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Tiwaz · 06-11-2003, 09:18 AM

Another view:

God may exist. But maybe God doesn't exist. Then all those believers would be wrong right? Since we have no factual evidence that a higher being exists (I personally don't consider the Bible to be factual evidence), it is a matter of belief.

I have heard of many people who find strenth in faith. Some have found Jesus and started a 'new' life. So, even if Jesus does not exist, the new life is there. People who have a terrible illness may find strenth in faith. Imagine God does not exist. The have found strength anyway. And that is exactly the reason why everybody should be free to choose what (not) to believe in.

The other way around is also possible. You are religious, and because of some reason you renounce your religion. And your life turns around for the better (hello Innoxx). What if God does not exist. Your life is better now. So God didn't have anything to do with that.

What I am trying to say is:

1) If God does not exist, I honestly believe that all people who believe would have had the exact same life as they have now. Same for the non-believers. Why? Because their religion is the same, even if what they believe in is not there. Of course, all firm believers would disagree with me, since they say God controls all. Also the life of non-believers. So, in this case (most cases) the Christians are always 'right'. They have an answer for everything. And the only thing the non-believer can reply is: Yes, okay, but God does not exist so you're full of crap.

2) If God does exist, it is very simple: Life would be the same as well, because he exists and controls all (or at least a lot). He cares for the non-believer as well as the believer, I think. We're all humans aren't we?

Again: It is a matter of belief. And choice, to some extent (upbringing by parents and education does have influence, also later in your life). You find strength in faith? Enjoy it. Not suited for you? Fine too. This may seem a very simple and shallow opinion to some, but this is not the case. Try to be respectful to anyone, no matter what they believe. This is not always easy. Especially not when you're young.

But what about Islam? Fundamentalists? We all know it is wrong (well, not all, but many in the West), so we want to teach them our values. Actually, much like winning souls ('crusades'). We consider ourselves enlightened. We know oppression of women is not good. Lapidation of unmarried pregnant women or women who committed adultery...not good (Nigeria). But why do so many people think this is the way it should be? Because they are now where we were about, I don't know, 500 years ago? In a few hundred years many of them will also admit: Hey, that was wrong. At this moment you might think 'yes, okay, but we have to stop them', but I don't think so. Imposing our opinion (even it is correct) too firmly might cause an even stronger faith.

I am not saying that Islam is bad, but extremists are bad. Also Christian extremists (many now considered enlightened, Western civilizations have been bad too, remember the Dark Ages?).

Oh, it is unbelievable how humans can make the greatest mess because of some opinion or (misinterpretation of a) story. It is not religion that is a bad thing, it's the nature of humans. Just like pest said in a post on page 2 or so. Religion isn't the reason for war, it is the excuse. If religion did not exist, we would find another reason to start a fight ('lean-strafing should be disabled because it sucks', 'hey you UK/Aussie people, stop driving on the wrong side of the road...it is not right'). Is it because many of us need a fight every once in a while? Is it the lust for power? Many books have been written on this subject. And it seems Western civilization is doing a fine job since WWII. But who knows what the future has in stock for us.

Just some thoughts.

And, admitted, maybe too long, biggrin:

	(#168)
Tiwaz is Offline Senior Member Posts: 637 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Out	06-11-2003, 09:18 AM Another view: God may exist. But maybe God doesn't exist. Then all those believers would be wrong right? Since we have no factual evidence that a higher being exists (I personally don't consider the Bible to be factual evidence), it is a matter of belief. I have heard of many people who find strenth in faith. Some have found Jesus and started a 'new' life. So, even if Jesus does not exist, the new life is there. People who have a terrible illness may find strenth in faith. Imagine God does not exist. The have found strength anyway. And that is exactly the reason why everybody should be free to choose what (not) to believe in. The other way around is also possible. You are religious, and because of some reason you renounce your religion. And your life turns around for the better (hello Innoxx). What if God does not exist. Your life is better now. So God didn't have anything to do with that. What I am trying to say is: 1) If God does not exist, I honestly believe that all people who believe would have had the exact same life as they have now. Same for the non-believers. Why? Because their religion is the same, even if what they believe in is not there. Of course, all firm believers would disagree with me, since they say God controls all. Also the life of non-believers. So, in this case (most cases) the Christians are always 'right'. They have an answer for everything. And the only thing the non-believer can reply is: Yes, okay, but God does not exist so you're full of crap. 2) If God does exist, it is very simple: Life would be the same as well, because he exists and controls all (or at least a lot). He cares for the non-believer as well as the believer, I think. We're all humans aren't we? Again: It is a matter of belief. And choice, to some extent (upbringing by parents and education does have influence, also later in your life). You find strength in faith? Enjoy it. Not suited for you? Fine too. This may seem a very simple and shallow opinion to some, but this is not the case. Try to be respectful to anyone, no matter what they believe. This is not always easy. Especially not when you're young. But what about Islam? Fundamentalists? We all know it is wrong (well, not all, but many in the West), so we want to teach them our values. Actually, much like winning souls ('crusades'). We consider ourselves enlightened. We know oppression of women is not good. Lapidation of unmarried pregnant women or women who committed adultery...not good (Nigeria). But why do so many people think this is the way it should be? Because they are now where we were about, I don't know, 500 years ago? In a few hundred years many of them will also admit: Hey, that was wrong. At this moment you might think 'yes, okay, but we have to stop them', but I don't think so. Imposing our opinion (even it is correct) too firmly might cause an even stronger faith. I am not saying that Islam is bad, but extremists are bad. Also Christian extremists (many now considered enlightened, Western civilizations have been bad too, remember the Dark Ages?). Oh, it is unbelievable how humans can make the greatest mess because of some opinion or (misinterpretation of a) story. It is not religion that is a bad thing, it's the nature of humans. Just like pest said in a post on page 2 or so. Religion isn't the reason for war, it is the excuse. If religion did not exist, we would find another reason to start a fight ('lean-strafing should be disabled because it sucks', 'hey you UK/Aussie people, stop driving on the wrong side of the road...it is not right'). Is it because many of us need a fight every once in a while? Is it the lust for power? Many books have been written on this subject. And it seems Western civilization is doing a fine job since WWII. But who knows what the future has in stock for us. Just some thoughts. And, admitted, maybe too long, biggrin: