2nd Amendment....opinions?
 

Ok, this is geared more towards people LIVING in the US, but you "outsiders" are welcome to join in.

How do you feel about the 2nd Amendment? Is it an "individual right" or a "Collective right" to bear arms?

I feel as if the founding fathers meant it as an "Individual right" to bear arms. This is a touchy subject to "anti gunners" as well as "pro-gunners". Washington DC took it upon themselves to out right ban all guns back in 1976 due to the high murder rate. They thought by banning guns, they would cure their crime rate. Well, it may work in theory but, out of all the crimes committed with "firearms", what is the percentage committed by "law abiding" citizens? Meaning, those who "legally" purchased their firearms? I'm betting it's less than 2%.
Anyway, back to DC......they STILL have the highest murder rate in the entire fucking country!! Why?....well, simply because, only the fucking criminals have guns!!!

I'm thinking, if you give citizens their rights back, the murder rate will drop across the country. At least a potential victim will be able to fight back.

Oh, and for all you Pyros of the world, the guns are already here. We can't simply make them go away. We have well over several million in this country so we have to address that. If we took all the guns away from the law abiding, what's left? Only the criminals and cops would have guns leaving the rest of us "fucked".

Screw that, i want to be able to protect me and what's mine.



/discuss

If I didn't have a gun, the King of England could just walk into my house any time he wants and start shoving me around.

Citizens must have the right to bear arms because what if your government does something so drastic, so deplorable that you must engage in a revolution? The right to bear arms is an individual's right to protect his life, his property, and his family should his government one day decide it is time to become a dictatorship.

i feel that the constitution and other important documents should be read as a minimalistic documents. The founding fathers knew that things would change (whether societal values, technology, etc.), and with this in mind, they made a document that can be kept as a core for the rest of the remaining years of the nation (with amendments being put in there as a safety precaution.) So under their circumstances at the time, they believed the people needed guns to have their revolution. With their personal arms playing such a large role in the revolution against a country with "good intentions", they made sure that fellow man would be able to have the same opportunities as they had. They're not looking to protect the [the nation + the people of the nation]. They're looking to protect people in general in case that nation fails them.

I'm all about individual rights to bear arms due to the historical context and my interpreted intentions of the documents.

i heard that the right to bear arms was originally added because back then americans were against having a 'standing army' and wanted their people to fight for themselves in militias

ironic how now you guys have the biggest standing army in the world nowadays

its a completely obsolete amendment... it was meant for citizens to be able to overthrow a government that was no longer representing them... clearly, in this day, that is totally unreasonable. im not against hunting, its needed, but everything but single shot rifles should be outlawed. getting that to actually work in the US is another story

youre fucking dumb... good luck getting any citizen army with pistols organized to defeat a modern military... maybe 200 years ago... any revolution nowadays would have to involve a military "mutiny", not pockets of fucktards with six shooters and hunting rifles...

i think were second or third, for sure behind china

No you're fucking dumb. There are TONS of state militias in this country. The Texas Constitutional Militia alone stands at 20,000 strong and armed with tanks, APCs, and heavy artillery...and they're only one of over 50 Texas state militias.

Take all of the militias, and factor in the tens of thousands of National Guard and military personnel that would defect to militias, plus possible foreign aid and you've got a pretty tough battle.

Stop living in your pussy college boy world. The 2nd Amendment has a practical purpose. It's not just some law for rednecks to piss off tree hugging hippies like yourself.

A civilian population revolution in the US could overthrow the US government and defeat the US military. They would just overwhelm them with numbers. Looks at what is happening in Iraq or Afghanistan. Do any of those guys have F-16's or ships or artillery? No, they have AK's and a fighting spirit. Personally I don't think it's outdated at all and I think it is a fundamental part of a free nation and a fundamental part of an individual being free.

Taking away guns from law abiding citizens doesn't quell crime. You're only left with the criminals who have guns then and they get free reign. It is a basic right of every person to defend themselves, and if a criminal is running around with a gun, the average citizen should be able to fight back with one as well if the situation arose.

What about the government in 10, 20, 30, years from now?

I am for the right for people to keep/bear arms, unlike most people around my age to who are caught up in the liberal BS. It might be because I'm in one of the most liberal states in the US. It seems everyone my age is terrified of guns, and they somehow think they just decide to go off by themselves.:rolleyes:

I plan to apply for my LTC(License to Carry) in 2 years when I'm 21. I'm also a member of SCCC (Students for Concealed Carry on Campus) and have applied for a Campus Leader position. I'm also planning on joining the NRA, just as soon as I can get the extra cash together.

It might be because I have been raised around Law Enforcement/Military(Father/Grandfather were cops, Uncle was/currently Army) but I have always been around guns. My grandfather always carries his Sig with him, even to family parties and stuff.

I have taken friends of mine to the range who were uneasy about guns prior, but after they said it was fun! :goodjob: I am a Criminal Justice major, and my favorite thing to hear is kids in my class saying how bad guns are....do they not realize that its something they will have to wear on their hip in a few years?!?!

banning guns isnt a solution, its just going to create more crime because you will have to prosecute and arrest people who will continue to seek out and own guns, whether its for crime, protection or whatever. it will make millions of people who refuse to disarm criminals and then you have to put them in jail and spend money, resources and find facilities to house them. i think they still serve a purpose - people have the right to defend themselves.

ban crazy people

i dont own a gun, and i really dont feel the need for one. i can see why people would want to own a gun for recreational purposes like hunting....but other than that, i dont really see the point to owning one. do you really feel that unsafe in your neighborhood that you need to have something that will kill? i dont know, i can see both sides of the argument, maybe one day i'll grow some balls and commit to one side of the argument.

It doesn't really matter if you see a point to it or not. The issue is allowing law abiding citizens to own them for whatever purpose.

human emotion is a powerful thing. we go through so many emotion during the day, now put a gun in front of one of those emotions.

I don't understand your logic. There are millions of personnel (cops, agents, military, hunters, citizens....etc) in this country armed this very second. Are we in danger because one of them may get angry over a rusted paperclip?

"Normal" people know how to deal with the ups and downs of everyday emotions. Only the "unstable people" have trouble coping. Are you one of them?

We starting a commercial here?

My opinion is if the government tries to take away our guns there will be a big uproar. I dont per say live in an area that i need to protect myself from other people, but due to the fact that i live in a very rural area with livestock of sorts having a gun to protect them should the need arise is necessary. Im not one to hunt but i do enjoy the sport of shooting at a target, clay pigeon or a paper target. Would i shoot someone would tried to harm me or my family, without a second thought.

Going to arkans comment about 'unstable people,' he's pretty much nailed the issue on the head, with a few exceptions. Yes its the emotionally unstable people that shouldnt weeld a gun, or those that have know psychiatric problems ie anti-social personality disorder, sociopath. Though anyone, previously labled stable or not can snap under severe circumstances, the people with these disorders are know to snap very easily and these are the disorders you often find people having who are serial murderers, assault-rapists etc. then again thats like labeling a person a criminal even if they have never commited any crime prior. I say the government spend less on the 'drug' war and more on the gun war, taking down black market dealers. at the same time the likelihood is theyd take down drug dealers as well

I can help you understand his logic, just imagine that the person he figuratively puts a gun in front of is one of your 'unstable people.'

the 2nd amendment is the ultimate check against government tyranny

guns are retarded. and the right to own a gun is retarded even though i believe in freedom todo what you want. guns = problems. so if guns are illegal then there will be less guns around to cause such problems even if those bad guys would always be able to obtain them, because most of those weekly school shootings you get out there seem to be legally obtained.

no, those are usually stolen from a parent or friend. they don't sell guns to 16/17 year olds that go for weekly visits with the school psychologist.

ja i know that but those they take from their dad or a friend are all legal and fun and dandy thats what i ment

that's been stated many times in this thread.

Fuck you asshole. Fuck you.

By that same logic we should ban video games and violent music, since many people think video games cause problems. We should also ban alcohol, since many people who drink also drive drunk, and that's dangerous. Let's ban sex too, because far more people die from STDs than homicides with a firearm every year.

We shouldn't have to live in a country where our government feels the need to hold our hands from cradle to grave.

BTW, many school shooting incidents come from weapons that were done on a straw purchase, which is buying it indirectly through 1 or more people and it's illegal. Columbine was a straw purchase.

I'm just say that anything can set us off, even yourself could be that person.
one day you may find your wife cheating on you, or you could lose your job, or that one guy at work that just keeps harassing you, or someone cuts you off in traffic. Your not just a danger to other, your also a danger to yourself.
You can sit there and say that wont be you, but normal people flip out too not just unstable people. It just takes one thing to make you the normal guy to the unstable guy.

i don't think guns have any relevance to this really, if they don't pick up a gun they're going to get a knife, bat, shovel etc.. normal people have been snapping for thousands of years.. it happens

i just don't see what guns have to do with it

No, if i ever get that angry, i'll grab the person by the throat and squeeze the life out of them. Killing with a gun is for pussies.

...and if i lose my job, lady cheats on me, or i get cut off in traffic, that's nothing to lose your lid over. Be a man and suck it up.
Kill my kid however, now you have a problem.

Certainly if more kids had guns in Columbine or Virginia Tech, maybe they could have defended themselves during those fateful and tragic days. We should arm ourselves and our children with firearms for our protection. And im not talking about pussy ass pistols, im talking about huge automatic assault rifles. It may turn into a popularity thing at schools, like who has the bigger or cooler gun, but the positives surely outweigh the negatives. Also a class should be mandatory teaching children better accuracy with those guns if they ever need to use those guns. Vote Republican and God bless.

I agree.

you're so tough.


i don't have an opinion. i would imagine i might feel safer walking through a dangerous neighbourhood with a gun in my pocket; but i would imagine i'd feel pretty uncomfortable if some dude had a gun in his pocket sitting next to me at chuck-y-cheeses. no, it's not that i'm a pussy. i grew up with shotguns and rifles. it's just that the idea of everyone walking around with guns makes me feel uncomfortable. i don't know. no handguns here in canadaland and it's working out quite well.


pointless argument. those kids we're fucked up. they would have found other ways to take out their targets if everyone in class was carrying. making bombs can't be hard.

and you're an idiot

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold made bombs, and they did not detonate Although I see your point about defending yourself against a bomb, it's not the preferred method. Most people are too stupid to make anything, much less a bomb that requires some knowledge of chemistry and mechanics. Gun shootings are far easier, so it's not a pointless argument to say that lives could have been saved. VT killings would have likely been reduced to 3-4 if there had been one person with a CCL in that classroom.

My response was satirical :P, i dont think we should arm our children with firearms.

yeah that was pretty obvious, but your first sentence is used a lot in these types of debates.

yeah i see your point. to me though when these people are fucked up like they are; there's a lot of preporation and planning that goes into what their plans. learning how to make a bomb for them i'm sure would be a fun filled learning experience.

i know you don't mean it, it's all that testosterone build up inside of you saying it.