[quote:45ce5]Are you suggesting that killing a burgler is alright if he's trying to enter your house[/quote:45ce5]
You might have me here. If someone broke into my house I would try to detain them first by holding them at gun point, then if unsuccessful, I would shoot them. Can I ask the man "excuse me, are you breaking in just to steal replaceable merchandise or are you here to hurt someone?"? I guess I could but "by definition" is a thief honest?
However, that was not the point of the quote. The point of the quote was that for the study in question to come up with the statistics stated (and in fact the statistics that you use in your most recent post appear to have come from the same study) they had to skew the numbers by only including gun-related cases to crimes where the perpetrator was killed. They did not include any time where he was only injured or held with a gun until police arrived. Had they done so the numbers would not have proven their hypothesis.
[quote:45ce5]Did you read all the links I posted?[/quote:45ce5]
Yep. And I almost commented that your links were very biased in their interpretation of some studies, as I'm sure the websites that I like to use are slanted towards their political belief. Most of my numbers, however, came from governement statistics not lobbyist sponsered studies. But, you are right to be sceptical of statistics. That's why this discussion should be based not in crime rates or deaths caused but in an analysis of what rights and liberties we have as humans.
As for the stats that you listed - I believe many to be exaggarated. The article that you site include Dr. Kellerman as one of its sources. As stated before I find his methods to unsound and biased. One thing in the article that is interesting to me is that it states there are 65 MILLION handguns in the US. With that many guns and relatively so few accidental deaths, I would say that the gun owners of America have an incredible safety record. And the fact that there are so many and relatively few crimes committed per gun shows that the gun itself is not the evil party here.
[quote:45ce5]Just because crime increases does not mean it is control related./quote]
I agree, but it sure seems strange that it was declining for several years prior to the ban.
As for the racism point, it's not relavent to this discussion.
[/quote:45ce5]824 which I believe, if guns were bannedm wouldn't exist.[quote:45ce5]
Maybe this number WOULD decline, but at what cost. If murders, rapes, etc. increased far more than that number would it be worth it? And you are assuming that ALL guns would be turned in (all 65 million handguns plus shotguns, rifles, etc.), including those held by criminals. NOW who is kidding themselves?
[/quote:45ce5]All that happens is that the "bad" guys end up with more weapons.
[quote:45ce5]
Exactly my point.
[/quote:45ce5]Yes, but you're being pedantic.[quote:45ce5]
And I thought I was being sagacious. :lol: Pedantic, hmm, great word. I had to look it up. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to use it in a sentence, but it's a great word.
And from another one of your posts:
[quote:45ce5]You can't trust people. They are stupid.[/quote:45ce5][/quote:45ce5]
There is the difference between us. I believe that individuals can be trusted. That they are innocent until proven guilty. That individuals are smart enough to make decisions for themselves without the need for government to hold their hand or be their daily protector. That they are granted certain inalienable rights by their Creator, these being life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, that..... Do I hear God Bless America playing in the background?
:wink:
