No Love for Africa
 

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/ ... ex_np.html

[quote:50f9d]Broken promises
Bush declines to increase U.S. aid for Africa as a new U.N. report reveals the expected toll in child deaths from the failure to reduce global poverty.

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By Larry Elliott and Patrick Wintour

June 8, 2005 | WASHINGTON --

Three million children will die in the poorest countries of sub-Saharan Africa as a result of the failure of the global community to meet its promise of slashing the death rates of children under age 5 by 2015, the United Nations is to reveal Wednesday. With Tony Blair Tuesday struggling to persuade George W. Bush to back Britain's ambitious plans for Africa, the U.N. Development Program said the human cost to Africa in child deaths would be the equivalent of twice the combined under-5 population of New York, London and Tokyo.


A study by the UNDP -- timed to put pressure on G8 leaders ahead of their summit at Gleneagles, Scotland, next month -- showed that based on current trends, the global community will miss by a wide margin the targets it set for poverty, infant mortality and education in the millennium development goals agreed to by the U.N. in 2000.
[/quote:50f9d]

When will we learn that other countries won't hate us if we just helped others. Here, we have the opportunity to save 3 million childrens lives, but instead almighty Bush decides to spend it on the death of thousands of Iraqis. And we wonder why America doesn't get any respect...

sigh, i dont know what to say really. I mean I could be harsh and say, American citizens come first, and when we are completely satisfied with their well being we could begin to help other less fortunate countries. Then again, these are only children, and they are dieing because we are not keeping our promises. Then again, is it really fair that most of the times(no offense to any citizens of other countries) that america has to pay most of the money? And fact is, other countries will still hate us. we stuck our nose in Mogadishu, and look what happened. We were only there to help. But two black hawks were destroyed, and 23(i believe) soldiers came home in body bags. Sometimes it is best to let other countries sort out their own problems. This is probably far fetched, but if the african countries formed a sort of african union, kinda like eu, im sure they could get a lot of things done. And after all this rambling, if I were put on the spot, im not sure what I would do. I suppose it would only be right if we helped to support blairs plan, since u cant put a price on a life. However, it is doubtful teh american public would care about lives in some far off country. They would think of themselves as being the priority, and if bush chose to help them he would be crtisized for that. And really, since when has politics been about doing wats right? sigh...

Man, he couldn't have picked a worse time to do this (not like there ever IS a good time to cut aid to Africa...asshat). Every woman in America had their heart melted and panties moistened by Brad Pitt's PrimeTime Live interview last night, which showed him and Diane Sawyer in Africa helping impoverished kids.

gg Dubya rolleyes:

Hah, i forgot all about that Zoner.

23 dead, apposed to thousands in Iraq? Whats the logic difference in this war and that battle? Nothing. Both were faught for tyranny and justifying genocide (not WMD as first argued). This is where i could say Iraq has oil, but I really hate that argument.

Think of all the good PR we would get with other nations if we pulled out of Iraq and became the country of goodwill? Start premoting peace and equal treatment of others. Help out in Africa, feed the hungry in India, bring oppurtunity and developement (with out bringing in Westernization). Also, remove bigotry and harrassment with in America. Then bring down corrupt corporate leaders sucking the world dry. What would people think of us then?

Are you worried now we will be unprepared from an suprise attack from a foreign country, while we are pussy footing around the country? Its not as if we won't have a military, we'll just be fighting defensive.

fuck america

What did ya expect...him to actually help out instead of kill?

First of all, I never said anything about agreeing with being In Iraq. And this is another perfect example of how helping out doesnt work out. Supposedly we are there to liberate the people(at least tahts what we are told), but all i can see is about a thousand US soldiers, dead, and the majority of teh people dont even want us there. Most of the countries of the world thought we acted far too rashly. Etc. I could go on, but this isnt what we are talking about so i wont digress. And I will say this. America, and all other countries as well, are all doing things not because they want to be nice, or help out, but because they have their own political, financial, and militaristic agenda's. No country will give billions of dollars of money to help the needy in some far off african country. They do it because they know the countries will be indebted to them, and to gain their trust, and cooperation. And I will say this. First off i doubt America's attitude will change. Second, if people really want to hate us, they will find a reason to hate us. There is always a reason. And a surprise attack is sorta outta question, since most of the countries that could pull off something like that are supposedly our allies. However, we have to be ready for anything.

/agree

Bush is a compassionate conservative republican. Thats why.

how about the fact that all the money and aid that we give goes to the corrupt warlords and political factions who are intentionally starving their enemies? somalia anyone? from what i've read, all bush wants is a little stability first before pouring money needlessly down the drain and it ends up in the backpocket of some corrupt gov't and would not go toward feeding the kids

ps we could give away all our money to every tom-dick-harry country who needs something and still they would hate the US...doesn't matter who is in office

That's not necessarily true. Alot of the international community are against american foreign policy at the moment because they haven't seen them do anything other than the Iraq war. A bit of money to the right cause would would demonstrate that it's not all just for self. Then again, the U.S might not give any money, it's totally up to them to decide how much they care about other nation's view of them - because essentially that's what the money thing is all about.....

why doesnt some other country come up and put a "little money" in the coffer before america makes a donation .... let brad pitt and angelina make a donation since they are so "down" with the cause.

how about 100% of their take from Mr & Mrs Smith?

hah!

I heard that they plan on droping dept to 20 nations threw out the world for past dept's. 14/20 country's are in Africa as well. onsidering that these countries are paying 13 dollers on every 1 doller lent to them is insane.

Perhaps countries could have some domestic structure if they didn't have to pay $13 for every $1 borrowed from the world bank.

African countries don't have a chance.

Considering Western nations "are" responsible for much of the instability/Poverty in Africa, we sort of have a dept to settle to them. a Dept drop and a further push of Tony Blair's plan would be a great start. Should the people of a nation be forced to carry the dept of a former dictator who took power in a military type takeover to say ?

How are the western nations resposible for conditions in Africa? If you feel the need to help out by all means go do so. Don't try to lay a guilt trip on me though, I've been pitching in for over 30 years.

[quote="Short Hand":541a8]Considering Western nations "are" responsible for much of the instability/Poverty in Africa, we sort of have a dept to settle to them. a Dept drop and a further push of Tony Blair's plan would be a great start. Should the people of a nation be forced to carry the dept of a former dictator who took power in a military type takeover to say ?[/quote:541a8]

BAHAAAAAAA happy:

nice try but thats not the reason , the reason is that most if not all of the leaders in africa are corrupt and theres to much hatred between tribes, look at rwanda and sudan , ethopia. like i said in my earlier post. let some other countries step up and take the lead in this plan, theres hunger in america thats needs to be looked at first

Apartheid - South Africa

http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~ca ... .hist.html

Leopold In The Congo

http://www.chinooksedge.ab.ca/projects/ ... lgium.html

Dutch Arrival in South Africa

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/afric ... ter2.shtml

Slavery (HMMMMM)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/afric ... ion9.shtml

Imperialism

http://members.aol.com/TeacherNet/World.html

Corporate ass fucking (the top one has tons to read)

http://www.africaaction.org/docs97/shel9705.2.htm

&

http://www.peoplesgovernance.org/statements/072202.htm

The list goes on of Western crimes/abuse/exploitation's done threw OUT Africa. Africa would be a much better place if the past could be changed. I find it harsh that you feel no obligation to drop depts with these countries. "Why should a people be responsible for a military dictator who borrowed the money ? Even if this man was not elected or chosen "by" the people " ? That is just silly. rdeyes, you have no fucking clue buddy. Africa is what it is becasue of our anchestors. & even people today around us continue this circle of exploitation.

Which western nation was it that invented slavery?

i dont know for certain but i'm pretty sure the U.S. has forgiven the debts of some of the countries in Africa. I'm not sure on that...i'm at work with no high speed internet so i dont have the patience to creep through google to find it...i could be wrong on it

just a quick questio for Short, who sold the slaves to the US? I think it may be other Africans so why would they shoulder the blame? i know its easier to blame the US cause everything is thier fault,

what has canada done lately for africa ? so quick to blame all the worlds problems on America, its no use talking to you about world politics, africa isnt a US problem its a world problem and we shouldnt have to foot the bill.

I though I heard the Canadians were sending a Peace Keeping force.

MY god guys, all western/ european nations have a responsibility to Africa, not just the US, I never mentioned you as the only ones.......If you had read threw even one of those.

Just a note, the Dutch started the slave trade, & other nations were involved as well.

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":ffb91]just a quick questio for Short, who sold the slaves to the US? I think it may be other Africans so why would they shoulder the blame? i know its easier to blame the US cause everything is thier fault,[/quote:ffb91]

The minority of slave trades were made by Africans themselves, and besides, there wouldn't be a market for them if there weren't western, white, consumers buying them. I hate it when people use that as a fallback argument, usually trying to deny any "blame" for the situation.

I have to agree you guys jumped the gun on crucifying Short on this one - He did only mention western nations and never singled out the U.S, so shut the fuck up about that.

BTW, Short, its THROUGH....Not 'threw.' spank:

Grammer is not my calling. ed:

[quote="Short Hand":8cf14]MY god guys, all western/ european nations have a responsibility to Africa, not just the US, I never mentioned you as the only ones.......If you had read threw even one of those.

Just a note, the Dutch started the slave trade, & other nations were involved as well.[/quote:8cf14]

Wrong trading slaves is an very old custom from the dawn of time. It can't be blamed on any modern nation. Slavery was the norm until late in the 18th century. Still practiced in the Midle East.

Western slave trading/ mass slaving in Africa started half a century ago, yes slaves have existed since almost the dawn of time. But that is not what we are talking about John rolleyes:

WTF half a century ago was the 1940/1950. Your saying some mass slave trade was started 50 years ago by some western nations. annoy:

How about a link.

MILLENIUM******** MY BAD MY BAD ********

That would be 500 years ago. 1505 and the new world was discovered in 1492. Sounds like slavery was a bad habit left over from our roots in Europe.

Americans and Europeans took slaves. The Europeans stopped importing slaves from Africa before America did and allowed their slaves to stay and become citizens of their nations. Americans brough their slaves to of course America and also the Carribean and South America were many of them died becuase of brutal labor and poor treatment. For the most part Americans TOOK slaves and never really bought them from other Africans.

On a side note slavery is fucking disqusting, it's amazing that other people can claim the life of another human being for their personal service.

Oh Spike the slave trade was well established by the time the United Stated was born. African tribes would raid each other and take prisoners, which would be sold into slavery in the markets of The Barbury Coast. The slavers would buy the slaves for $20 to $50 and pack them into their ships for the trip to the slave markets in America and Europe, or pack trains to the Middle East. The slaves would be sold for several hundred dollars ensuring huge profits, which is why the slavers didn't care if a lot of slaves died during the transit. Most western nations outlawed slavery during the 19th century.

[quote="africanhistory.about.com":af5d6]

For two hundred years, 1440-1640, Portugal had a monopoly on the export of slaves from Africa. It is notable that they were also the last European country to abolish the institution - although, like France, it still continued to work former slaves as contract labourers, which they called libertos or engagés Ã* temps. It is estimated that during the 4 1/2 centuries of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, Portugal was responsible for transporting over 4.5 million Africans (roughly 40% of the total). During the eighteenth century however, when the slave trade accounted for the transport of a staggering 6 million Africans, Britain was the worst transgressor - responsible for almost 2.5 million. (A fact often forgotten by those who regularly cite Britain's prime role in the abolition of the slave trade.)

Africans had been traded as slaves for centuries -- reaching Europe via the Islamic-run, trans-Saharan, trade routes. Slaves obtained from the Muslim dominated North African coast however proved to be too well educated to be trusted and had a tendency to rebellion.

The transport of slaves from Africa to the Americas forms the middle passage of the triangular trade. Several distinct regions can be identified along the west African coast, these are distinguished by the particular European countries who visited the slave ports, the peoples who were enslaved, and the dominant African society(s) who provided the slaves.

Expanding European empires in the New World lacked one major resource -- a work force. In most cases the indigenous peoples had proved unreliable (most of them were dying from diseases brought over from Europe), and Europeans were unsuited to the climate and suffered under tropical diseases. Africans, on the other hand, were excellent workers: they often had experience of agriculture and keeping cattle, they were used to a tropical climate, resistant to tropical diseases, and they could be "worked very hard" on plantations or in mines.

Trans-Atlantic imports by region
1450-1900

Brazil 4,000,000 35.4
Spanish Empire 2,500,000 22.1
British West Indies 2,000,000 17.7
French West Indies 1,600,00 14.1
British North America and United States 500,000 4.4
Dutch West Indies 500,000 4.4
Danish West Indies 28,000 0.2
Europe (and Islands) 200,000 1.8
Total 11,328,000 100.0

[/quote:af5d6]

It's way too late for pulling out of Iraq if we pulled out now we'd look even more like dipshits than if we cut off African aid. It had to be one or the other and Iraq has become Bush's obsession. I vote move to Switzerland.

I know mang. I didn't say I think we should pull out now. Also, that Switzerland idea isn't bad.

people will always hate america, its that simple