Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ydiss
The universe is a great unknown. That nothing could be created from nothing is the great mystery. Discussing that and religion is futile, nothing can prove nor discprove anything if you know nothing of it to start with.
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I was not trying to start a discussion about the universe, I was trying to make an analogy: On the one hand the universe (definition: everything, everything that we know of) and the thing the universe expands into ('nothing', unknown), on the other hand science (the explained things, things that have been proven correct) and God (not proven, unexplained). I chose this analogy with the universe to make it clear that the human mind does not know all, thus giving reason to a religion. What I was trying to make clear is that although some things have not been proven or seen, it does not mean that those things are nonexistent. They simply are not part of our 'universe' yet (people who want to use this argument to validate them thinking we are all living in the Matrix are allowed to, biggrin: )
Things like this are the reason for the existence of religion. A zillion years ago it was because we did not understand what a thunderstorm was all about[quote:3fb54]That is
exactly what I meant!
Religion was created to answer questions about unknown phenomena.
Humans did not know what caused death, pain, anger, happiness, lust, rain, trees, sunshine, snow and everything else that they encountered daily.[/quote:3fb54]Yes, this is true. I agree (obviously). Does not mean that God/a higher being does not exist. But then again, that's not really the purpose of this discussion is it. It is merely an exchange of opinions.
and even nowadays we can not completely comprehend and predict the nature of a thunderstorm[quote:3fb54]But we do know a lot more than people did 2000 years ago, don't we?
We have many more answers than they did. We understand how things work a lot more.
Religion is formed from awe.
If you do not understand how something works, why it happens or how to control it you will be in awe of it. You may even fear it.
The more you know about something, the less it awes you. If you can control it then you will fear it less.
If you could possibly take a huge TV back to before Christ and play a music video in front of thousands of people then there is every chance that they would believe they were seeing a God. They might even worship it, write about it and tell stories about it.
To them there is no way to explain it so they will find ways to explain it to themselves. They would have every right to believe in it... After-all they don't know any better, do they? And thousands of years later that would hold true.[/quote:3fb54]Nice example, I often use something similar when discussing religion with people. Because things that are possible now, were possible back then, even though they had not been invented or discovered yet.
And, okay then, we're back to the basis of religion: Faith. Whether you like it or not: Everybody is a believer. Either you believe in a God/higher being/etc. or you don't believe. A disbeliever? No. You're not sure are you?[quote:3fb54]I am totally sure what I believe in.
I believe in happiness, sharing and my familly. I believe in love, doing my best and having fun.
I believe in a lot of things.
I try my best to live a good life, to help and support others. I try to have fun. I try to make a difference in my life.
I, and any other person in this world, can do all of that without even being told what God and religion is.
Being a good person is
not dependant on being religious. Most Agnostics and Atheists understand that.
Religious people tend not to.
And when I die?
I will hope that I will live on in the hearts and memories of my familly and friends. If that happens, and I am sure it will, then I will die a happy man.[/quote:3fb54]It's nice that you are sure of what you do and do not believe in. I am not that sure. I am quite sure a higher being (God) exists, but
absolutely sure? Not really. Not 100% (people who are 100% sure that God exists will probably say I will go straight to hell for not being
totally sure. But because of my scientific background, having no proof, I can't be 100% sure. I can not rule out the possibility that God does not exist. Yet. Maybe when I reach 40. Given my scientific background, it would probably be easier to be a non-believer.[quote:3fb54]I am not trying to prove to Christians that God does not exist. Equally I do not think Christians should try to convince others that he does.
But, religious people do exactly that, day after day after day.
It should be up to the individual to make up their mind. It would be nice if it was left at that.
I was given that option. And I firmly believe that is how it should be.[/quote:3fb54]Christians try to convince other people because they want other people to go to heaven as well, and to let them experience that what they have found in their religion. They are allowed to, as far as I am concerned. We can discuss, and because of some discussions some people will choose God, some will choose not to believe. But at least we can learn to understand eachother. Or try to. We should not fight over it. Convincing everybody of something like religion or type of religion will never happen.
Indeed, it should be up to the individual. I wish more people understood that. Days of heresy are behind us. At least in most Western countries. The sooner everybody admits that one man can and should not always try impose his religion or opinion to another, the better.