Zoo Opinions/Debate
 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/03 ... index.html
[img]http://img82.exs.cx/img82/3731/storyelephantap3yq.jpg[/img]
Peaches was 55-years-old when she died.

Zoo elephants swaying back and forth, polar bears swimming in endless circuits and manic monkeys grooming themselves to baldness.

Such disturbed, trance-like behavior in some zoo animals and the deaths of four elephants in the past year at two U.S. zoos have sparked animal rights protests and renewed a larger debate over the purpose of zoos.

Defenders say zoos serve important purposes, including offering access to researchers, providing money and expertise for habitat preservation elsewhere and as repositories of genetic material for fast-vanishing species.

Critics say captivity is both physically and mentally stressful.

"We might see within our lifetimes a great reduction or extinction of these animals," as their natural habitats are squeezed by the crush of human populations, said Bill Foster, president of the American Zoo and Aquarium Association. "Extinction is not acceptable."

Zoos originally gave city dwellers the chance to marvel at the world's fauna and later promoted habitat preservation, but those purposes have been eclipsed, critics say.

"In the old days, when you didn't have television, children would see animals for the first time at the zoo and it had an educational component," said Tufts University animal behaviorist Nicholas Dodman.

"Now the zoos claim they're preserving the disappearing species, preserving embryos and genetic material. But you don't need to do that in a zoo. There's still a lot of entertainment to zoos," he said.

Elephants are often chosen in surveys as the most popular zoo animals and a newborn calf draws many visitors. But seeing animals behaving oddly in zoos is more disturbing than educational, said a spokesman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA).

Oxford University researchers contended 40 percent of zoo elephants display so-called stereotypical behavior, which their 2002 report defined as repetitive movements that lack purpose.

The report said studies have shown zoo elephants tend to die younger, are more prone to aggression and are less capable of breeding compared with the hundreds of thousands of elephants left in the wild.

Elephant deaths
Moreover, critics say many zoo elephants, though hardy, spend too much time cramped indoors, get little exercise and become susceptible to infections and arthritis from walking on concrete floors.

Following the deaths of two of three African elephants housed at Chicago's Lincoln Park Zoo in the past four months, animal rights activists said their demise was hastened by the stress brought on by their 2003 move from balmy San Diego.

Zoo curators denied climate was to blame and concluded that Tatima, 35, died from a rare lung infection and Peaches, at 55 the oldest of some 300 elephants in U.S. captivity, suffered from organ failure.

When two elephants in San Francisco's zoo died within weeks of each other last year, the resulting outcry prompted the zoo to opt to send its remaining elephants to a California sanctuary against the wishes of the American Zoo and Aquarium Association.

Detroit's zoo director, who decided his zoo lacked the space or resources to keep elephants, also had a fight with the association about sending his elephants to a Tennessee sanctuary. The association relented only when one elephant showed signs of herpes.

Detroit's zoo was the eighth North American zoo to stop exhibiting elephants since 1991, according to PETA.

"For the modern-day zoo to have elephants does nothing for the preservation or conservation of the species. And it does nothing for the welfare of the elephant," said Carol Buckley, who created a Tennessee sanctuary that now cares for a dozen cast-off zoo and circus elephants.

Foster of the zoo association countered that many northern zoos have successful elephant programs with plans to expand.

Calves born in captivity have higher mortality rates and survivors often have to be isolated for a time from their inexperienced mothers, who may trample them.

Based on the Oxford University report that found 40 percent of zoo elephants engage in stereotypical behavior, the report's sponsor, Britain's Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, urged European zoos to stop importing and breeding elephants and to phase out exhibits.

Dodman said he frequently observes stereotypical behavior among zoo animals: polar bears rocking in place or swimming in endless circuits, parrots grooming themselves until they bleed, gorillas regurgitating and re-ingesting meals, and big cats pacing the same routes in trance-like patterns.

Most zoos embrace efforts to enrich the animals' lives by varying feeding rituals and providing toys, with some success; an Alaskan zoo is even building its elephant a treadmill. But elephants and other animals that range widely in the wild are less easily distracted, critics say.

Some zoos give animals behaving stereotypically the same antidepressant drugs found to ease compulsive behaviors in people, Dodman said.

The key is providing more space and companionship for elephants, which often travel in large herds and forage for hours, Buckley said.
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What do you guys think about Zoo's? I've always hated them, even as a kid, as I love animals. You always hear about the space they're meant to have, the activites they do in Zoos but when you actually visit them all the of the animals look half dead. Like it says, rocking about, being bored trapped in a cage all day every day with dumb idiots flashing cameras at them saying 'Awwww look at the little kittycat!!'

There are too many Zoos, in my opinion zoos should be like an eden for the animals, only built in the right places, with the biggest of enclosures. No flash photography either.
We've gotten to the point where Zoos are (and were before now) just a family entertainment cash-cow. I'm all for educating kids about animals and the environment but there needs to be more restrictions concerning how Zoo's are run.

I know this is a long read for some of you dudes but I think its pretty important to get your views...

I think they should get rid of them, only ever been to a zoo once and didn't really like it. There was a polar bear whos mate had died a few weeks before, he was just treading up and down in his enclosure his paws never budged from the cycle he had got himself into, every time round his paws were hitting exactly where they had hit the previous time around.


I remember one time a lion supposodly escaped around 2am turns out it got into some other enclosure and drowned in the pool in it, probably fucking drowned itself it was so bored\depressed looking.

loney:

Aren't the purpose of zoo's to help hurt animals and nurse them better then let them go?

I think they are just taking animals and putting them in the zoo for people to see.

The zoos around here have like 50ft drops around the enclosed animals area so if an animal was to fall it was dead.

I wouldnt mind to rid of them.

that sucks .. they should just let them roam the streets.

12 Monkeys

I think the idea of the inner-city zoo, for bigger animals is a bad idea. They just can't make big enough habitats for the animals to feel like they're free in.

They should just have more nature reserves, where rangers can follow-up and monitor the activities of the bigger animals, such as elephants, big cats, bears etc....They could also offer tours for the public, where a group could be taken around in a vehicle to watch the animals...

Much like they do in Africa. It's better for the animals and also makes it a more romantic experience for the public who visit, seeing the animals live in their habitat, happy and acting as they would if they were unwatched.

The smaller animals are easier to cater for in city zoos, basically because of their size - they only venture around in a smaller habitat, and wouldn't notice walls all around them.

do it up like a jurassic park. an issolated island where animals roam free and live in harmony.. happy:

You'd prolly still get some retard getting out of his car to take an up close pic, remember that vid. oOo:

A Gf1 Zoo?

I think there is some value in having zoos for people to visit. I enjoy going to zoos everywhere i go to see the different types of animals, but yes it is sad to see them caged up in that type of habitat.

[quote:25e61]There are too many Zoos, in my opinion zoos should be like an eden for the animals, only built in the right places, with the biggest of enclosures. No flash photography either.
We've gotten to the point where Zoos are (and were before now) just a family entertainment cash-cow. I'm all for educating kids about animals and the environment but there needs to be more restrictions concerning how Zoo's are run. [/quote:25e61]

I completly agree with this statement.

I completly agree with this statement.[/quote:9a115]

Yea, I actually do too.

animals shmanimals...

the article in question was based on the tree hugging liberal mamma boys from PETA. There is nothing wrong with zoos. They offer alot for people of all ages. Everything that PETA does or says is so slanted I have a hard time reading thier articles. Im sure you could pull up some articles that offer the exact oppisite view from a group that is on the other side of the fence from PETA.



PETA = sucks


go eat a burger!!!!!

I enjoy visiting zoos, but I do see animals looking unhappy.

Peta may be extremist, but it seems we are just being pricks about how we treat animals at these places hwere the environment is too small.

It is like caging your child in the basement not letting them move around like their species normally would.

[img]http://jmc7.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/gf1/zoo.jpg[/img]

thats a bad analogy. People and animals are not the same. Animals are food. Keeping a human in a cage and an animal in a cage are two totally different things

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":ba3e5]
thats a bad analogy. People and animals are not the same. Animals are food. Keeping a human in a cage and an animal in a cage are two totally different things[/quote:ba3e5]

Humans are editble too.

If all animals were treated as food, the human species will no longer be human. I mean in the sense that we have a choice, like if someone is dying in the jungle they could like kill something and live normally.

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":c9d7a]
thats a bad analogy. People and animals are not the same. Animals are food. Keeping a human in a cage and an animal in a cage are two totally different things[/quote:c9d7a]

Dude, what the fuck? Do you eat elephants? Lions? Tigers? Bears? Oh My?

no I dont eat those (except bears) but I would if Michigan had a hunting season on them. Ive never seen an elephant in the woods. Kill it 'n grill it!!!!!!!!!!!

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":eebbe]
no I dont eat those (except bears) but I would if Michigan had a hunting season on them. Ive never seen an elephant in the woods. Kill it 'n grill it!!!!!!!!!!![/quote:eebbe]

You need a couple more viewings of Bambi.

I dont base real life on fiction, bambi is a good movie but it isnt real (sorry to spoil that for you)

now i'm outraged... fuckin' zoos... biggrin:...

[url=http://news.sympatico.msn.ca/OddNews/ContentPosting.aspx?contentid=53b542fdbb6b41339ead 5b3c69034bdd&show=False&number=0&showbyline=True&s ubtitle=&detect=&abc=abc:15b87]Lobster[/url:15b87]

EDIT: Addy way too long. -Arkan

Rid of them completely...

The only good thing to come out of the zoo is watching monkey's deficate and manually stimulate themselves.

He survived two world wars and prohibition, but a trip to the zoo proved too much for a 10-kilogram lobster named Bubba.

lmao!!!

[quote:cdca2]Bubba will be examined to try to determine the cause of death [/quote:cdca2]
that will be one delicious examination happy:
[img]http://users.mikrotec.com/~csdye/images/boston/eating%20lobster.jpg[/img]

"we need 50cc's of butter, STAT!!!!!"...

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":24cad]
thats a bad analogy. People and animals are not the same. Animals are food. Keeping a human in a cage and an animal in a cage are two totally different things[/quote:24cad]
I am usually one to agree with you but I disagree completely with most everything you have said in this thread.

Animals are very much like humans. They eat, breathe, sleep, bath, communicate ect... All because they look different and communicate different doesn't mean they all should be treated like shit.

Not all animals are food. Some, I agree, can be eaten but I don't think you are going to kill an elephant and eat it.

There is no need to take anything from it's enviroment and put it in a cage just for entertainment while treating it like shit in the process.

p.s., get a new sig, tis to big.

anyone got that vid? happy:

the bottom line is zoos are a biznis, dead animals dont bring in the people ie money. Mistreated animals dont bring in the people ie money. I dont have first hand knolwege of how zoos operate but Id guess the animals are treated the best they can. The worst thing Ive seen while at a zoo is that the animals look bored as hell.


PS Id love to go on safari and whack an elephant


PSS Zoner made the sig about 3 years ago so Im sure it is within the giudelines of the forums

Zoo's are ok but i'm all for land preservation and letting the bigger animals run free on it. I hate to see land being used up for homes, buildings, roads..etc, etc. This planet is only so big and we're running out of room.

/me wishes the Earth was the size of Jupiter

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":11cf1]
no I dont eat those (except bears) but I would if Michigan had a hunting season on them. Ive never seen an elephant in the woods. Kill it 'n grill it!!!!!!!!!!![/quote:11cf1]

oOo:

People like you are the reason why animals become extinct....."LET'S "WHACK" AN ELEPHANT YEAH COOL"

I suppose you endorse seal bashing and whaling....

P.S - I can't believe you eat bears, what a fucking hillbilly....

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":bff9b]
PS Id love to go on safari and whack an elephant

[/quote:bff9b]

That's maximum redneck.

hake:

you couldnt be further from the truth. The hunters in Africa are the reason the animals are still there. If you hunt an elephant (yes there are areas where there are too many elephants) the monies you pay go to habitat rebuilding and to further the species. If it wasnt for hunters and the HUGE amount of money they generate there would be far more extinct animals in the world today. In the US hunters put out more money to provide habitat than any other gorup in the world. More than any animal rights group or anyone else. There are many sucess stories that directly involve hunters and the money they generate. One of the largest sucess stories is that of the wild turkey. the NWTF (National Wild Turkey Foundation) has had programs to reintroduce the birds all accross the country and now there are huntable populations where the bird was almost extinct in the past. Hunters do not rape the land but respect it far more than most other people and pay alot to keep it that way

This is why we should set up a secondary habitat on Mars!

Well we'd have to figure out the whole oxygen thing first, I suppose...

Bwahaha rock: biggrin: +1

[quote=Tripper] oOo:

People like you are the reason why animals become extinct....."LET'S "WHACK" AN ELEPHANT YEAH COOL"

I suppose you endorse seal bashing and whaling....

P.S - I can't believe you eat bears, what a fucking hillbilly....[/quote:75093]

+1 trip babe, spot on. On the subject of Jupiter and Mars, I wish we could send all the hillbillies there....

My thoughts exactly.

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":396b5]
you couldnt be further from the truth. The hunters in Africa are the reason the animals are still there. If you hunt an elephant (yes there are areas where there are too many elephants) the monies you pay go to habitat rebuilding and to further the species. If it wasnt for hunters and the HUGE amount of money they generate there would be far more extinct animals in the world today. In the US hunters put out more money to provide habitat than any other gorup in the world. More than any animal rights group or anyone else. There are many sucess stories that directly involve hunters and the money they generate. One of the largest sucess stories is that of the wild turkey. the NWTF (National Wild Turkey Foundation) has had programs to reintroduce the birds all accross the country and now there are huntable populations where the bird was almost extinct in the past. Hunters do not rape the land but respect it far more than most other people and pay alot to keep it that way[/quote:396b5]

Yeah, I can honestly see how bludgeoning an elephant for his tusks can help him in the long run... rolleyes:

The hunters in africa are NOT the reason why the animals are still there....I can't believe you're trying to feed me this shit...The reservations, rangers and locals who support the animals are the reasons why they're still there. How can someone that only murders and poaches, be helpful to the advancement of any species they kill? It's a fucking anomaly.

Hunters only provide more money to the "habitat" so they can have more of the animal to hunt the shit out. There's nothing noble about it....and it's definitely not respect, as you put it.

You should be embarrased.

again you are wrong. the money pays the saleries of those rangers. Poacher and hunters are on the oppisite side of eachother. Poaching has been reduced because of the money paid by the hunters. As far as killing for tusks, that is VERY illegal. The tusks go to the African govt. When you book a hunt in Africa you need two things. A permit and a guide. The permit costs alot (goes to the African Govt.)and the guide takes the meat from the kill and it goes to his village to feed his people. The tusks (if elephant hunting) are replicated in something other than ivory. exporting ivory is a huge nono. I can, and will, find facts to back up my statements. I respect mother earth more than anyone on this board and have nothing to be embarresed about.



PS I have never heard of someone bludgeoning an elephant, but spin it how you like

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":00533]............I respect mother earth more than anyone on this board.........[/quote:00533]

Now how did you come to that conclusion?