Gentlemen,

While we are talking about Capt.. Dye, I thought I should put my two cents on Tactics and History. The Following are excerpts of a letter sent to Steven Spielberg, pertaining to the German Army's representation in the Film.

"Dear Mr. Spielberg:

Permit me, a twice wounded veteran of the Waffen-SS, and participant in three campaigns (Battle of the Bulge, Hungary and Austria) to comment on your picture, "Saving Private Ryan." Having read many of the accolades of this undoubtedly successful and, shall we say, "impressive," film, I hope you don't mind some criticism from both a German and a German-American point of view. Apart from the carnage immediately at the beginning of the story, during the invasion at Omaha Beach, whereon I cannot comment because I was not there; many of the battle scenes seemed unreal. You made some commendable efforts to provide authenticity through the use of several pieces of original-looking German equipment, for instance, the Schützenpanzerwagen (SPW), the MG 42s, and the Kettenkrad. And, while the appearance of German infantry soldiers of the regular Army in the Normandy bunkers was not well depicted, the Waffen SS in the street fighting at the end of the film were quite properly outfitted.

My comment about the unreality of the battle scenes has to do with the fact that the Waffen-SS would not have acted as you depicted them in "Private Ryan." While it was a common sight in battle to see both American and Russian infantry congregate around their tanks when approaching our lines, this rarely if ever occurred with the Waffen-SS. Also, for my unit you should have used 18 or 19-year old boys instead of older guys. The average age, including general officers of the heroic Hitlerjugend division at Caen, was 19 years!

Sincerely,

Hans Schmidt "

I think this letter has some very valid expressions on Capt.. Dale Dye's knowledge of the German Military of the time. And I could alot list may small unit errors on the list if you would like me to, including a detailed squad layout, battle formations, Rank structure, Order of Battles etc.

I'll say it again from one of my Previous posts, " Captain Dale Dye is a Great Guy. And A Great Marine. But not a Great German Soldier. Relatively Large mistakes where made in "Saving Private Ryan" In representing German Field Operations. Again, a Great and Experienced Marine.. But Not a German Soldier.. "

I never really have the patience to read every bit of your incredibly posts =) , but good point there of what I skimmed through

holywood doesnt care about achieving 100% accuracy . and alot of people bashed that movie not just for it's portrayals and technicality . i mean , c'mon , the same german (bald guy) soldier that Capt. Miller sets free ends up killing him . maybe Spielberg will be more technically correct in Band of Brothers .

From the Preview Information I've seen of "Band Of Brothers" It looks "okay." One Intensly major error Speilberg was told off to was that in SPR, The German soldiers heads where shaved. VERY Wrong. I neednt drag that out, I'm sure you all agree you've hear enough whining from me! http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Polaris:
holywood doesnt care about achieving 100% accuracy . and alot of people bashed that movie not just for it's portrayals and technicality . i mean , c'mon , the same german (bald guy) soldier that Capt. Miller sets free ends up killing him . maybe Spielberg will be more technically correct in Band of Brothers . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That was one of the greatest moments of the movie when the same SS guy that he realased shoots him in the chest, and the Upem kills him.



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Recycled Spooge : The Heer (Army) soldier they release and the Waffen-SS Soldier are two different Soldiers. Watch the movie again..

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by -Waffenampt-:
Recycled Spooge : The Heer (Army) soldier they release and the Waffen-SS Soldier are two different Soldiers. Watch the movie again..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well I'm sorry but you're wrong. It was the same guy. He was talking to Upem in German in both scenes, and he looked exactly the same.


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[This message has been edited by Recycled Spooge (edited June 25, 2001).]

it was the same dude , i'm watching that part now .

in concerning what upam did at the end ...too little too late Spooge . typical storyline from the movie industry anyway .

btw , if upam was assigned to my squad i would have killed the little punk a long time ago . http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Polaris:
it was the same dude , i'm watching that part now .

in concerning what upam did at the end ...too little too late Spooge . typical storyline from the movie industry anyway .

btw , if upam was assigned to my squad i would have killed the little punk a long time ago . http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ah, thanks for finally clearing up how "Upam" is spelled, because I had no clue.



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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Polaris:
it was the same dude , i'm watching that part now .

in concerning what upam did at the end ...too little too late Spooge . typical storyline from the movie industry anyway .

btw , if upam was assigned to my squad i would have killed the little punk a long time ago . http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> A typical storyline from the movie industry would have been Pearl Harbor. http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/wink.gif



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yes , you are correct there . but i think its upem , but i wouldnt know , i guess you would since he is your hero

jk http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

good point

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Polaris:
yes , you are correct there . but i think its upem , but i wouldnt know , i guess you would since he is your hero

jk http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
He isn't my hero, but he was my favorite character from that movie.


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i know RS , i'm just F'n wit ya

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Polaris:
i know RS , i'm just F'n wit ya <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Are you serious?



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Oh I see, Recycled Spooge, The German Is NOT a Waffen-SS Man. He is a normal Heer (Army) Soldier. Who can I tell? The German is wearing a "Splinter" Pattern Zeltbahn (Shelter Quarter), and is wearing a Army Tunic/Uniform head to toe, and you can see his Belt buckle is a Heer Pattern aswell (This means it reads, "Gott Mit Uns")

waff, its the same guy at the end and the guy they release,

does it really matter maybe they just picked him up and let him fight I dont think the axis were that picky about that stuff when they were practically losing the war and were loosing men

no spooge i'm not serious . i think he really is your hero

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Polaris:
no spooge i'm not serious . i think he really is your hero <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LOL ok.



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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by -Waffenampt-:
Oh I see, Recycled Spooge, The German Is NOT a Waffen-SS Man. He is a normal Heer (Army) Soldier. Who can I tell? The German is wearing a "Splinter" Pattern Zeltbahn (Shelter Quarter), and is wearing a Army Tunic/Uniform head to toe, and you can see his Belt buckle is a Heer Pattern aswell (This means it reads, "Gott Mit Uns")<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I though he was an SS soldier because he had two lightning bolts on his collar.


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Recycled Spooge:

-German Army soldier at machinegun nest - and Let go.
-German Army soldier in the town that shoots Hanks, and Upem shoots.

Those two are the same guy, And he is a normal Heer soldier fighting with the SS Panzer Division "Das Reich" as a policed up stragler and assigned him to their own unit for the time been.

The SS Soldier who stabs Melish, and walks down the stairs past a crying, terror striken Upem.

Different Soldier, Different Actor, Different Uniform and Original Unit.

See?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by -Waffenampt-:
Recycled Spooge:

-German Army soldier at machinegun nest - and Let go.
-German Army soldier in the town that shoots Hanks, and Upem shoots.

Those two are the same guy, And he is a normal Heer soldier fighting with the SS Panzer Division "Das Reich" as a policed up stragler and assigned him to their own unit for the time been.

The SS Soldier who stabs Melish, and walks down the stairs past a crying, terror striken Upem.

Different Soldier, Different Actor, Different Uniform and Original Unit.

See?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We weren't even talking about the guy that stabbed Melish.


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Spooge: Basiclly, He is not in the Waffen-SS. He has the Tradidional "Collums" on his collor tabs. Not the SS "Sieg Runen."

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by -Waffenampt-:
Spooge: Basiclly, He is not in the Waffen-SS. He has the Tradidional "Collums" on his collor tabs. Not the SS "Sieg Runen."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I guess I forgot about what he had on his collar. But it was the same guy.

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[This message has been edited by Recycled Spooge (edited June 25, 2001).]

i dont , know . i think that might be the same guy . his face looks similiar to him . the different uniform thing can be another technical error in the movie anyway .

By the way, I wasn't ever talking about the guy that stabbed the other guy.

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[This message has been edited by Recycled Spooge (edited June 25, 2001).]

My Mistake

Who gives a shit http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BallisticWookie:
Who gives a shit http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These people (who obviously have nothing better to do)!

Actually, towards the end of the war the Waffen SS was forced to police up anyone they could into their ranks. From conscripts to whomever was available to fight. Yes in the begining of the war when the Waffen SS was at its prime, they would've been consistently younger troops, but towards the end of the war they were taking what they could get, and experienced troops had high value. It's actually something that Stephen Ambrose pointed out his one of his books (it's either D-Day or Citizen Soldiers) and was discussing this fact. On the average across the entire war, the German soldier was much older compared to the US (the range was something like anywhere from 17 - 70) because of the necessity to take anyone that could fight into their ranks.

So you could say that the letter from the gentleman was both right and wrong in this respect. Towards the later half of the war, the Waffen SS was filled with a broad mix of whatever troops they could get (around the time we invaded Europe).

As for tactics, I found Capt. Dye's knowledge to be pretty on with our findings. You have to remember, that SPR at it's heart is a story, and their going to have to setup certain scenes to match the development of that story. So yes there was probably some inaccuracies made on the side of needing an event to happen that was important to the story (granted, that doesn't explain the clean-head-shaved Germans mind you :).

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Latuh fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com

"We don't introduce or cause bugs in the game, we merely find and bring to light the inadequacies within the code."
-regarding level designers

Vermilion Leader: It's cool to know he's a great guy. I've seen him in a couple of interviews and He is knowledgable in a lot of different fields, especially of the Vietnam Era, and Of General information of the Marine Corps. He seems as cool and great as every word you, and others who know him and met him, describe. Great Guy.

I was just saying that he may know how to whip some actors and computer programers into behaving and understanding alot of U.S. Standards of drill and order of arms, fighting and a flow of battle. I think it's clear on my first post here, He just doesnt reconize the little and sometimes very large details of a foreign army.

This post isnt a attempt to bash his character and popularity. Just his picture of Historical Knowledge pertaining to the German Armys seems to be loosly founded. As far as I can tell anyways. http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/smile.gif

yea id have to agree if they wanted to make the movie really realistic they shoulve gotten a German consultant for all the parts of the Germans. Hes obiviously knows alot of everything but not everything.

Hell, Even in the Movie "Stalingrad" they had a real life Knights Cross Winner advise it. Lots of mistakes were made. But I think Directors have a Hearing problem aswell. When It comes down to it, Is if they listen or not. Like in this game, and the limitations set on themselves by their producers.

I happen to know a bit about Capt. Dye. I was trained by him to be an extra in Michael Mann's "The Last of the Mohicans". Aside from the one time he told us we marched like a "Ethopian Jug F*ck" he was a very cool guy. I have the upmost respect for the man, his service to his country and his knowledge of all matters military. His job was to advise the filmaker and help make the film (be it LoTM or SPR or whatever) as authentic as possible. But as has been said, he was not a German Soldier during WW2, so there are some small details that might get past even him.

His attachment to any project be it film, TV or PC game pretty much guarantees as authentic experience as the producers are willing to show.