Secret FBI Report Questions Al Qaeda Capabilities
 

Not suprising. I agree wholeheartedly that the Al Qaeda threat is overblown. Fear mongering is the name of the game.

There's a lot of fear mongering here in the UK right now as Blair tries to ram an "anti-terrorism" bill through Parliament. Apparently there are 200 Al-Qaeda dudes on the streets of the UK just waiting.....waiting to KILL US ALL!!!!




sleeping:

Fear = control. happy:

[quote="Jin-Roh":275a2]Fear = control. happy:[/quote:275a2]

I'm going to kill you if you don't grow a beard.

[quote=Ferich]I'm going to kill you if you don't grow pubes.[/quote:ca7ca]edit:

[quote:67c36]U.S. Using Anti-Terror War to Gain World Oil Reserves — Soviet Intelligence Chief

Created: 21.03.2005 14:05 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 14:05 MSK

MosNews

On the pretext of fighting international terrorism the United States is trying to establish control over the world’s richest oil reserves, Leonid Shebarshin, ex-chief of the Soviet Foreign Intelligence Service, who heads the Russian National Economic Security Service consulting company, said in an interview for the Vremya Novostei newspaper.

Using the anti-terrorist cause as a cover the United States has occupied Afghanistan, Iraq and will soon move to impose their “democratic order” on the Greater Middle East, Shebarshin said. “The U.S. has usurped the right to attack any part of the globe on the pretext of fighting the terrorist threat,” Shebarshin said.

Referring to his meeting with an unnamed al-Qaeda expert at the Rand Corporation, a nonprofit research organization in the U.S., Shebarshin said: “We have agreed that [al-Qaeda] is not a group but a notion.”

“The fight against that all-mighty ubiquitous myth deliberately linked to Islam is of great advantage for the Americans as it targets the oil-rich Muslim regions,” Shebarshin emphasized.

With military bases in Afghanistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan, Shebarshin said, the United States has already established control over the Caspian region — one of the world’s largest oil reservoirs. [/quote:67c36]

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/03/21/shebarsh.shtml

that odd movie you sent me said there is no such thing as an "Al Qaeda". The Bush administration made it up according to the 'documentary'. I'm sorry, but that pissed me off and I deleted it. biggrin:

lol no Al Qaeda annoy:

Its not really that odd, it was produced by the BBC. And its not like he was just throwing the idea out there without facts, its part of a three part series that explains a lot. It goes over from 1945 right up to todays political climate. Anyway, not suprised you deleted it. Its a shame people can't look at things with an open mind though.

Our jobs as citizens is to question the government. If we all didn't care, then there'd be no "checks and balances". We elect these people. Their there to sure us. So I have no problem question politicians on the things they decide and do.

if they send you orders to ship out to afghanistan are you going to question them?

Why shouldn't he? If he is going to put his life on the line for his country, shouldnt he be completely sure of why? And that it is actually a perceivable threat?

[quote=strvs]Why shouldn't he? If he is going to put his life on the line for his country, shouldnt he be completely sure of why? And that it is actually a perceivable threat?[/quote:43d90]

can you turn down orders ?

[quote=rdeyes][quote=strvs][quote=rdeyes][quote=ninty9][quote="Coleman":f8805][quote="ninty9":f8805]Not suprising. I agree wholeheartedly that the Al Qaeda threat is overblown. Fear mongering is the name of the game.[/quote]that odd movie you sent me said there is no such thing as an "Al Qaeda". The Bush administration made it up according to the 'documentary'. I'm sorry, but that pissed me off and I deleted it. biggrin:[/quote]

Its not really that odd, it was produced by the BBC. And its not like he was just throwing the idea out there without facts, its part of a three part series that explains a lot. It goes over from 1945 right up to todays political climate. Anyway, not suprised you deleted it. Its a shame people can't look at things with an open mind though.

Our jobs as citizens is to question the government. If we all didn't care, then there'd be no "checks and balances". We elect these people. Their there to sure us. So I have no problem question politicians on the things they decide and do.[/quote]



if they send you orders to ship out to afghanistan are you going to question them?[/quote]
Why shouldn't he? If he is going to put his life on the line for his country, shouldnt he be completely sure of why? And that it is actually a perceivable threat?[/quote:f8805]

can you turn down orders ?[/quote:f8805]
[url="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/06/60II/main659336.shtml"]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/ ... 9336.shtml[/url]

Apparently.

[quote=strvs][quote=rdeyes][quote=strvs][quote=rdeyes][quote="ninty9":112fd][quote="Coleman":112fd][quote="ninty9":112fd]Not suprising. I agree wholeheartedly that the Al Qaeda threat is overblown. Fear mongering is the name of the game.[/quote]that odd movie you sent me said there is no such thing as an "Al Qaeda". The Bush administration made it up according to the 'documentary'. I'm sorry, but that pissed me off and I deleted it. biggrin:[/quote]

Its not really that odd, it was produced by the BBC. And its not like he was just throwing the idea out there without facts, its part of a three part series that explains a lot. It goes over from 1945 right up to todays political climate. Anyway, not suprised you deleted it. Its a shame people can't look at things with an open mind though.

Our jobs as citizens is to question the government. If we all didn't care, then there'd be no "checks and balances". We elect these people. Their there to sure us. So I have no problem question politicians on the things they decide and do.[/quote]



if they send you orders to ship out to afghanistan are you going to question them?[/quote]
Why shouldn't he? If he is going to put his life on the line for his country, shouldnt he be completely sure of why? And that it is actually a perceivable threat?[/quote:112fd]

can you turn down orders ?[/quote:112fd]
[url="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/06/60II/main659336.shtml"]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/ ... 9336.shtml[/url]

Apparently.[/quote:112fd]

annoy:

It's how to get elected in the USA.

you cant, we are trying to get rid of our "Canadian" governor in MIchigan right now (Jennifer Granholm) . This bitch has raised every tax we have, I think her upbringing has something to do wiht it. If you ever come to Michigan can you take her back with you?

I bet she could kick your ass old man.

[quote="Short Hand":1990d]I bet she could kick your ass old man.[/quote:1990d]


naw, Ive seen her, she is older and smaller. I could take her. I saw her when I took my daughter to see the senete voting on a bill we were supporting. I will take her out with my vote. I hope the other Michiganders do so. The power of the people!!! rock:



PS I wish she would get rid of that damn mole on her face. I cant help but to stare at it when she talks. Its like there is another life form on her cheek

[img]http://www.epochtimes.com/i5/401224601956.jpg[/img]

chicks + government = oOo:

I had the open mind all the way up to that. There was some pretty bogus stuff in there. I just didn't feel like hearing material that was so left without anything else given to represent the other side. I thought it was rediculous to sit there and waste my time watching how the Bush Administration built Al Qaeda.

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":bd640][quote="Short Hand":bd640]I bet she could kick your ass old man.[/quote:bd640]


naw, Ive seen her, she is older and smaller. I could take her. I saw her when I took my daughter to see the senete voting on a bill we were supporting. I will take her out with my vote. I hope the other Michiganders do so. The power of the people!!! rock:



PS I wish she would get rid of that damn mole on her face. I cant help but to stare at it when she talks. Its like there is another life form on her cheek

[img]http://www.epochtimes.com/i5/401224601956.jpg[/img][/quote:bd640]

eww

well i'll be happy to send you the other two parts so you can see it wasn't the bush administration, but rather both groups built each other. The neocons and radical Islamists feed off each other.

The film does not say that 9/11 was organized by Bush. It does say that al queda is no where near as strong as politicians tell us.

I have to go to school now. I'll respond more latrer.

http://www.groundforce1.com/forums/viewforum.php

I remember it specifically saying that there was no such thing as Al Queda. It was what the Bush administration labeled the group of Islamic Terrorists and from there they became an organization. I'm sorry, but that is bull in my eyes. THere is no set of facts from some website/article or even the f'in BBC for the matter, to change my mind on that one.

[quote="Mr.Buttocks":d79ae]
There's a lot of fear mongering here in the UK right now as Blair tries to ram an "anti-terrorism" bill through Parliament. Apparently there are 200 Al-Qaeda dudes on the streets of the UK just waiting.....waiting to KILL US ALL!!!!




sleeping:[/quote:d79ae]

It was then discovered that the more accurate number was something like 18 oOo:

Thats correct. Whats in a name? Bin Laden never publically said that his "clan" was called Al Queda until after the label had been applied. The film doesn't argue that terrorist groups don't exist. They acknowledge that these groups had a part to play on sept 11. All the video is saying is that politicians can exploit our fear to get what they want. And why wouldn't they?

9/11 provided the perfect catlyist to allow the government to implement sweeping changes to rights, and to increase defence spending substantially in the name of security and freedom. Hitler did the same thing. Why is this any different?

[quote:6aee8]None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who
falsely believe they are free.
-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
[/quote:6aee8]

They can't ship me out to afghanistan because, unlike the US, reservists in Canada have to volunteer to go overseas. Right now the entire contingent overseas is reg force. In the future, there will be reserve forces overseas, however, those people who want to go can volunteer and will probably get to go.

are you serious?

I'm dead serious.

You can't deny that civil liberties have been curtailed in the US on the grounds of Security. This is exactly what happened in Germany in 1933. There are many comparisons to be made, I will admit certainly not as drastic as '33 Germany, however, they are still there.

Holding people without trial for indefinite amount of time.

Pre-emptive strikes on other countries in the name of security.

Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, press and peaceful assembly have all been infringed.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0126-02.htm

http://www.bushflash.com/14.html

Please tell me all of the liberties that I personally have lost and how much of a deal this is putting me in. I will not be held in jail for any amounts of time because of suspicious terrorist activities. I can say whatever the hell I want (minus shouting 'there's a terrorist!' at the Inaugural Parade).
rolleyes:

I'm not taking about you personally, i'm talking about the 280 million US citizens as a whole. I know not everyone is going to be put into jail and held indenfinetly, but is has happened to other people. Just because it doesn't happen to you personally, doesn't mean its not happening.

[quote:3bf2b]Keeping the law intact "will do great and irreparable harm" to the Constitution by allowing the government to investigate people's reading habits, search their homes without notice and pry into their personal lives, said Bob Barr, a former Republican congressman who is leading the coalition.

Mr. Barr voted for the law, known as the USA Patriot Act, in the House just weeks after the Sept. 11 attacks but has become one of its leading critics, a shift that reflects the growing unease among some conservative libertarians over the expansion of the government's powers in fighting terrorism.[/quote:3bf2b]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/032305G.shtml

so did the CIA fly the planes into the building or was it the mossad?

[quote=rdeyes][quote=strvs][quote=rdeyes][quote=strvs][quote="rdeyes":eb29c][quote="ninty9":eb29c][quote="Coleman":eb29c][quote="ninty9":eb29c]Not suprising. I agree wholeheartedly that the Al Qaeda threat is overblown. Fear mongering is the name of the game.[/quote]that odd movie you sent me said there is no such thing as an "Al Qaeda". The Bush administration made it up according to the 'documentary'. I'm sorry, but that pissed me off and I deleted it. biggrin:[/quote]

Its not really that odd, it was produced by the BBC. And its not like he was just throwing the idea out there without facts, its part of a three part series that explains a lot. It goes over from 1945 right up to todays political climate. Anyway, not suprised you deleted it. Its a shame people can't look at things with an open mind though.

Our jobs as citizens is to question the government. If we all didn't care, then there'd be no "checks and balances". We elect these people. Their there to sure us. So I have no problem question politicians on the things they decide and do.[/quote]



if they send you orders to ship out to afghanistan are you going to question them?[/quote]
Why shouldn't he? If he is going to put his life on the line for his country, shouldnt he be completely sure of why? And that it is actually a perceivable threat?[/quote:eb29c]

can you turn down orders ?[/quote:eb29c]
[url="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/06/60II/main659336.shtml"]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/ ... 9336.shtml[/url]

Apparently.[/quote:eb29c]

annoy:[/quote:eb29c]

Canada denies refugee status to US Iraq war deserter.. back to work traitor

I don't know. Why don't you ask them:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html

[quote:0408b]Canada denies refugee status to US Iraq war deserter.. back to work traitor[/quote:0408b]

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/619/619p14.htm

[quote:9e138]If convicted, he faces up to seven years in prison.[/quote:9e138]

I guess they don't hang people for desertion anymore.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/619/619p14.htm[/quote:1ef05]

boo fucking woo ! do these people think that when they join the ARMED services its going to be a walk in the park .. enjoy hotel leavenworth

I think I'll use my own common sense over the thousands apon thousands of left articles.

sleeping:

As I re-read my post, it seems like I was fathering or lecturing you guys with the beginning points below, or sort of telling you that there’s something wrong with you since you’re conservative. Everyone has a different ideology. Reading it over I have realized that I probably didn’t word the following the best, but I don’t really want to change it since I wrote what I was really feeling at the time. I hope that everyone will take the time to read it. I don’t know how relevant it is to anything we’ve discussed, but I’ve typed it up now, so I may as well post it.

===========================

As I sit here typing it bothers me for some reason that some can't acknowledge another side of the story.

I was just like you guys up until a year ago. I was a conservative. I voted conservative in the Canadian Federal Election in the summer of 2004. The Conservative Party of Canada is the farthest right wing federal party in Canada.

http://www.conservative.ca/english/index.asp

You can see this from the front page where it says "defence of marriage". They are anti abortion, anti gay etc.

I started doing a lot of 9/11 research just out of my own interest. Actually, I think Mr. Buttocks sent me some links that I looked at and found interesting. And I wanted to know more.

I have always been interested in the political process, both Canadian and American. It is something I enjoy very much. Perhaps that is why I get a little passionate at times. If I have seemed crazy, or offended anyone in any way, I apologize. It can get heated in here.

My goal is to make people see another side of the story. I think that if I can get people to understand where I’m coming from and back it up with facts, maybe people will start caring about what’s going on around them instead of taking everything as normal in stride.

My political idealism has changed a lot in the past year. I come from a hardcore Conservative Christian background. My grandmother is an evangelical Christian who hates gays, rock music, corporate restrictions, and abortion among other things. My father is a Conservative based upon he wants to make the most money as possible. He hates the government taking away all they do. I don't think he’s concerned about the policies of a conservative party really, he said he would vote for bush if he lived in the states because my father is involved in the oil patch, and bush is good for the oil business.

When I go over to my grandmother’s house for dinner she brings out some new book she got telling her to hate Muslims or gays or whatever. Last time it was rock music. I read parts of the book at her house. It called Queen's "we will rock you" the "homosexual anthem" of the 20th century which is sung at many sporting events. The book is completely ridiculous. But she believes it with all her heart.

Se also believes in God with all her heart. So much so that she would sacrifice her children if god asked her to. What’s the point of me telling you this? I'm not sure. I guess it’s that my family is too far-gone to turn around. And what does it matter if I get a couple guys on an internet to read something different than they find on their local news channels? I don't know why it matters. But it does for some strange reason. I guess it’s the same reason that we all keep posting here.

I leave you with an article as always:

If this can't be taken seriously, I don't know what can. It’s from the BBC. The Telegraph but also ran the story, as well as The Independent but you need a subscription to view the Independent's article. These are three very credible news sources. If we can't believe these sources, then who can we believe?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 559151.stm
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/mid ... tory=94438
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/ ... iden23.xml

If one accepts these sources, then the question becomes, why would the government label these men as terrorists, and if we believe this is not a mistake by the government, what else is the government not telling the truth about?

Or we can all just choose to accept that either the government, or the press and other people reporting on the story made a mistake and move on with our lives.