Man shot 'not connected' to bombings
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/23/london.tube/index.html:e1a93]Here[/url:e1a93] is the rest of the story. I thought only us yanks were triggerhappy.

Well others are trigger-happy, just not as much as the second biggest country in North America.

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20050724/ts_nm/security_britain_dc:8bae7]Here[/url:8bae7] is an update.

I don't blame them. The dude was running away. Now if he had a bomb and they hesitated to shoot, the world would scrutinize them for not shooting. Either way, people will find fault in it.

I think they made the right choice. No one needs to run away from the police like that in a train station (especially after what happened on the other week).

If they were so concerned about this guy they would have stopped him before he got anywhere near the tube station. They were tailing him from the moment he left the block of flats they were monitoring, all the way to the tube station. En route to the tube station, the guy caught a bus. Apparently it's ok for a suspected suicide bomber to board a bus. oOo:

[quote="Mr.Buttocks":4232b]
If they were so concerned about this guy they would have stopped him before he got anywhere near the tube station. They were tailing him from the moment he left the block of flats they were monitoring, all the way to the tube station. En route to the tube station, the guy caught a bus. Apparently it's ok for a suspected suicide bomber to board a bus. oOo:[/quote:4232b]that probably fits under the second thing i described ---> He might be a bomber, but we don't know for sure. I can't do anything about it or the media will have my ass for it.

Guess they had to kill the guy so they wouldn't miss tea and crumpets. Those darn Englishmen.

Point being, though: if I saw a bunch of guys running at me with MP5's or whatever the hell they had, I'd probably try to shoot them if I had one, if they didn't ID themselves as cops. It takes a split second to pull my gun, so hopefully they say "police freeze" very very quickly.

In England the police (Bobies) don't carry guns. So if someone starts waving a gun around yelling STOP I'd run away. Also in England it against the law for you to own let alone carry a gun.

looks like that shot his argument down.

I just think the guy was either retarded for running or felt like he had something to hide (drugs or something else illegal). But then again, the authorities would have probably stated if they found any illegal substances on the guy so that rules that out.

And remember, the 3 guys that confronted him, and chased him, were in plain clothes. I don't know if these are the guys, if they're not then there from the same 'group' of people.

[img]http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/8537/x1pnudbtfnwokdtmmgy9ewb0avfcdt.jpg[/img]




Out of the 3 main people chasing him, only one person was seen to be brandishing a gun -- an automatic pistol -- as the guy was chased into the train. Also worth nothing; A journalist was in the carriage when the guy was killed. He said that the Brazilian guy tripped as he ran onto the train, and the guys chasing him jumped on top of him, then shot him 5 times.

yeah, i dont understand why they shot him if he was already pinned down.

yup this also puzzled me, why shoot him if hes pinned?

Maybe they thought he was going to detanate a bomb he might have been hiding in his jacket. Just a thought. Still messed how they shot him like that though.

no doubt it was a very difficult decision to make at that point that needed to be made immediately. Sometimes thinks like that just happen and you can't really do anything about it.

Well the people who shot the guy needs to be punished for abuse of power and excessive use of force.

Despite the concerns of human rights activists, police say they will not abandon what they called their "shoot-to-kill in order to protect" policy with suicide bombers. They have warned that more innocents could be killed

Who ever came up with this plan is stupid: .

I find it funny, how these attacks are not happening in America.. I mean if an uneducated Mexican can make it..why can't a sophisticated terrorist network do it as well ?.....(buy the explosives in South America, Smuggle them into the United States, hit a more important target, Acheive your goal...This makes much more sense..easier....) Why target Britain and avoid America ? Something is not right at all, everything seems way to fishy to me. I am not saying I beleive the conspiracy theory's.. but I do find all of this very funky. ed:

[quote="Short Hand":6d687]I find it funny, how these attacks are not happening in America.. I mean if an uneducated Mexican can make it..why can't a sophisticated terrorist network do it as well ?.....(buy the explosives in South America, Smuggle them into the United States, hit a more important target, Acheive your goal...This makes much more sense..easier....) Why target Britain and avoid America ? Something is not right at all, everything seems way to fishy to me. I am not saying I beleive the conspiracy theory's.. but I do find all of this very funky. ed:[/quote:6d687]

In their eyes Britain is pretty much just as bad. They've already hit the U.S bigtime, and hadn't hit Britain until july 7th....What's the issue? What makes you think they're avoiding America, and not just waiting?

How is this at all "fishy" to you?

It is easier, more important, why not ? why choose such a target ? I mean when you play COD.... do you shoot for the head or neck ? All this attack has done is rally the British people a bit mre causing the opposite effect of which the terrorist exist for. They are not what they are for being making stupid choices on what & where they do what they do.

Perhaps you should look at who stands to gain from such an attack.

Tony Blair..... ed: his approval rating shot up 17 %....and counting.

Yep Blair does definitely gain. Anti terror legislation now passes:

http://www.xtramsn.co.nz/news/0,,11965-4570206,00.html

After the second incident that happened a few days ago, I even heard that they were going to have an emergency vote that night to pass the legislation.

The legislation has also been described as similar to teh USA patriot act.

And take a look at this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4341659.stm

83% say Lords are right to block government anti terror bill. Also read the coments.

I know this is one website, and definetly does not represent all Britons, but it gives you an idea.

[quote:b1a35]The Brazilian man who was mistaken for a suicide bomber was shot eight times by police, his inquest has heard.

Electrician Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder, at Stockwell Tube station, south London, on Friday
[/quote:b1a35]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm[/quote:4cbe5]


at least they are good shots!


Shorthand, you dont need to smuggle the bombs over, look at what Tim McVay (sp?) did

[quote="Short Hand":ab2a3]It is easier, more important, why not ? why choose such a target ? I mean when you play COD.... do you shoot for the head or neck ? All this attack has done is rally the British people a bit mre causing the opposite effect of which the terrorist exist for. They are not what they are for being making stupid choices on what & where they do what they do.[/quote:ab2a3]

I think it would be safe to say that they wanted to attack the UK in order to get similar results that they got when they attacked Madrid. They bombed Madrid and Spain pulled out of the Middle East. Maybe they thought if they did the same to the UK, that they would have one less opponent in the middle east. --just a thought

Hmmmmm...

Britain to pull 5,500 troops out of Iraq
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... wstop.html

If you notice the date, this was announced before the bombings. Man, Al Qadea must be really stupid. Britain announces their withdrawing over half their troops, but they decide to blow london up anyway because this will make the British...


Oh wait now I remember! Al Qaeda hate freedom!

Al Qaeda...can infiltrate the most powerful country in the world, smash planes into the most secure building in the world, and blow up london all just because their crazy fanatics and they hate freedom. Yep, sounds like the largest and most organized terrorist group in the world to me

wow, that was pretty stupid then.

Or how about it doesn't make any sense...which is why myself and others call into question these types of acts and try to decipher who actually causes them.

what have you come up with?

In my opinion, Al Qaeda doesn't really exist. It may have existed at one point, but I believe it’s in tatters now. I don't believe there are terrorist cells everywhere. I'm sure there are some, but Al Qaeda doesn't have the capacity to have thousands of followers willing to die in the name of Allah and Bin Laden.

What I would estimate is that there was cooperation between small parts of Al Qaeda and the US government in the Sept 11 attacks, and the same goes for the bombings in London.

From the research I’ve done I have almost even convinced myself that the US government was the sole player in the Sept 11 attacks and didn’t involve any Islamic terrorists at all. I wouldn't like to believe that, but the more I look, the more it seems that way.


I believe 100% that the US and British governments in some form were involved. This could just knowing of the incoming attacks, or full blown involvement. This I can never be sure of and no one can really be sure of. The only people who know are the officials themselves. All I can do is look at the information presented before me and draw conclusions, which is what I have done.

The main question that needs to be asked is “who gains from this?”

What does Al Qaeda gain? They got to kill a bunch of people. Is that it?

What does the US and British gain? Implementation of controversial legislation including patriot act, national id cards, increased defense budget spending, stimulation of economy through war, money for the largest industry (that being defense contracts), the ability to search and detain anyone under the terrorism act etc. I could go on and on.

Two videos I would very much recommend watching are:

The BBC's series "The Power of Nightmares" 3 episodes @ 1 hour each that specifically deal with Neo-conservatism and Islamic fundamentalists
and
The Directors Cut of “In Plane Site” which is about 1 hour and 12 minutes and specifically about the acts of 9/11.

I'm sorry but I can't imagine how the US Government would in any way attempt to assist in what happened on 9/11 no matter what "facts" you think you have found.

London bombings were probably just a few local british muslims that joined in the fight. Whose to say they have any connection to al queda at all? They probably just hear all about the war on terror on the news and decide they want to be a part of this holy war.

Thats fine.

What about from people that were there and people in high ranking government positions?

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/07/321879.shtml
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6679
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/read ... tNum=99739
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/07/321476.shtml
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds12.html
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3358
http://www.arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/a ... /29242.htm
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6964
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/read ... Num=101210
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3259

I know that you have all those articles and all that, but how can you be sure that all of those people are telling the truth? I know some of the sources may be reliable, but what if the person is just plain lying to get attention. No one in the government is evil enough to do something like that. I don't care how much you hate George Bush, the man is not evil. An evil man would never do the things he has done or the way he recognized handicapped kids at a tball game on Sunday.

I'm not saying your beleifs are stupid or anything, I just can't imagine someone, especially George Bush doing something like that just so they could invade Afghanistan or Iraq, it doesn't make sense logistically or morally.

Why would a firefighter who rescued people on 9/11 lie about this?

Anyway, Bush isn't "Evil", he's really a puppet. The administration has a plan, and their executing it to perfection.

Ever read any of PNAC's stuff? Outlines pretty much everything that has happened so far:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/Rebui ... fenses.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_fo ... an_Century

I'm sure Hitler went to TBall games. People liked him too.

who knows why he would lie, there are many reasons. ie: he wasn't actually a firefighter, he has emotionally disturbed by the day, he wanted fame

I think you are bordering on paranoid with all of these things you are reading on the internet. It doesn't matter to me that you want to think up these scenarios and research them and use them to hate America but I just can't buy into it, sorry. I think its very highly unlikely that America is a new nazi germany.

You'll be the first one I admit i was wrong to if we ever start to become evil in that sense.

It's on video. The firefighters name is Louie Cacchioli. I'll try to find it. He made comments on the day of 9/11 that there were explosives in the towers as if they were meant to bring the towers down. There's no real fame with this.

It's not like I jsut decided to read this stuff and today i'm a conspiracy theorist. I've been doing this for a couple years now.

I don't think he's being paranoid at all. You don't learn how to fly airliners at top speed and perform precise navigation in a couple of lessons in a Cessna.

Here all i'm focusing on is the reports of controlled demolitions. There is a pile more evidence, but for me to write it all up would take literally weeks.

A little fact for you is that only three steel buildings have ever collapsed from fire in the history of the world. WTC1 WTC2 and WTC7. The owner of WTC7 also said that they "pulled it" on a PBS program. He said it was determined that the building was unsafe so they put explosives in it to bring the building down. I would think that it would take more than a couple hours to set all the explosives. Usually takes weeks or careful planning when they bring buildings down. Anyway, the official report says that WTC7 collapsed because of fire. So someone's story is wrong.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE ... losion.wmv

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE ... osions.mov

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE ... ness.2.wmv

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE ... ness.1.wmv

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE ... snbc.2.wmv

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_firefighters.mp3

The above mp3 is edited from the radio transmissions of North Brunswick Volunteer Fire/Ladder Company #3 on 9/11. The mp3 begins with the collapse of the south tower, @3:23 there are three beeps - this signifies that time has moved on roughly 20 minutes to the collapse of the north tower.

Numerous reports of explosions are made in the transmissions...

I can't find the video, but here is a transcript of what Louie Cacchioli said:

[quote:c7934]fireman2: We made it outside, we made it about a block.
fireman1: We made it at least 2 blocks.
fireman2: 2 blocks.
fireman1: and we started runnin'
fireman2: poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch
fireman1: Floor by floor it started poppin' out ..
fireman2: It was as if as if they had detonated, det..
fireman1: yea detonated yea
fireman2: as if they had planned to take down a building,
boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom ...
fireman1: All the way down, I was watchin it, and runnin'
fireman3: Just ran up west street.
fireman1: Then you just sort of ... this cloud of s___
just chasin' you down
fireman4: Where did you go?
fireman3: Just ran up west street.
fireman2: You couldn't outrun it.
fireman1: You couldn't outrun it.
fireman4: So what did you do?
fireman2: I jumped behind a battalion car,
I hid under the car, I was waitin' to die.[/quote:c7934]

And look here for an excellent article on Louie Cacchioli

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/ar ... /29548.htm

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/TooEXCLUSIVE/northtower_jetktla1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/TooEXCLUSIVE/northtower_collapse_close1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/TooEXCLUSIVE/northtower_jetktla2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/TooEXCLUSIVE/southtower_jet2.jpg[/img]

There are better pics than that but for some reason I can't find them.

Anyway, I know i'm not going to change anyones mind here. Your definetly not going to change mine. I know what I know, and I'm glad that I do. I would hope that the US government is honest and all nice like you say, but they've already proved they aren't...WMD anyone?

See you on the other side.

What do you think happened, Johnj?