Anti-Cheat Development
 

theres a post today in this forum showing working examples of a number of cheats recently released. thats fucked.... no 2 ways about it.

you are always gonna have cheats but informing people that they exist while doing noting to prevent them is fkn stupid... and anyone wants to dispute that step up.

now i found the authors original release of that cheats pack along with revisions since then including the PK3 files.... and i had that pk3 in under 3 seconds from leaving this site. now we know that this shit works (to whatever degree dont matter) but the fact that it will go completely undetected is worse. aint nothin stopping anyone from using it.

now what shits me just as much as people cheating is idiots relying on pissweak and flawed solutions to fix it. we got fkn rounds of appluase for some guy thinks that spectating a player is a "powerful tool" against cheaters.... i mean seriously WHAT THE FUCK??? you can get this same effect by NOT spectating.... just randomly kick/ban players and accuse them of cheating and miss the majority and youlll get yaself just as good a strike-rate as you can by spectating someone. you got nothing to prove or even suggest that they were or not and you will sure as shit miss the majority that do.

now heres the point... i read a few days ago that rcon can return a list of filenames and variables that a player is running. now depending on how much info on a players setup can be gotten through rcon this is something that can actually be done about identifying cheats. since we already have tools for server admins that run automated rcon commands to get info returned for players this looks to me like something could be implemented as an anti-cheat program.

i cant code so i cannot do this. the only thing i can offer.... like every other MoH player who does not want to play againsts cheats.... is to report these cheat files once they are found so that anti-cheat server tools can be developed. so at the very least can we please get a stickynote up on these forums with some developers contact info that can actually do some good by getting their hands on newly released cheats. i private messaged someone about getting this contact info but i didnt find those cheats today.... someone else did.... so make the contact info visisble if its to be used.

i did read a post that some anti-cheat program was being developed but that it was "hush hush" at the moment..... well fuck me you wanna guess how usefull this is? it sure aint available on any of the servers i play on. its not informing us that they know of certain cheats and something is being done.... the cheaters are *sometimes* informing us of cheats and that theres nothing to stop them doing so. all i know is that every week i play more and more people are cheating and still nothing being done to stop it. this is whats known for certain at present.

as ive said a number of times with no official support from EA for patches.... without online CD-ID verification and distributed banning there is nothing to stop cheats and no deterrant if they are caught. if something IS being done that you know of then for fucks sake give the players some fkn info so they can help out with it. like i said.... i found out something got released and 3 seconds later i have the binary.... i dont cheat so i got no incentive to look for these releases every day.... how bout some incentive for people like me to do so and pass it onto someone who can do some good with it?

r3mix

remix the only reason I posted this was to tell you guys what to watch out for. Cause if a guy comes in always shooting the right direcrection and you didn't know there was a doorhack/wallhack then you think hes just lucky. Everytime I post cheats a pm crow kind and dogmeat and they said theres not to much they can do until the expack comes out. So i guess play on trusted servers like the aa.com server untill then.

What if they get their hands on the hack? They can take a look at the code to see what's been changed, no?

I actually knew that all those cheats existed. I go to a site that hosts them every so often, just to see what is out there. Then I come back here and quietly laugh at the guys that swear there are no cheats.

This game is best played in base. The sdk release will ruin the online gameplay for MOH if this many cheats can be made with out it. Skins are a cool idea until bright skins are made. Realism gives the game a new diminsion, but then people figure out how to kill recoil and apply other lesson to client side cheats. Hackers will find a way. Watching a buddy with the satellite tv hacks proved that to me. The lack of support by 2015 and EA hurts this game more than the non-release of the sdk. Sure anti cheats could be made with the sdk, but they would only be playing catch up to the cheaters.

Dedicated cheaters will always find the cheats. Its not hard. Casual cheaters need only a little prodding.

[quote="ST_Bazooka_Joe":43bec]What if they get their hands on the hack? They can take a look at the code to see what's been changed, no?[/quote:43bec]

i dont see your point.
is there some downside to identifying and banning use of known hacks so that they cant be used? if the problem is that cheaters will have to make new cheats to replace the ones that can no longer be used thats a good thing no?

r3mix

yeah thats sorta why informing people of the availability of cheats without having *any* means to stop their use is fkn stupid. of course theres the numbnuts who bought the game the day it came out and started looking for cheats straight away.... but theres also a lot of people who wouldnt go do this on their own unless informed that they could.

r3mix

WOW!!! You're one T'ed off, Dude. I don't blame you, but I can advise something that will help. We ALL know there's cheats out there, to one degree or another. Admins I'm sure have enough to worry about, but the good ones always seem to keep the server clean. Since you have no way of really knowing who's just THAT good and who's cheating, why worry about it?

However, your concern about the full SDK coming out is shared by me. I hate the idea that people will be able to see exactly how things work in order to work around them. If it gets bad enough, I may even stop playing all together. But the upside to that is that tools like the one you're looking for can be developed as well.

I guess I'm just saying, relax. Play a server you have the most fun on and don't let cheaters get to you. How long will someone continue to play if all they do is cheat. There's no challenge in that and eventually it becomes a bore.

Just my $.02.

[quote="Captain_McCusker":dad26] If it gets bad enough, I may even stop playing all together.[/quote:dad26]

me too and its the only reason i raised the matter.
i know cheat developers will be on the SDK the day its released i want to know if anyones gonna follow them.

ps. believe me im not one of these screaming fools who thinks everyones cheating now.... i havent even suspected anyone i have played against of cheating.... and even if they were cheating accusing them doesnt come close to going back and blowing their head off five times.

r3mix

[quote:6d791]If it gets bad enough, I may even stop playing all together.[/quote:6d791]

Don't let the @ssholes win. What will you do, play another game ??
Different games, different names there will always be cheaters...
Just as there are honest gamers around that you can trust and that will play fair. Stick to playing with people you can trust.
Sad enough that's not everybody on this planet.
hake:

What I meant was you said that Crow & DogMeat can't do much about it. I'm saying what if the hacks were sent to them, they could look at the code and possibly have a better solution as to blocking the hack.

Almost every single hack I've seen involves client files being different from server files, meaning if sv_pure worked it'd stop those hacks. About the only things it wouldn't fix is Driver hacks (wallhack) and map problems left by the original mappers.

And yes, I do monitor several cheat sites and message boards thanks to players sending them to me as they find them.

Don't let the @ssholes win. What will you do, play another game ??
Different games, different names there will always be cheaters...
Just as there are honest gamers around that you can trust and that will play fair. Stick to playing with people you can trust.
Sad enough that's not everybody on this planet.
hake:[/quote:e74aa]

Agreed. However, while I LOVE playing games, it's not the only thing that drives me. I figure if I play a game until I'm bored with it I got much more than I payed for - and that's been far exceeded by MOH. So if a time comes that cheaters appear to be everywhere I'll be happy that I had a good run with it.

To say that I let them win, well... no... If they cheat to get their rocks off then the only real person losing is them. Who likes playing a game over and over if there's no real challenge to it. Eventually it will lose it's pizazz and they'll find something else to cheat at, all the while not learning anything.

Meanwhile we all know the servers we like the best, and if you're anything like me it's because the admins keep a tight ship. So get the enjoyment you can out of the game and don't worry about the cheaters. Besides, there are new games coming out all the time, so I'm sure their attention will drift to cheating elsewhere.

yeah in MJ's post about cheats i said discovered a wallhack for SP without using cheats, here is the pic...and if you ask me to tell you how to do it i'll destroy oOo:

[img]http://mohdodgeball.netfirms.com/wallhack.jpg[/img]

CHEATER HE HAS WALLHACK KILL HIM

Astounding
 

I am bewildered that someone would go through the trouble of cheating on a video game! Back in the days of the original Nintendo, I enjoyed the occaisional cheat code or two (Contra!), but I wouldn't alter the code!

Rationally, I could understand swindling someone for material gain (not that I agree with that) -- but to cheat at something that only they can derive pleasure from? What pleasureis gained from this, anyway?
Please, get a life

R3mix, I support you ideas. I have actually a thread going on in the EA Games forums regarding admin commands for checking client cvars. My humble request from all of you is to help me keeping that posting alive and at the top of their forum! Perhaps they'll listen if they see many postings regarding the same issue. If you feel this issue important then post your thoughts here: http://boards.ea.com/messages?14@123.lKTjaFdMuKn^1@.ef7fc74

Thanks in advance,
maggot.se

i agree with the earlier take that a cheater (assuming there is one) will bore quickly and fall by the wayside after a time. I really don't care. Most of the ppl I play with are honest I think...

Myself and two others tried when the game first came out to use the file functions & cvars via a script to detect cheats. The problem is, while you can access files on your own machine fairly easily, the developers were not real comfortable (for good reason) giving scripters the ability to access the file system on client machines via the server. There are worse things than cheating.

There is a downside to the SDK coming out - the "safe harbor" will go away. However, there are significant upsides, too. The community's ability to create will increase exponentially. If things get really bad, someone will write a verifier that runs on both the client and server that checks for cheats prior to allowing you to join the server. People who care enough about the issue will download it and server admins who care will run it.

[quote="ST_Bazooka_Joe":c216e]What I meant was you said that Crow & DogMeat can't do much about it. I'm saying what if the hacks were sent to them, they could look at the code and possibly have a better solution as to blocking the hack.[/quote:c216e]

i said no such thing nor did i mention any people.
i am however saying that if there was an anti-cheat program being developed i would like to see some cheat submissions info made public.

r3mix

[quote="maggot.se":11503]R3mix, I support you ideas. I have actually a thread going on in the EA Games forums regarding admin commands for checking client cvars. My humble request from all of you is to help me keeping that posting alive and at the top of their forum! Perhaps they'll listen if they see many postings regarding the same issue. If you feel this issue important then post your thoughts here: [url="http://boards.ea.com/messages?14@123.lKTjaFdMuKn"]http://boards.ea.com/messages?14@123.lKTjaFdMuKn[/url]^1@.ef7fc74

Thanks in advance,
maggot.se[/quote:11503]

yeah man i saw your couple of posts yesterday and the first thing i thought was somone should blanket THESE forums getting people over there to back you up. its their site... their forums.... and its higly visible. if you wanna demand something from a company you go stand at their front door with signs.... not yours.

r3mix

[quote="Crow King":60efc]
There is a downside to the SDK coming out - the "safe harbor" will go away. However, there are significant upsides, too. The community's ability to create will increase exponentially. If things get really bad, someone will write a verifier that runs on both the client and server that checks for cheats prior to allowing you to join the server. People who care enough about the issue will download it and server admins who care will run it.[/quote:60efc]

yeah i think the whole SDK stuff-will-be-possible issue has been pretty much understood for some time. the point im trying to raise is can we get some information on whether anything is planned on the anti-cheat side of this.

whether or not an anti-cheat program can be devloped yet there can certainly be no downside to building a list of known cheats that are available now without the SDK. simple MD5 checksums of files and info about unique TIKs being submitted would mean that it would have somewhere to start.

r3mix

[quote:9e09a]yeah man i saw your couple of posts yesterday and the first thing i thought was somone should blanket THESE forums getting people over there to back you up. its their site... their forums.... and its higly visible. if you wanna demand something from a company you go stand at their front door with signs.... not yours.

r3mix [/quote:9e09a]

Thanks for your comment about the EA thread, r3mix. This is the only thing I can do since I know nothing about programming, just my $0.02 to the community ..

Hi again guys,

I posted this at EA:s Mohaa forum:

"There are commands like sv_minrate & sv_maxrate - Why not adopt that min/max concept into the other cvars aswell? For example: sv_minlodcap, sv_maxlodcap (I won't mention them all, you know which I mean), that would atleast help a bit .."

Since the clientinfo, sv_maxrate & minrate is working I believe that this should work aswell, or have I misunderstood it all? Since I know nada about these things I can be all wrong, please inform me if that's the case since I'm "nagging" a lot at EA:s forum about this ;)

The link to that thread: http://boards.ea.com/messages?14@168.s1oHarJMutq^1@.ef7fc74

Sry, got the posts mixed up. Tbry23m said it, not you. eatthis: