Canada charges 17 in plot to blow up buildings
 

[quote:286ca]TORONTO - A group of Canadian residents arrested in coordinated raids across the Toronto area for “terrorism-related offenses” had planned to blow up targets around southern Ontario, Canadian police said on Saturday.[/quote:286ca] ed:
it just isn't in the good ol' u s of a.

edit: sorry, forgot the link: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10663276/

Good friends of mine. eek:

I havent heard of this yet, any links?

Im too busy worrying about indians than terrorists [url:ac7a2]http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060523/blockade_dispute_060523/20060523?hub=Canada[/url:ac7a2]

my power was out for 2 fucking days cause of those fags mwah:

it's all over the news eek:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/ ... index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198050,00.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006 ... ects_x.htm

edit: Sorry jibber, I totally forgot to put the link in my first post! wallbash: loney:

Good for us, we stopped them.

thats some crazy shit ed:

after watching them for years.

k?

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Conten ... 8793972154

[quote:a49df]
A Comment on the Terrorism in Toronto
Contributed by: The Old Poop
And so it begins...

The arrests last night in Toronto of several people involved in a terrorist bombing plot seem right on schedule, following as they do a few days after a news release by CSIS that we are breeding "home grown terrorists" in Canada.

There may have actually been a plot by some people to bomb something, but that doesn't concern me as much as what is going to follow from this all too convenient terrorist plot. We can soon expect to hear about the introduction of legislation designed to "protect us" from these nasty terrorists. Without a doubt the upcoming laws will remove even more of our civil liberties, intrude even more deeply into our privacy and place stricter limits on dissent.

In predicting our government's response to this incident, it seems the only way to save us from "terrorism" will be to become a fascist state. I can't speak for all Canadians, but I'd rather take my chances with terrorists than have "Big Brother" looking over our shoulders to make sure we're "good little citizens."

If anyone doubts that were already a surveillance society, I need only point out that the people arrested were probably under surveillance for some time. If they are homegrown terrorists, then I'll bet dollars to doughnuts they had their right to privacy violated long before there was any probable cause. I find that MUCH scarier than the bombs they allegedly had.

We are being led into a fascist state. Day by day, year by year, our freedoms will be taken from us if we allow it, and we have been allowing it thus far. This trend has to stop and it has to stop NOW. The alternative is that our children will grow up to live under a regime every bit as repressive as Hitler's Germany, or Stalin's USSR.

It would be far better to kick out any government that tries to involve Canada as a partner in the USA's current Imperial Crusade. Face it, "the terrorists" are mostly people who are sick of the US sticking its nose where it doesn't belong and terrorizing people all over the planet. Some of them are fighting back. In much of the world they are freedom fighters. Here in the West we call them terrorists because it's much easier to demonize an enemy with a nasty name.

How many of us asked our government to get involved in the coup in Haiti, or combat in Afghanistan? Ask yourself; ask your neighbor; take a poll. Chances are pretty good nobody did. So why did we invade Haiti in 2004? Why did we put our troops in a combat role in Afghanistan? If we were truly bringing them a better way of life then there would be no cause for them to hate us or to want to bomb us. That many of them do hate us should tell us we are doing something terribly wrong. That many might be our own citizens should tell us how desperate the situation of their relatives in the other country must be to arouse such fanatical sympathy. Do they "hate freedom"? Quite the opposite I'd say. They hate oppression, and so should we.

If we truly want to end terrorism in Canada, we should divorce Canada from any participation in The US wars of aggression. Indeed we should be standing against such wars. We should be championing liberty by having it. I would much rather see us do that as a means of ending terrorism in Canada than see us turn into an Orwellian police state.

Just how much are we willing to pay for "safety"? I contend that we've paid far too much already.
[/quote:a49df]

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/ ... 3030733463

[quote="the appropriately named Old Poop":bb775]If anyone doubts that were already a surveillance society, I need only point out that the people arrested were probably under surveillance for some time. If they are homegrown terrorists, then I'll bet dollars to doughnuts they had their right to privacy violated long before there was any probable cause. I find that MUCH scarier than the bombs they allegedly had.[/quote:bb775]
ohh puhleese.. rolleyes:

[quote="Eight Ace":9d0d3][quote="the appropriately named Old Poop":9d0d3]If anyone doubts that were already a surveillance society, I need only point out that the people arrested were probably under surveillance for some time. If they are homegrown terrorists, then I'll bet dollars to doughnuts they had their right to privacy violated long before there was any probable cause. I find that MUCH scarier than the bombs they allegedly had.[/quote:9d0d3]
ohh puhleese.. rolleyes:[/quote:9d0d3]the only scarey thing from this terrorist bust is there lawyers

i hope our government doesnt go easy on these guys, hell, lets ship them to that camp you americans have in cuba

[quote="the appropriately named Old Poop":394b3]In much of the world they are freedom fighters.

Here in the West we call them terrorists because it's much easier to demonize an enemy with a nasty name.[/quote:394b3]
actually I'm now siding with ninty, machette and old poop cool:

.... if we in teh west have resorted 2 nasty name-calling then I myself will behead plus benut Bush! cuss:







"I really thought there was a good chance we wouldn't get hit, that nobody would care enough to come after us,"
said a former member of parliament, David McCombe. "But when people from within start attacking, people
that went to our schools and should share our values, then I suppose no one is immune."

[url=http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/canadians-say-they-have-foiled-bomb-attacks/2006/06/04/1149359612984.html:394b3]article[/url:394b3]

It's hard for me to buy into this situation for a number of reasons.

First of all we have the cry wolf situation. TV, papers, movies, politicians etc: Terrorism! Terrorism! Terrorism!

2) More specifically, these terrorists were set up. The police sold the materials to them leading me to believe they were more or less encouraged to do what they did.

3) Items shown by the police were also set up. There was a bag of fertilizer as a piece of evidence, the problem being that the fertilizer was not from the terrorists. It was put there to show to the media by the police however, they failed to inform anyone that what they were seeing was not actually from the terrorists. This is an elaborate PR stunt. Those images are placed in people’s heads, and they think "holy shit".

4) The police also said that the internet was a vital part in capturing the suspects. This paves the way for increased monitoring and regulation of the internet. And if you don't think governments or companies would want to monitor the internet, you might want to think again.

The most disturbing thing I saw was when I was browsing http://www.calgarysun.com

On the front page of the paper it says "Be on Guard" in huge type further increasing the propaganda.

And obviously it worked because if you look at the poll on the page:

Would you be willing to give up some of your civil liberties in the interest of fighting terrorism in Canada?

Yes 54%
No 46%

We also see the result of this. Mosques in Toronto being vandalized and middle eastern people being abused verbally. People become suspicious of each other and are encouraged to guard against terrorism in their daily lives.

I see this as a convenient ploy to guild the voting public to secure Mr. Harpers majority. It's the same technique used by Bush, Howard and Blair. It's nothing new. There will be an election in Canada soon, as Harper has already stated, and he wants the citizens of this country to ask him to protect them from all the bad things out there. And it will work.

Fucking "Sun" papers. But it's more than likely that canadians are willingly bending down to give up civil liberties. gg. Also its calgary, 95% of the province are conservatives.

why is that such a big deal when the police coerced the 'terrorists'? You won't like me saying it, but jsut look at the pedophiles and that dateline special...setup by police to sting them. They provided the bait.

[quote:f7c23]Several of the suspects attended the same mosque in a Toronto suburb where a local parliamentarian had complained in the past about the radical views held by some worshippers.[/quote:f7c23]This may not be hard evidence, but why does this seem somewhat important to me?

I'm just happy that this was all stopped before anyone/thing was seriously injured or killed.

I mean some of the items shown in the press conference were not the actual items purchased by the terrorists. This is misleading to those watching the press conference because they automatically assume those items being shown were actually in posession by those being held.

but did they purchase them and they just didn't get their hands on their purchased item before the sting? Or did they have nothing to do with the suspects?

so once again it's not the plotters that are at fault...it's the press and the gullible public, ffs. rolleyes:

Hooray for catching terrorists and saving lives!

[quote="Eight Ace":b498a]so once again it's not the plotters that are at fault...it's the press and the gullible public, ffs. rolleyes:[/quote:b498a]As usual you didn't understand what I said and totally misinterpreted what I had to say which is a given around here. rolleyes: rolleyes: If you didn't notice my entire post was towards the poll. Better re-read it, if you can..Calgary is known for its conservatism. Will any of my post be understood properly or do I just not understand the conservative mindset? I didn't say jack shit about the plotters.

Has anybody seen Pyro lately? eek:

no, you never do, do you?

everyone except those caught red-handed is to blame according to your view.

Eight ace are you putting words in my mouth, again? I made no apparent comment within this thread about the plotters and nor do I intend to since all it does is make everyone hot headed. You went crazy over my first comment which was based not on the plotters rather than civil rights and you jumped all over it, trying to make a invalid point. And what you are saying now is better put towards ninty not me since he made comments along those lines. I'm attempting to stay out of heated debates in this forum.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13150516/

ed: . crazy stuff right there guys. These terroists......the balls.. the gaul... annoy: . If this would've went through, damn, i can't hardly even imagine what would've happened

[quote:0cf6a]So many possibilities . . . for courts
Jun. 5, 2006. 10:32 AM
THOMAS WALKOM
NATIONAL COLUMNIST

Suppose, just suppose, that one or more of the 17 charged yesterday with terrorism is innocent.

This is not the common assumption. I suspect most Canadians assume that Ontario was in great danger from terrorists, that police nipped this danger in the bud and that all of the 12 adults and five young people they arrested are guilty.

All of which may be true. Terrorists do exist. There is the terror we don't think about, committed by nation states under the rubric of security sweeps or targeted reprisals. And there is the terror we do think about, the terrorism of misguided individuals, loons, right-wing militias or Al Qaeda and its Islamist acolytes.

Militant Islamists have committed outrages in the United States, Indonesia, Spain and Britain to counter what they see as the crimes of these countries against Muslims. There is no obvious reason to assume that similar criminals won't try the same thing here.

All of which is to say that the Mounties may be absolutely correct when they say they stopped the 17 from using homemade detonators and three tonnes of fertilizer to blow up as yet unspecified targets in southern Ontario.

There may indeed have been a terrorist conspiracy that involved what the RCMP assistant commissioner Mike McDonell yesterday referred to as "training areas," where militants tramped about in big boots, cooked on outdoor barbecues, built bombs and used a wooden door for target practice.

That's the implication from the evidence shown to reporters yesterday: five pairs of boots in camouflage drab, six flashlights, one set of walkie-talkies, one voltmeter, one knife, eight D-cell batteries, a cellphone, a circuit board, a computer hard drive, one barbecue grill, one set of tongs suitable for turning hot dogs, a wooden door with 21 marks on it and a 9-mm handgun.

Or it is possible that the only thing that these bits of evidence prove is that a group of young men went somewhere where they tramped around in big boots, cooked on barbecues, played soldier and generally acted like jerks — which young men are occasionally wont to do.

The three tonnes of ammonium nitrate allegedly purchased was, as McDonell said, three times the amount used in the Oklahoma terror bombing of 1995.

But, as he also said, farmers routinely buy three tonnes of ammonium nitrate "every day." They use it for fertilizer, not bombs.

In short, we don't know much yet about what these men and boys were trying to do. We don't know if this series of arrests, called Operation O-Sage by the Mounties, pre-empted the kind of actions that in the United Kingdom led to last year's bombing of the London subway by otherwise unremarkable young Britons.

That's one possibility. It's certainly the explanation favoured by Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who yesterday praised the police.

Another is that this is a reprise of the infamous 2003 Project Thread fiasco, in which RCMP and immigration officials accused 23 Muslims of terrorism only to acknowledge later that at most the men were guilty of minor immigration fraud.

Still another possibility is that this may turn out to be Canada's version of the 2004 Virginia "paintball" trial, in which one man was sentenced to life and another got 85 years.

In that controversial case (even the presiding judge complained the outcome was unfair), nine Muslim men were convicted of participating in terrorist training — the main evidence being that they had played paintball in the woods outside Washington.

What we do know about Operation O-Sage is that the RCMP, as well as the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, have been tracking the suspects since 2004. We also know that at least some of their neighbours knew police were watching them. Presumably, some of the suspects did, too.

If the alleged conspirators knew they were under surveillance, it seems odd that they continued along merrily with plans to make explosives.

But perhaps they are not bright terrorists. Or perhaps they are not terrorists at all.

With luck, we will get these answers at trial. This time at least, Canada has chosen to deal with alleged terrorists in the proper way, by charging them with criminal offences and allowing the case to come to court — in Canada.

For too long, the government's preferred option was to let others handle our problems. In 2002, CSIS agents escorted alleged Canadian terrorist Mohamed Mansour Jabarah across the border so he could be arrested by the FBI and convicted in a secret trial. Later that year, the RCMP co-operated with the Americans to have them arrest Canadian suspect Maher Arar in New York (he was later transferred to Syria to be tortured).

Five other alleged terrorists are simply being detained without charge under Canada's very elastic immigration act until they can be deported.

So, in this context, the 2004 decision to charge Canadian Mohammad Momin Khawaja for terrorism and yesterday's unrelated decision to charge the 17 are welcome. At least the accused aren't being sent to Syria.

During the next few days, much will be written and broadcast on the 17. Their lives will be re-examined through the prism of the arrests as reporters try to retrace the steps that allegedly led them to violent jihad. Unnamed security sources will leak details designed to bolster the police case. Families and friends will proclaim the innocence of those charged.

Take it all with a grain of salt. We know that police arrested people. We know they seized some materials — all legal — that can be used to make explosives. So far, we don't know much else.[/quote:0cf6a]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Conten ... rorArrests

Im going to have to agree with Machette on this. Why would anyone give up their own personal liberties so their government can "weed out" terrorists. If a government is as powerful as it claims to be, it shouldn't have to monitor everyone and do the guess and check method.

now, i dont know about the rest of you, but i was born not a US citizen, I had to earn my citizenship the hard way. I am not willing to give up my constitutionally guaranteed rights just for the sake of "homeland security".

so if these people had gone ahead with their plan as similar people have done in Indonesia, Spain, England etc.
and blown up parliament, beheaded the pm etc. you would be cool with that, and you would be happy with a
"guess and check method" even in the face of further attacks, ok fine.

Goverments should hold referendums and simply ask people "if we just allow terrorist plotters to carry out their
attacks whenever they like, does eveyone promise not to complain afterwards that not enough was done...yes or no"

would that be ok?

ahh, that explains it...I foolishly thought these guys were a bunch of
city slickers, I didn't realise they were farmers, problem solved! beer:

[quote="Eight Ace":7dbe4]so if these people had gone ahead with their plan as similar people have done in Indonesia, Spain, England etc.
and blown up parliament, beheaded the pm etc. you would be cool with that, and you would be happy with a
"guess and check method" even in the face of further attacks, ok fine.

Goverments should hold referendums and simply ask people "if we just allow terrorist plotters to carry out their
attacks whenever they like, does eveyone promise not to complain afterwards that not enough was done...yes or no"

would that be ok?[/quote:7dbe4]

no no, you misunderstood. I ment that they shouldn't monitor everyone, and shouldn't use the guess and check method. If they are as powerful and have as much "intelligence" as they clame to have, then they shouldnt have to guess.

how then would you like to see all this intelligence gathered?, without
anyone "giving up their own personal liberties" in any way I mean.

[quote="Eight Ace":cde68]how then would you like to see all this intelligence gathered?, without
anyone "giving up their own personal liberties" in any way I mean.[/quote:cde68]

good point, it is a catch 22. Unless they go back to either using snitches or relying on piecing the clues together.

yes, or just ask suspects if they are planning a violent act on the community

..then if they say yes.... you know you're closing in. cool: oOo: freak: eek: