Immigration Protests
 

What do you think about the immigration protests? Today kids left school to protest. Should we reform immigration laws to make it harder for them to stay in the country, or should we make it easier like Bush wants.

BTW, this is an issue in which I completely disagree with Bush, I think we need to make it harder for illegal immigrants to stay here.

I don't see how immigrants are so crucial to our economy, can anyone explain it to me?

[quote:def39]I don't see how immigrants are so crucial to our economy, can anyone explain it to me?[/quote:def39]

they do the work others won't do. 'Others' would demand more money. thus the employers would be forced to dish out more cash to satisfy the needs of these people. With imigrants, employers ride them for all that they're worth and not a penny more..

I'll admit I know very little about this whole ordeal. I know congress wants to build a wall on the border of mexico..I do believe that immigrants have rights and illegal immigrants serve as a lower form of labor that is obviously exploited.

ok, but if we didn't allow those people (the illegal immigrants) to live in the country, then the current unemployed Americans could take the jobs...(and if the jobs don't pay enough, they would be forced to pay more because otherwise they wouldn't have any labor)

Well I'm not sure every American is willing to do some odd jobs..current american teens set their eyes on a bigger future rather than working some shitty two bit job that gets them the bare minimum wage or even less.

And since out sourcing to india and other developing countries is widespread many industries are washing up which leads kids to believe that the only job they can get now is one with a post high school degree..that's how its here in Canada atleast.

but even so, America has people who live below the poverty line, people who are extremely poor, wouldn't they want the jobs that illegals have been doing? ANd because they are americans, they wouldn't be subject to as much exploitation.

i was reading about it in our school paper today. I read that the bill calls for building a fence on the US/Mexican boarder. It also allows immigrants to stay in the country if they get custodial, dishwashing, construction, and other jobs...but they would have to stay in line behind other immigrants to recieve their citizenship fairly. Another part of it said that living illegally in the US could be treated as a felony and they could be deported.

I'll see if i can find a copy later. Iliked it because it was short and to the point.

there are parts of Bush's idea I like. It gives them a chance to stay legally. I have NO PROBLEM with legals working. If it wasnt for that I wouldnd be here. This country is the melting pot. I am TOTALLY AGAINST illegals. If they are here now and want to come clean I think its OK to let them do so. I like the idea of staying employeed for 5 years and keep a clean crimiinal record. If you can do that then become a citizen, if not SEE YA!!

We are in such a spot with this we need to start somewhere. Offering those that want to stay a legal way of doing so is fine with me. It would be impossible to get all of them out and start fresh. Give them a chance, if they dont take it or reneig on it ship them out.

This problem is decades in the making so it will take a while to fix it

I read somewhere that illegals can sign up for the military..is this false? eek:

anybody know the importation/exportation ratio? I heard 3000 come in daily... how many are leaving daily?

"illegal immigrants", that should answer everyones question

pour some money into mexico so they dont suck as much

http://asshelmets.com/index.php?action= ... t=0#theEnd

I do not agree as calling this as a view on how all immigrating Muslims are, but it seems to be a decently sized problem in Europe, also I have noticed the Nationalists have come to big time qaurrels with the Muslim gangs and such as well. The thread ends up linking to a racist site as wel which I have no comment on.

Photos from the protest:
http://www.mexica-movement.org/granmarcha.htm

Captions are from the immigrant side.

I suppose they have some point, however I don't agree necessarialy agree with them.

Don't want them here, close the borders.

I'm also hearing this is more of a racial thing than an immigration thing, however I can't be certain of that.

I think calling this a racial thing is ridiculous. Sure, there may be some racists that don't want Mexicans in our country, but I think the vast majority of the people behind the efforts to close the borders want to do so because it drains our economic system.

Also, I saw today that mexican high schoolers had put a Mexican flag on top of the American flag (they turned the American flag upside down) and anyone who knows about flag etiquette knows that the American flag is supposed to fly higher than any others displayed. What I don't understand is if these illegal immigrants have so much pride for their country, and think America is such a bad place for treating them the way they are, why are they here? If they have so much pride in Mexico, enough to insult America by disgracing it's symbol, why don't they go back home?

did you look at any of the photos in the link I posted? Their argument is those southern states are their homes.


Mexican perspective:
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/15 ... me=default

again, i'm not siding with them here.

I don't want illegals in my country, and if I were american, I wouldn't want them there either.

its a protest, people do that to flags when protesting. they are proud of their heritage (hence the mexican flags) while protesting the US govt (upside down flags). whats the problem?

We're talking about people who were born in Mexico, the moved here illegally, how are they entitled to American land if they weren't even born there?

Because it wasn't always america's land. the british french spanish dutch etc came to this continent and basically took it over. their argument is part of the land that is today called america was once theirs because they are the indiginous people of the land.

I do not agree with the students actually waving the Mexican flag and turning the USA flag upside down. That is plain stupidity on their part. I am the son of immigrant parents. I was lucky enough to have been born in the USA. I know why these people protest and want immigration reform. If you look at the Los Angeles protest where 500,000 people marched, the majority of them waved American flags. Now these dumb students, most of them don't know squat on why they are even protesting. The only reason they do it is to cut class. Others just want to portray themselves as rebels by waving the Mexican flag so they are seemed as being supportive of immigration reform. Pay no attention to these idiots. If undocumented immigrants want reform to favor them, they need to show that they love this country, they want to assimilate, and follow the law. The ones I know fully love this country and the opportunity it gives them. I understand why some people don't care about what they say and just want them deported as they gained entry into this country illegally. Try to look at the situation through their eyes. Coming from a shitty country like Mexico, I would know my parents are Mexican, my mother likes going there at least every year mostly because our family is there. Besides that, I could care less about the Mexican government. It's filled with corruption and crime and thus I avoid it. Only reason I would go is again because family is over there and my heritage. Its not feasible to try and deport 12 to 20 million people and send them back to a country they haven't been in for years. An example would be a good friend of mine. This friend went to high school with me. He graduated, works, and is still going to community college. Now this poor bastard has to work his ass off to work here and go to school here. He was not as lucky as I was; he was brought here illegally by his parents when he was 7 years old. He is as American as anyone born here. He has never been to his home country since he has been here. He doesn't remember it. Contrary to popular myth and stereotypical thought, he does not leech off the system. He is not on welfare, has no type of medical insurance, or gets financial aid to go to college. He works because he has a false social security. He gets paid with a check. He pays taxes, and contributes to the social security fund even though he will never get a dime of it. My point is if tough immigration reform is passed, it is not fair to people like my friend. It was not his fault that he came here illegally and now lives here, is assimilated, all around American. He knows no other home but the United States. There has to be a reasonable resolution to this problem. Protect the border however you want. The best solution is already on the tables with the McCain and Kennedy bill.

ok, we dont give indians their land either, besides Ill bet most of the illegal immigrants probably dont have ancestral lineage that traces back to US land.

and mad, does it make sense to be so proud of their heritage when they completely up and left that country because it sucked so bad? no, it doesnt make sense to put more pride in your heritage from a country that you left becuase it sucked than the country you currently live in that gives you so many more opportunities.

not everyone in the parade was an 'illegal' immigrant, alot of the kids over here ditched school to protest. they were born here and are citizens. they are protesting to keep their parents and grandparents here. they are excercising their rights to free speech, what are you guys doing? you guys are just sitting here moaning on an internet board. if you dont want them here, organize your own protest or something.

yeah, it's pretty obvious that they are protesting, thanks for pointing it out though. what I'm saying is the flag thing was just stupid. And you're right, they WERE born here, so why do they disrespect his country and put Mexico over it? wouldn't that imply they prefer Mexico to the United States? or at least that they have more pride for Mexico than the US? As you pointed out, they are americans, so why are they placing their prideful like a mexican citizen?

cause people who have a strong sense of pride in their heritage consider their home country just as important as the old country. putting the flag upside down is a symbol of protest, thats it. you cant go to any concert, protest or whatever w/o seeing the brazilian or jamaican flag for some reason. people in NY have irish and italian flags and display both when they march in St patricks day parades and stuff like that. its just a matter of opinion. i dont see it as disrespecting the country, just angry at the govt.

it is disrespectful, the flag is a venerated object, their are protocols for displaying it that if not followed, constitute disrespect. Whether or not that is silly doesn't matter, that's the way it is, and that's what it represents.

Flags upside down means a country in distress..whats wrong with doing that?

the way they did the flag business was disrespectful, that's my main point, along with their other actions, it just seemed what they did was ironic, that's all.

You believe deportation will end the problem though?

I never said that.

It was a question I was posing to you.

ok, no, I don't. I think we need to be stricter on the borders so not as many illegals can come in though.

It's not disrespectful - YOU think it's disrespectful - and I'd say you were probably in a minority...

If I saw people protesting against my government, I wouldn't take offense to them turning the flag upside down - I'd think, 'Hey, at least they have enough respect to not set the flag on fire or walk all over it.'

I see absolutely nothing wrong with that....It's a non-violent, non-offensive way of making a visual protest against a countires government.

I think you just have a problem with people criticising your country in any manner...I call that TOO much pride...
It's good to be proud of your nation, but when you support it to the degree that it makes you angry and pissed off at people who turn THE FLAG upside down, I'd say you need to rethink your patriotism.

no, you, being a foreigner, are unaware of the rules of flag etiquette that apply to the American flag. It is disrespectful. If you don't beleive me about the flag etiquette, look it up, it's kind of a big deal, not so much as it used to be, but many people still know at least some of the general rules regarding the treatment of the American flag. One of the primary rules is that the US flag should be higher than other flags flying on the same post or building. That's because it's supposed to be regarded as the highest, and with the most respect. Therefore, putting the Mexican flag above the US flag is disrespecting it. And yes, I am patriotic, but I'm not overly patriotic, I don't care if people criticize the country, but the way they did it was just stupid, illogical, and ironic to me, I don't care about the fact that they did it, it's just that they made fun of the country that harbored them after they fled their own country because of it's poor living conditions, it's just stupid, that's all, it was ironic and humouros on their part.

[url=http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html:b1036]US Flag rules[/url:b1036]

[url=http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/etiquette/2_e.cfm:b1036]Canada has similar flag rules[/url:b1036]

i would say that expecting protesters to abide by flag rules is overly patriotic

2 machine gun nests and a moat full of aligators. problem solved

You must be a US Citizen to join the military...

We came to the USA legally, well kind of. Back in those days when the Soviet Union was still in existance, we got a guest pass to the USA...Like a student visa, a temporary thing for about a year. During that year, we stayed with relatives and got our documents and I became a resident alien...I had to live in USA for 10 years to get my citizenship, which I did in 2004.

My view on this? Play in the green card lotto and hope to God you get a green card.

Also, I fucking hate how people who have never been to america bash it...

you have to be a citizen to be an officer, not to enlist. local news did a story on a kid who was KIA in iraq. they gave him citizenship postumously (sp?) and to his wife and family for his service.

I lived in Georgia for a short while. And why is it wrong for anyone to criticize anothers country? rolleyes:

Mexico is going to invade the US from the inside! cuss:

Nyck, I agree. We'll have a meeting and we will send our ideas to the president.

LOL @ bold.