rocket boys - believe it or not, guys... there are OTHER weapons in the game! Yeah! boggles the mind, don't it? Give them a try sometime... they work wonders!

People bitching in spectator mode about camping. Shut your mouths and wait your turn... when you're on the D, there's no such thing as camping so relax.

People bitching about cheaters... Guess what, kids? The last patch stopped that, so stfd stfu!

I just needed to get the above off my chest. General moronic behavior on the servers has me nearly throwing my mouse across the room. It's not good when I have to take a few minutes away from the game for deep breaths and to regain my composure.

Team???? What's that?.. and there's guns in MOHAA??? since when?

I too often kill my mouse!! it makes the rest work better!!!! DIE STUPID RODENT!!!!

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August 19, 1942
http://www.ncf.ca/~eo322/sig.jpg

I kiss you!

**kisess**
blows smoke ring.

Amen Brother! I come from a Counter Strike background. It's the same thing there. If you don't play as a team, you are gonna be in for a rough ride.

Some valid points, but sadly they have been heavilly discussed here already.

Not complaining, as you have as much right to talk about this as any other, but I'd be surprised if too many people comment on this.

Teamplay: Ultra rare on public servers. Wait until clan matches start up.

Grenades: They're there so get used to them. If someone wants to throw lots of grenades into random areas then they should be allowed to. It's a part of the game.

Objective: Same as Teamplay above, except in every objective game the objective is also to eliminate the enemy. So going out to kill as many as you can before you die, in my eyes, is just fine (the only exception to this so far is Omaha... When Allies refuse to plant the bombs, or Axis refuse to disarm them, it may as well be a deathmatch game).

Camping: Is fine if it is designed to reach the objective. If it's being used to just stay alive until the time runs out, it's crap.

As this is a game for the public it cannot possibly cater for everyone's personal tastes upon shipping.

Lan games, clan matches and mods will enable you to play in an environment you prefer, so patience is the key.

Until then, all I can suggest is to either stop playing on public servers altogether, or get used to how they are.

I've had some terrific team games on public servers, and I've had some crap ones. I expect nothing more, to be honest.





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[This message has been edited by Ydiss (edited February 07, 2002).]

nothing wrong with camping. last time i checked snipers dont run across the field sniping guys in the head as they hop over a body. agreed that people need to learn how to play in a team. the allies didnt send one man onto omaha beach to run at the bunkers guns blazing.

YDISS WHAT A PISSER OF A SIG
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH!

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Rocket, I totally agree about the team-playing thing! It seems that there’s practically no difference at all (in many player’s minds at least) between an objective match and a death match game. I was just telling my wife about this frustrating aspect of the game the other night. I find that in the Omaha Beach level, if the Axis are the least bit organized, then the Allies haven’t got a chance of winning if the Allies don’t get very organized, quickly. It seems the map is kinda set-up to the Axis advantage, in my opinion anyway. And that’s cool, but the Allies player’s need to pool their recourses. It gets damned frustrating running all the way from the beach, down through the bunkers, and then up the stairs with your team-mates, only to have everyone split-up above ground (death-match syndrome), while you get picked off by the Axis trying to set a bomb! OK, I can’t set the bomb AND kill Axis players too, come on. Of course when everyone works together to set the bomb and then protect the site from the enemy until it explodes is the greatest sense of accomplishment in team game-play! It just doesn’t happen enough.

I’m starting to look for a team (clan?) to join and play with. Hopefully then everyone will have the same goals in mind. Until then it’s kinda like rush hour traffic. Everyone is going down the same road, but they aren’t really working together to accomplish anything.

Still, a bad day at gaming is better than a good day at work! (Smile)

Steve . . .

EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF!!!!!

get a life

Many times I see players grenade-spamming chokepoints where they KNOW the other team will get there first and set up a defense. In this case the grenades are only discouraging opponents from using that area and thus forcing them to change their tactics. Valid gameplay if you ask me, but IMHO that would apply best on servers using a realism mod because you only have 3 grenades instead of 6, and you have to use them sparingly.

chucking grenades into an empty space can be read as good team play...

ie if ur trying to hold 1 flank back by chucking nades into an area where the enemy walk through then why the f3k, it will slow em down and allow ur team m8s to flank em.

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[Cpt|Raven|69th]

i never get chance to play as a team as usually my teams dead with in first 20 seconds and im normally left on my own to kill the whole axis team http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/wink.gif

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[Cpt|Raven|69th]

All you children are a bunch of grenade tosser's into areas that you don't even know people are in. It is one thing to see me, and toss one, but another just to toss'em randomly where you think people are.

Tossers and panzyshrekers are lame. If you want to toss, go to a porn site. You get a better feeling.

and ur calling me a child, i aint the 1 having a tantrum 8)

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[Cpt|Raven|69th]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gunny_Snipes:
All you children are a bunch of grenade tosser's into areas that you don't even know people are in. It is one thing to see me, and toss one, but another just to toss'em randomly where you think people are.

Tossers and panzyshrekers are lame. If you want to toss, go to a porn site. You get a better feeling.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

gunny i can guarantee if you were ever involved in urban warfare, you would be throwing you grenades around like a man possessed. i hate grenade spammers (almost as much as RL spammers) but you have to throw them into areas you know lamers camp in.

but throwing them for the sake of throwing them is wrong.



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it may not be throwing them for the sake of throing them,

if my teams advancing up 1 flank then i can nade the other flank to stop advancing enemies up that flank

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[Cpt|Raven|69th]

exactly, STRATEGIC throwing of grenades is cool, too many in one area is overkill.

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It doesn't matter how many grenades you issue at the start of any round. One, fifteen, three hundred... No one likes to be killed. It doesn't truly matter how they die, they'll either suck it up and wait their turn, or they'll complain and whine.

It is annoying to be killed randomly, but it's great to get a random kill.

The key word there would be random. The law of averages means that all possibilities are equally possible in the long run. You'll get your own random kills eventually.

That is, of course, if you don't refuse to throw a grenade unless you see a target. Yehhhh, ok.

It takes a grenade between 4-5 seconds to detonate after you've released the catch. Once the grenade leaves your hand it's out of your control. If the target decides to move away they will live and it's nothing to do with your skill at all that they die if they decide to not move.

If you pre-empt the opposition and make an educated guess as to their location before you loose the grenade you can make it virtually impossible for them to avoid it, no matter how much they move.

From time to time this will mean you see the enemy first and decide, with fore-though, where they will be when the grenade settles and detonates.

For the rest of the time it's all educated guessing.

I find it amusing when people complain about Axis grenade spam at the beginning of the Hunt. You can throw one grenade and be accused of grenade spam simply because each of your team-mates throw a grenade too.

If you spawn right at the front as an Axis player it's possible to lob around 4-5 grenades before you even see an Ally player, which I'd denote as grenade spamming.

I've done this myself and managed to get a silly amount of kills before the round has even started. I get bored of it. I sometimes force myself to never throw a single grenade in a round just to make things more interesting.

You'd be amazed how much you can surprise the Allies if you don't throw a grenade and just wait for them to pass you by while you mow them down one-by-one.

Some don't, though. Some rely on grenade spam to get high scores. These players tend to rarely play Allies.

Judge them how you like, but they have as much right to do that as you have to do whatever you choose as 'skillfull'.

I agree there's very little skill to throwing grenades into an area that has a high chance of enemy activity. It's called repetetive learning and every game has it.

Give an Axis player just one grenade and he'll still lob it down the road if he starts close to the front as an Axis.

The most hilarious thing I've seen is the Allies in a server bitching about grenade spamming when they themselves lob dozens of them into empty space.

Granted, it doesn't have such a devastating effect as the Axis grenades, but it's still hopefull.

I do think that to balance a map like The Hunt more they should have perhaps forced the Axis to spawn back some, or the Allies a little further up the road.

But the Axis already have the village under control to start with. This is prevelant to almost all of Europe in the war and it's just the way it is. The task the Allies have is to take that control back.

It's not like the Axis and Allies have some treaty that governs how far back the Axis are allowed to wait for the Allies to attack them.

Defending teams will always have advantages. If you want complete equality play Noughts and Crosses.

How fun is that?

Whether you like it or not grenades were a part of the war and they are a part of this game. I very much doubt that each greanade came with a code of use that governed where and where not to throw it.

6 grenades is probably a little too much for the balance of a game. 3 is a good amount, but it doesn't matter how many you get given you will always, always get bitched at for using them if you kill someone and they don't like it.

Some players just won't ever be satisfied unless you kill them with exactly the same methods and weaponry that they themselves use. Even then you can still get bitched at.

If you get killed in what you consider as a lame way, then you will always view that person in a low light. Good. You know you're better.

Then surely you should be able to beat them?

I have lost count of the times I've been killed by someone that is technically a lesser player than I am. If they kill me continually though I would start to reconsider my opinion of their skills.

And adapt!

Team work is all fine and dandy when it happens, but if you actually break down an entire server into it's individual parts you essentially have lots of individuals alone in their own spaces.

Sorry, but I won't instantly gell with people I don't even know and can't communicate with fluidly.

In America you all speak the same language, virtually. In Europe that isn't always the case. I will play team play if it's instantly available, and I know many players who will also do so with me.

But you need communication to work as a team and the voice commands available to us are all but useless.

Players who decide to go it alone and lob random grenades at places they presume will get them (and their team) kills have just as much a part to play as the camper who refuses to move from the Objective area until he is gunned down, or wins the round.

If you don't enjoy it go play TDM or DM.

In the end you'll always have people who whine when they die in a manner they dislike. I'd learn to ingore them just as much as they themselves should learn to curb their angst at dying.

Pretty elimentary really, isn't it?





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I agree with what Refresh_Deamon said in the first page. "Every man for himself"...believe, i like working in teamwork. I love that, providing firecover and going into groups BUT, that only works with your clan. If you go into a public server, most ppl will either BLOCK YOUR FREAKING DOORWAY and u will die from an enemy grenade in front of u OR they will give your position meaning that they will start talking or running instead of walking or shooting/throwing grenades, so the enemy will know your location. In obj. i know its teamwork, but as many friends have told me, its better to work alone than to work with a moron....rofl....coz if u work with a moron, u will die coz of him. know why? coz he is a moron. I have finished some MP obj. alone with sniper rifle only, but i changed to pistol...killed 5 allies and finished the mission. Dont call me a camper either coz if u read in another topic around here, my main wep is SMGs, i just snipe when i want to have some fun. Anyway, its better to work alone and make the obj. than to work with a moron and die in the process.

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*GEL*DeathStrike[gm]
Gods Elite Legion
www.godselitelegion.s5.com

Let them nade, i go behind em and blast em with a shotgun.

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Starcraft is still good...... really I mean it.

One of my names in MOH is medic with a shotgun by the way...

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Starcraft is still good...... really I mean it.

Throwing a tantrum? Birds of a feather flock together, my little chickadee........

How old are you?

Tossers are tossers. Plain and simple. Using them strategically is fine. But tossing em just because that is the one avenue most traveled while you spray and pray is stupid. Takes the fun out of the game. People looking for kills, rather than skill.

not at all. if u were a soldier and u knew that for the enemy to get to a point A they had to travel through point B wouldnt u nade point B?

BTW im 24



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[Cpt|Raven|69th]

I hear ya!

I have lots of fun no matter what. But some things really annoy me.

First, the NON-PROBLEMS:

If people don't want to set the bomb, fine. Let's just shoot each other. It's called a DeathMatch. Some people have been known to play them for fun. Doesn't bother me.

If people want to set the bomb, even better.

If people don't want to go in pairs and cover each others backs and provide covering fire, oh well.

If they DO work as a team, YAY! Love it!

If all the enemy wants to be a sniper, no problem. I will be a sniper too and have fun sniping their butts.

If all my team wants to be snipers, cool. I will get lots of covering fire as I move in, take out lots of enemies, and maybe win the game.

If the enemy has a thing for shotguns, no problem. I will take a shotty too and go to town.

If the enemy camps, I will hunt him down.

If my team mate camps, I will have more of a challenge.

Next, the PROBLEMS:

Players who get easily annoyed and just have to turn the game into a contest of name-calling and insulting.

If you don't like what someone is doing, then either learn to deal with it, or even like it, or politely mention it and try to be constructive.

Example situation:

You find yourself part of a team of snipers on the beach.

Solution A:
You crouch down in the corner of a boat, and mention that your team won't be able to win with so many snipers. Would someone please switch to another weapon and team up with me to plant a bomb?

Solution B:
You run straight up the beach like you were 10 feet tall and bulletproof, because you have a bunch of snipers keeping the Germans from shooting you. You then use stealth and strategy to try to plant a bomb and guard it alone. After a while your allies get bored because all the Germans are playing with you, so they start to move in and/or switch weapons.

Solution C:
You start a long period of complaining, name-calling, insults, and abuse to try to get things your way, which of course doesn't work but only pisses off the other players.

Most people choose Solution C. That is what ruins the game for me.

Ydiss, congratulations on the longest post ever! Tolstoy would be jealous.

Grenades have good strategic uses. Sometimes you just have to lob them where you know enemies are likely to be, even if you didn't see any there. Sometimes you get accidental kills with them, which you love. Sometimes you are the accidental kill, which you hate. Sometimes you play catch with yourself because of limitations of the game more so than lack of skill.

In urban warfare, I would not, as I have been trained to do, toss nades at point b just because I would think that they would be there. A little gun fire always comes first. Then comes the nades.

These 'kids' toss first and shoot when they are out of nades. They are usually dead within 30 seconds after their last toss, because they can't shoot effectively.

I saw this one game where this 'kid' died a record ,(in my opinion) 40 times. His kills were at 19. He tossed the whole game.

I was a sniper on that map for the Axis, (he was on my team) and I only died twice with 87 kills. That was the Omaha map where Axis Defend. (I also had a ping of 15)

I'd own you.
http://www.9cy.com/members/gunny/banner/iownyou.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gunny_Snipes:
In urban warfare, I would not, as I have been trained to do, toss nades at point b just because I would think that they would be there. A little gun fire always comes first. Then comes the nades.

These 'kids' toss first and shoot when they are out of nades. They are usually dead within 30 seconds after their last toss, because they can't shoot effectively.

I saw this one game where this 'kid' died a record ,(in my opinion) 40 times. His kills were at 19. He tossed the whole game.

I was a sniper on that map for the Axis, (he was on my team) and I only died twice with 87 kills. That was the Omaha map where Axis Defend. (I also had a ping of 15)

I'd own you.
http://www.9cy.com/members/gunny/banner/iownyou.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


exactly thats why (as i have been trained) we put up battlefield obstacles. we make an area to difficult to move in and the enemy follow the obstacle and it forms a BOTTLENECK where we wait and apply fire AS NEEDED. not via turffing nades willie nillie!

urban warfare is one of the most fucked up environments to fight in. i personally prefer bush.


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*Comming soon...The COMMIE NAZI Homepage*

Jonesy... Yeh, I got home last night after a piss-up and was fairly drunk. http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

I felt I needed to put my point across as clearly as I could, heh.

You do agree with me, though http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/smile.gif

Gunny, I'd not class those players as kids as a rule, although I know what you mean.

You do prove in what you said that those who do play that way don't tend to do very well, though, so does it really matter?

You mention kills and deaths so I assume you're refering to Deathmatch or TeamDM. There isn't any objective but to kill as many as you can in those, so random grenade lobbing is perfectly justified there, imo.

This thread really refers to objective mostly and how some people only use grenades to get easy kills.

I'm not sure that I'd enjoy this game as much if all we had was rifles, smgs and mgs and nothing else. That'd be so limiting and there'd be a lot less variety to keep us going for long.

Some people's opinion is that grenades should be used this way, others think they should be used another.

The thing about opinions they are neither right or wrong. They're just opinions.

In real life most soldiers had rigorous training (or at least as much as they could fit in) before they got sent into battle. They would be fully aware that randomly chucking their grenades would probably just waste them. They would be fully aware of tactics and how working as a team will get results.

But this is a game. It may be lame in your eyes to use grenades first then run in blindly to meet death, but for the person who does it it might just be considered fun.

You really wouldn't want to play a game that perfectly modelled war down to the very finest detail.

It'd be a shite game then.

Whether someone uses grenades as a team effort or not, whether someone uses a shotgun, smg, mg, sniper, rocket or pistol, they all have their right to do whatever they enjoy.

Until someone dies and you become King you don't really have any right to say they don't.

You're entitled to your opinion though.

My opinion is if I am not enjoying a game because of something someone else does I either stop playing or make it as hard as possible for them to do it.

I have to bite my typing tongue a lot. I get stressed when someone who is crap gets loads of kills from using 'cheap' tactics.

I do keep playing though, and I presume you all do too. The better moments always outweight the worse, especially if you're a good player.

tell me an internet ip so i can play online

there are a lot of differences in opinion.

Whiners become my #1 target.

As mentioned, this is a game, not real life. When you die, you come back to life and try again!

After playing the Hunt a few times, who in his right mind will not lob grenades into the rooms on the right side of the street, even if he doesn't know for sure that someone is in there?

No. No. Can't do it. Have to exchange gunfire first.

Yeah. Good way to die.

For the past month or so i've been playing RTCW and having a great time. I didn't bother visiting the forums as i was to addicted to playing!

Now the fact that MoH isn't out in England i decided to check out the forums and see what the people are saying.

Jesus people, it's a game. People can do what they want. It might be annoying, it might not be fair but so what!? War aint fair.

Pringle