The protests outside Crawford:
 

Found this video. Interesting insight to what is going on there. I'm sure you've all heard of this on the news...or maybe you haven't. I'm not sure, I don't watch any TV news.

Anyway, jist of it is this womans son went back to Iraq for another tour and was killed and now shes demanding answers outside of Bush's ranch and a bunch of other people have showed up.

http://homepage.mac.com/godofkarma/swim ... ter75.html

Bush lied to start a war, I hope he burns in hell.

Pretty much all the wars of the past 100 years have been started by lies.

Reichstag fire by Hitler
Pearl Harbour
Vietnam and the PT boats
Gulf War and the incubator babies
Afghanistan
Iraq

that lady is nuts. She originally met president bush after her son had died and made a statement that he was very kind and made her feel better, but then a while later she changes her mind and makes up some story about Bush being some jackass at the ceremony thing they were at. Her whole family has issued a statement saying they still support the troops and the president and are sorry for Cindy's attempt to use what happens politically.

I'm sure there are people who are angry at Bush for their sons and daughters dying in Iraq, but they signed up, they knew the risk. It's terrible when they die, but it happens, and their lives helped protect ours. This woman is just weird though, she completely changed her mind and made up some insane story about things Bush did when she met him that are obviously untrue.

Bush changed his mind from "WMD's" to "Regime change" - does that make him nuts too?

Hoys Shit. You watch wayyyy too much Fox News.

She didn't change her mind. The first time she met him, she was discussing with the people with her if she should go all out, or be respectful. She chose the respectful route. He opinions of the president haven't changed.

I read an article about this very topic, and how much of the mainstream media are labeling her a crackpot who flipflops. Does she not have the right to ask why her child died? I think shes got more of a right than anyone here.

she first talked with michael moore, doesnt get much more crackpot-ish than that

i feel for her and her loss but if you dont know the risks (that you may see combat) when you sign up, don't sign up.

she said the president came to the event and was laughing and joking about what it was for, asking who he was there to remember jovially and joking inappropriately. That's obvious bullshit, no president would be allowed to go to an event like that unbriefed and no president would not act like that, especially Pres Bush. That would be the exact opposite of what I saw of him when I got to meet him.

This woman has been getting letters and emails from her family asking her to stop her tirade and to just come home, now she's using her publicity to make demands about Israel leaving Palestine. Its obvious there is a lot of phoniness about her. I am sorry that she lost a son, but she's turned it into something disgraceful to his memory.

Mr. Buttocks, he didn't change his mind, more clear facts were supplied by our ailing intelligence agencies. We could get into the argument over the war in Iraq, but I think both of us have our own beleifs and we aren't gonna change each others minds and it would be getting offtopic.

the media at the crawford ranch is usually just trying to find something to do. They're giving this woman too much coverage b/c there's nothing else to report down there.

I think both sides are slanting her comments to benefit themselves. Here is the original story from 2004 that was in her local paper: http://www.thereporter.com/republished/ci_2923921

It does appear to me that she was not as bitter back then as she is now. We all go through stages of grief. Anger is one of those stages. She's just a little more public in her grief than most.

'I'm So Sorry'

In emotional private meetings with the families of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, President Bush offers solace—and seeks some of his own.

By Holly Bailey and Evan Thomas
Newsweek


Aug. 22, 2005 issue - The grieving room was arranged like a doctor's office. The families and loved ones of 33 soldiers killed in Iraq or Afghanistan were summoned to a large waiting area at Fort Bragg, N.C. For three hours, they were rotated through five private rooms, where they met with President George W. Bush, accompanied by two Secret Service men and a photographer. Because the walls were thin, the families awaiting their turn could hear the crying inside.

President Bush was wearing "a huge smile," but his eyes were red and he looked drained by the time he got to the last widow, Crystal Owen, a third-grade schoolteacher who had lost her husband in Iraq. "Tell me about Mike," he said immediately. "I don't want my husband's death to be in vain," she told him. The president apologized repeatedly for her husband's death. When Owen began to cry, Bush grabbed her hands. "Don't worry, don't worry," he said, though his choking voice suggested that he had worries of his own. The president and the widow hugged. "It felt like he could have been my dad," Owen recalled to NEWSWEEK. "It was like we were old friends. It almost makes me sad. In a way, I wish he weren't the president, just so I could talk to him all the time."

Bush likes to play the resolute War Leader, and he has never been known for admitting mistakes or regret. But that does not mean that he is free of doubt. For the past three years, Bush has been living in two worlds—unwavering and confident in public, but sometimes stricken in private. Bush's meetings with widows like Crystal Owen offer a rare look inside that inner, private world.

Last week, at his ranch in Texas, he took his usual line on Iraq, telling reporters that the United States would not pull out its troops until Iraq was able to defend itself. While he said he "sympathized" with Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq, he refused to visit her peace vigil, set up in a tent in a drainage ditch outside the ranch, and sent two of his aides to talk to her instead.

Privately, Bush has met with about 900 family members of some 270 soldiers killed in Iraq or Afghanistan. The conversations are closed to the press, and Bush does not like to talk about what goes on in these grieving sessions, though there have been hints. An hour after he met with the families at Fort Bragg in June, he gave a hard-line speech on national TV. When he mentioned the sacrifice of military families, his lips visibly quivered.


All war presidents find ways to deal with the strain of sending soldiers off to die. During the Vietnam War, LBJ used to pray after midnight with Roman Catholic monks. Bush's father, George H.W. Bush, prayed with the presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church on the eve of the first gulf war. For George W. Bush, these private audiences with the families of dead soldiers and Marines seem to be an outlet of sorts. (They are perhaps harder for Laura, who sometimes accompanies Bush and looks devastated afterward.) Family members interviewed by NEWSWEEK say they have been taken aback by the president's emotionalism and his sincerity. More complicated is the question of whether Bush's suffering is essentially sympathetic, or whether he is agonizing over the war that he chose to start.

Bush routinely asks to see the families of the fallen when he visits military bases, which he does about 10 times a year. It does not appear that the White House or the military makes any effort to screen out dissenters or embittered families, though some families decline the invitation to meet with Bush. Most families encourage the president to stay the course in Iraq. "To oppose something my husband lost his life for would be a betrayal," says Inge Colton, whose husband, Shane, died in April 2004 when his Apache helicopter was shot down over Baghdad. Bush does, however, hear plenty of complaints. He has been asked about missing medals on the returned uniform of a loved one, about financial assistance for a child going to college and about how soldiers really died when the Pentagon claimed the details were classified.

At her meeting with the president at Fort Hood, Texas, last spring, Colton says she lit into Bush for "stingy" military benefits. Her complaints caught Bush "a little off guard," she recalls. "He tried to argue with me a little bit, but he promised he would have someone look into it." The next day she got a call from White House chief of staff Andrew Card, who said the White House would follow up. "My main goal was to have him look at my son, look him in the eyes and apologize," says Colton. "I wanted him to know, to really understand who he has hurt." She says Bush was "attentive, though not in a fake way," and sometimes at a loss for words. "He didn't try to overcompensate," she says.

The most telling—and moving—picture of Bush grieving with the families of the dead was provided by Rachel Ascione, who met with him last summer. Her older brother, Ron Payne, was a Marine who had been killed in Afghanistan only a few weeks before Ascione was invited to meet with Bush at MacDill Air Force Base, near Tampa, Fla.

Ascione wasn't sure she could restrain herself with the president. She was feeling "raw." "I wanted him to look me in the eye and tell me why my brother was never coming back, and I wanted him to know it was his fault that my heart was broken," she recalls. The president was coming to Florida, a key swing state, in the middle of his re-election campaign. Ascione was worried that her family would be "exploited" by a "phony effort to make good with people in order to get votes."


Ascione and her family were gathered with 18 other families in a large room on the air base. The president entered with some Secret Service agents, a military entourage and a White House photographer. "I'm here for you, and I will take as much time as you need," Bush said. He began moving from family to family. Ascione watched as mothers confronted him: "How could you let this happen? Why is my son gone?" one asked. Ascione couldn't hear his answer, but soon "she began to sob, and he began crying, too. And then he just hugged her tight, and they cried together for what seemed like forever."

Ascione's family was one of the last Bush approached. Ascione still planned to confront him, but Bush disarmed her in an almost uncanny way. Ascione is just over five feet; her late brother was 6 feet 7. "My whole life, he used to put his hand on the top of my head and just hold it there, and it drove me crazy," she says. When Bush saw that she was crying, he leaned over and put his hand on the top of her head and drew her to him. "It was just like my brother used to do," she says, beginning to cry at the memory.

Before Bush left the meeting, he paused in the middle of the room and said to the families, "I will never feel the same level of pain and loss you do. I didn't lose anyone close to me, a member of my family or someone that I love. But I want you to know that I didn't go into this lightly. This was a decision that I struggle with every day."

As he spoke, Ascione could see the grief rising through the president's body. His shoulder slumped and his face turned ashen. He began to cry and his voice choked. He paused, tried to regain his composure and looked around the room. "I am sorry, I'm so sorry," he said.


from newsweek. let the flamewar begin

[url=http://imageshack.us:b09da][img]http://img344.imageshack.us/img344/9436/050814showofgriefx4an.gif[/img][/url:b09da]

oh and her husband just filed for divorce .. guess hes tired of whiny her ass also

I'm glad Bush was able to get over the death of this womans son.

Edit: NVM It's not the entire segment from the Show.

this "woman's" son joined the military so he knew the risks of going to war , if he didnt want to go back for his 2nd tour he could have done what some of the other traitors did and moved to canada. everyday she is camped outside that ranch she shits on her sons legacy , i hope shes proud annoy:

You certainly are ignorant. People can do a lot of talking but never seem to act upon it. You stick your ass on the line if you think it is important. You have noticed that Bush hasn't officially responed to her right? Much like when you prove a teacher wrong in class they just like to play it off. Bush is still waiting for his secretaries to come up a good excuse, because he apparently can't give her one that won't be the scary truth.

You know what really shits on soldiers legacy...

[img]http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/images/1030-02.jpg[/img]

"Bring em on!"

[quote:eadea]You said republicans say she is politicizing her son’s death. Did you forget about the conversation in which BUSH had a Couple whose son was killed and that they were still behind him and that his death would not be for nothing isn’t that politicizing?

Or the Iraqi woman they flew all the way over here to show how she was on Bush and Co. side? Isn’t that politicizing?

And… I'd bet you ANY amount of money had this woman (meaning Cindy) came to Crawford to show her support of Bush and the war you can bet anything he'd have had her trot around the ranch and on every TV conference he did in FACT he'd have called a special press conference to show her off. You should remind everyone who he did the about at the republican convention and used it for personal gain. Now that’s pathetic!
[/quote:eadea]

It's amazing how heartless you Republicans are, you destroy war veterans (McCain, Max Cleland, John Kerry) and now a war mother who lost her son is now the new fodder for Republican attack machines.

the truth about cindy sheehan

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_70879.asp

Cindy Sheehan's Crowd

http://www.nysun.com/article/18436

Cindy Sheehan "changed her story on Bush"? Tracking a lie through the conservative media

http://mediamatters.org/items/200508100009

heres a lil quote for ya

The Reporter article described a meeting that Sheehan and 16 other families of soldiers killed in Iraq had with Bush in Fort Lewis, Washington, earlier that month. Sheehan's son, Army Spc. Casey Sheehan, was killed in Iraq in April 2004.

Drudge quoted Sheehan seemingly speaking glowingly of Bush: "'I now know [Bush is] sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis,' Cindy said after their meeting. 'I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he's a man of faith,' " and, "For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again. 'That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together,' Cindy said." Drudge contrasted these quotes to Sheehan's statements on the August 7 edition of CNN's Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer, in which she said, of the 2004 meeting with Bush: "We wanted to use the time for him to know that he killed an indispensable part of our family and humanity."

rolleyes:

Quit thinking everything your president does is right...a position of power doens't mean they are above the rest of the country in the sense of right and wrong. It is like playing God, but choosing a moronic redneck as your God.

It's amazing how heartless you Republicans are, you destroy war veterans (McCain, Max Cleland, John Kerry) and now a war mother who lost her son is now the new fodder for Republican attack machines.[/quote:5f861]

john kerry is traitor end of story

First off the NY Sun article is total crap. ITS AN EDITORIAL AKA AN OPINION. Since when have feminist groups been viewed as crazy? Oh, thats right, by the people that feel woman SHOULD be supressed.

Secondly, so what if she is a peace loving woman? This just proves more the questioning of Bush's motives. It was her son's choice to fight, she is not asking why did he go fight. She is asking "What was the reason behind him fighting in the first place".

Finally the quote you used is misquoted by the writer. The first quote is saying she felt relief after knowing what happend. Kind of like when a child is kidnap and presumed dead, but never found the body. Then the family gets the news and is relieved and thanks all for their effort. The second quote has nothign much to do with the first. She said she wanted to use the oppurtunity, but did not.

dude wake up...both sides do it...its called politics and this "war mother" you are feeling so sorry for is being trumped by the media as someone who represents the sentiments held by the majority of parents who have kids in the military. she doesn't. she has taken this time and spotlight to use her face to be the symbol of evil Mr. Bush...

regardless of whether the war is right or wrong...we are there and its stuff like this that does nothing but lower the morale of the men and women who are laying in the sand not thinking one iota of politics because there are bullets going over their heads. the bottom line is...her son joined the military...wasn't drafted. i could give two shits about this radical leftist disguised as a grieving mother who only wants to make the US out to be the evil ones and not the terrorists who killed her son.

agreed

I don't think the fact that you're there should outright say it is ok if it was wrong. honestly...if i was American my morale would go up if i finally thought the government started having common sense and were regretted people lives at risk for no reason...kinda makes me feel more happyfor the future of politics in my country. Im sure she doens't think terrorists are now good...she is just saying America isn't perfect and conservatives shouldn't always think they're fucking perfect. The point I think is her son shouldn't of been fighting those "terrorists" well they sure don't seem like terrorists to America...maybe to their surrounding countries...but I ahven't seen em try to kill people in America yet...Iraqis that is.

This flip flopping accusation is completely false. I wouldn't be disrespectful to a president while other families were around greeving. If you just so happen to say something while the camera's were on, does it make it the truth? How many of you change your mood throughout the day? Week? Month? People don't put into consideration a lot of things have been runnign through this ladies mind.

so you are saying you wouldnt voice your frustation while other people were around ?

I'm saying that the only thing the American people are seeing is what is recorded on video tape. Not what she is thinking or saying at home.

well if she is saying something different at home then she is a hyprocite

Changing your mind isn't being a hypocrite. Its when people don't change there mind when having realizations is when you should be called a hypocrite.

I don't know if anyone has ever died in your family but when someone is lossed, you begin to question things. You can't keep a stable mind set when something such as your son is killed. I can sympathize with this woman.

I really tire of this forum, ktog, buttocks, stammer...... no matter what you say they will continue to play the broken record...You could post 35 times the amount of evidence and proof and still they will not beleive you or change their minds one bit.....It will always be the same......To think MIcheal Moore some hoe got involved out of nowhere is this thread... This ladys son DIED AFTER FERENHEIT 9/11...who the hell brought that up anyways..

this ladies own relatives dont think what she is doing is right , if you family doesnt agree with your methods , dont you think you should change your tactics.

Nope. Fight for what you believe and be true to yourself. You should take what they say into consideration, but don't take it as fact just because they are your relative.

Fuck her family, it's her son.

not only her son , but their brother and grandson . this lady is shitting on her son's legacy , i hope shes proud

I don't think its how she looks at it. She just is looking for a reason for why he died. "Defending freedom" and "Bringing an end to tyrrany" ... you can't say that is a reason to die. A good explanation could be "Fighting for those that can't", but that wasn't what Bush said to congress the day they declared war. Everyone over there is fighting over a lie. They might have a reason now to fight, but it began over a lie.

How is this lady protesting in honor of her son’s memory "shitting on his legacy"? I still don't see why. I think it's shitting on his memory and the memory of others when Bush doesn't go to a single funeral or says he will go on with his life, or he stands on the deck of an aircraft carrier with a giant sign that says 'Mission Accomplished'. The funniest part about is Neo-Cons link this woman to Michael Moore and Move-On like she is guilty by association.

The woman had every right to change her mind or pretend or whatever; it doesn't change the fact that her son is dead and gone in one of the most un-popular wars in American history. Everyone bashing this woman 'shits' on her young son’s legacy. This woman raised him an honor student, Cub Scout, marine so obviously she isn't crazy if he was such a good kid.

he made the choice to join the army , it wasnt like he was drafted , nobody pointed a gun to his head and made him re-inlist. he was on his 2nd tour, do you even know the story behind how he died ?

So your saying he had it comming?

and he died a hero. she has every right to say what she wants, and everyone else has the right to disagree with her if they so choose...thats America. just because a war is unpopular doesnt mean it wasn't any less right to start. funny how she isnt just talking anymore about the war that killed her son..but also Israel getting out of Palestine, and not paying taxes blah blah...

the media focuses only on this one little protest outside of the ranch in crawford...what about all the good stories coming out of iraq? millions of people freed from a cruel dictator...what about that? schools opening, hospitals opening, a stable economy, a nation being able to determine its own constituion. you want media bias? there it is. soldiers coming home with very different stories than what we are force fed thanks to ap/cnn/nyt

you liberals will never get it, America isn't evil...we didnt start the war for imperial purposes nor for oil (the price at the pump shows me that)...there are bad people in this world and while you are getting your petitions signed to have guantanamo bay closed and having our president impeached...they are still making bombs ala mcguyver to kill anyone who stands for liberty and freedom...thats not what they want, they've ruled by the sword for alot of years...that changing anytime soon?

i too tire of these forums...being labeled neocon, right wing conservative etc etc...doesnt change the fact that the world is what it is and the liberal answer to turn the other cheek and capitulate only brings more hijackings and bombings by folks who could care less about the things we take for granted....

no matter how much evidence is put on the table about the choice to go into iraq, the ignoring of UN resolutions, the harboring of terrorists, the use of chemical weapons against the Kurds...still, all you guys can chant is "bush lied"

had Gore been elected he still would have had to take into account that everyone from Clinton to Kennedy to John Kerry and even himself had been talking about the need to keep Saddam in check and the need for military action against him, would the chants had been "Gore lied"? I doubt it...you liberals here need to get over yourselves when you think your "enlighted" way of thinking is so far ahead of the evil bush administration and those of us who support it, its only because a conservative gov't is in power and that just drives you nuts

no im not saying he had it coming , he voluntered to go on a rescuse mission to help some fellow soldiers that had been ambushed. learn the facts before you accuse me of saying things i didnt say.

she's also camping on private property. eek: