Cant believe this there was a thread on medal of honour at the dod forums and the topic was about moh's garand. One of em said it looked too small because of where the hand was on the front of the gun and another said it looked far too narrow near the front.

Heres a pic of DOD's garand (slightly enlarged)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald....d%20garand.jpg

And heres the MOH Garand (slightly enlarged)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald..../moh%20gar.jpg

To me the MOH garand looks far more realistic than the dod version. One thing they said that did have a point was the hand on the MOH garand looked a bit big. Anyone else think so?



[This message has been edited by Gerard (edited July 22, 2001).]

well, this is a VERY hard persective to get right.. i mean DOD's hand and arm are REALLY REALLY long.. the dudes arm doesnt even appear to have a elbow joint!

and yes MOH's hand looks like you are shooting holding it right to your face....

but... hmm.... i would say the MOH hand seems to look a bit stretched and bit too big yes... it does look like the gun is very small compared to the hand... but then again DOD's hand and gun seem to be pretty balanced.... BUT you have to consider what the garand actually fits in your hand like..... MOH's hand seems to fit right around the start of the gun where the sight is... I THINK, i dont know how it looks exactly... and DOD"s hand is further up the barrel i'd say about half way....


this is something Waffy would know


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----Savour Since 1982----

Yeah it would take you to actually hold one to get the perspective of it right. As you said in both games the view point is slightly different i suppose it comes down to whos gonna get it right amateurs (dod team) or proffessionals (MOHAA team).


For obvious reasons id say the MOH team.

I posted on general for waffy to have a squint to see what he thinks. I think its fine the way it is but the hand does seem to wrap round the gun a bit too much.

Suppose it depends on the size of powells hands too http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/smile.gif

Some idiot on the DOD forum said the Character models look like half life models LOL his heads jammed in his ass if he thinks that.

[This message has been edited by Gerard (edited July 22, 2001).]

That was me who brought up that subject.

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Here's a pic of a real garand, you be the judge...

http://www.pnwhg.org/82nd/images/gallery/photo6.jpg

That was you? If thats the case why did you never post your opinions here instead of the DOD forums?

The Garand looks fine to me, I said this before and I'll say it again. Both weapons are held in different positions, so how can you possibly judge which one is longer or shorter or blah blah blah. I think the way the Garand is held in DoD is completely wrong. It doesnt look realistic, the arms are all stretched to hell and back and it too far away from the head and shoulder. MoH's looks perfect, it's close to the face actually LOOKS like its being held in the shoulder and I tihnk it looks much better. And judging by the pic that Burgen has posted, the MoH one is MUCH closer. I wish people making mods would switch to a better engine, ie Quake 3 or Unreal, half life is sooooooo old, it looks very outdated now.
And blade...why DIDNT you post your thoughts here ??

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Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to War and my fingers to fight.

now, in looking at that picture

the DOD hands are too small and too far up... his arms must be 200 feet long

and the MOH hands are a BIT too big... should be coming up to JUST the top of the gun.. or around the bottom of the sight peice...

but MOH seems to have the best and closest hand placement... meaning they have it closer to the sight... and not too far back... DOD's on the other hand is like i said... looks like it would be almost at the barrel if it was this picture with DOD hands.


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----Savour Since 1982----

NO, I posted a topic about the garand awhile back. ON THIS FORUM

I think the garand in MOH looks shitty.

Thats my opinion

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I wish people making mods would switch to a better engine, ie Quake 3 or Unreal, half life is sooooooo old, it looks very outdated now.

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, if you werent stupid, you would see that for every game (HALF-LIFE - Quake 1,2,3- etc.) There are countless mods for every game...



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I think both garands look good but the wood on the moh garand should be a little darker and the front sight looks a little weird. (It's missing the front blade sight.) The dod garand looks like its seven feet long. They both look fine overall.

Perspective is really hard to get right with view models, always a challenge in any game :). Problem is the way we do our viewmodels and camera, we don't just have a dedicated view model (like Q3, the world models are also used as the view models). The perspective problems just stem from the engine. This may sound wierd, but to get a viewmodel to not look squished or elongated perspective wise (as in looking into the screen) you normally build the model faning out. To best describe this, imagine a viewmodel of a gun, direct on from the side with the stock on the right and the barrel on the left. On the barrel side, you expand the model upwards and downwards, and then decrease the expansion back to the stock so the stock isn't expanded in any direction. So it looks like a cone, with the wide end by the barrel, and the narrow end by the stock. This allows you to make sure the objects furthest from your view look accurate and not squished. Since we don't have a dedicated viewmodel, we can't do this, so we have to come up with the best overall balance. I think this is why people say the barrel end of our Garand looks a little funny, it's because it's elongated just slightly compared to the rest of the gun that's up close in your view.

So that's what you'd do in games like DoD, CS, TF, or any game with a dedicated view model, you correct for the perspective in the model itself (we did this on Wages of SiN as well :).

But on another note, one of the guys here brought in a real Garand, and the modellers were shown the proper way to hold it, and we used that as reference when making the model and positioning the hands and such :).

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Latuh fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com

"We don't introduce or cause bugs in the game, we merely find and bring to light the inadequacies within the code."
-regarding level designers

Ok blade, take a chill pill and settle down. I said I wish people would stop making mods with the HALF LIFE ENGINE. I realize there are many mods out there using the Quake 3 engine, but none are as good as DoD or Counterstrike. The only mods that come close to those are Infiltration, Strike Force and Tactical Ops which use the Unreal engine and Urban Terror which uses the Quake 3 engine. I'm just stating that Half life is getting old and maybe mod makers of the future should think about swapping over to Q3 or Unreal for their mod making.

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http://www.usmedals.com/prodpix/p295.jpg
Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to War and my fingers to fight.

and dont insult my intelligence again by calling me stupid.

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http://www.usmedals.com/prodpix/p295.jpg
Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to War and my fingers to fight.

sweet, did you guys bring in the higgins boat and model it? what about the plane!?

heh http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/wink.gif

j/k

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Even Medal of Honor (psx version) had a better looking Garand than DoD's, and that doesn't say very much...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BallisticWookie:
and dont insult my intelligence again by calling me stupid.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


1. No one tells me what to do

2. You are right about the Half Life engine is getting old

3. HL mods are still good

Most people go for making HL mods because Quake and Unreal Tournament requires to much outta your system.. I'd think you would need a 32 video card or more to play both of them..

HL might be getting old, but DoD,TFC,CS,Firearms, and countless other mods have been the funnest games Ive ever played...

I never purchased Quake 3 or Unreal because my system is too old..

Id make a mod for a game where everyone could play



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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von Paulus:
Even Medal of Honor (psx version) had a better looking Garand than DoD's, and that doesn't say very much...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


DoD is more like CS, but World War Two Style.

You have to understand that...

I think DoD is a successfull Half Life mod.

I do think the garand in DoD is messed up, but it doesnt change the gameplay..

most of the other guns in DoD are accurate... I think?



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Hopefully 2015 have some info on this garand question. As for halflife mods being good id say thats seriously a matter of opinion.

A lot of the gameplay elements in DOD are severly crippled because of how old the halflife engine is. In maps like dod hill if your an allied sniper normally you can tell if theres axis in the tower sniping or the machine gun bunkers because you can see them through it, which renders them useless.

I agree with ballasticwookie the halflife engine isn't suited to dod ,hell it cant even make a decen sized outdoor map without the textures disappearing from a distance. Quake 3 engine would have been a better chice but they opted for an engine which is getting antiquated. Anyway this threads not about DOD its about the MOH garand so lets not get too OT.


BTW BLADE how does the MOH garand look shitty? Point out what exactly you think is wrong with it.

[This message has been edited by Gerard (edited July 23, 2001).]