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jujumantb · 06-07-2005, 07:03 PM

[quote:3994a]-the 1.5 foot gap between the tweeter mount and the lower speaker is not an issue, not to mention the time correction feature on any decent HU can help solve this problem. Any Alpine deck offering the I-personalize feature goes above and beyond the call of tuning your system. [/quote:3994a]
Time correction has nothing to do with this. Time correction is to help make your rear speakers or subs sound like they're up front, and also to imitate the left and right speakers being the same distance from you ears, it will not help having you highs coming from a tweeter up in the a-pillar and mids coming from down low sound good. Again, this type of setup can be accomplished and sound good, just as the way my setup can sound good aswell. There is little right and wrong in car audio when it comes to stuff like this, if the installer knows what they're doing, alot of stuff that seems impractical can have amazing results.

Also learning from one guy is fine, especially if he is great at what he does, but in my experience, I've found that people, especially hardcore audiophiles, are VERY stubborn when it comes to this stuff, they have THEIR way of doing things in which they will defend to the end, even if their way isnt truely the best or easiest way of doing things.
[quote:3994a]-In any case, I always prefer a ported solution for my subwoofer setup. Hell I enjoy bandpass setups more then sealed.[/quote:3994a]
Ported is a fine way of boxing up a sub, it is a very efficient design and can get very loud. They are also the easiest to make have a truely flat frequency response donw to 20hz. If you ever have used a box modeling program like winISD to build boxes, its easy to see how nice and flat you can get a ported box's response. Sadly enough, there are two big faults that ported boxes have for a car audio SQ setup:
1) Remember that nice flat response of ported boxes I was talking about, well once you put that box in a car, you can forget all about it, you will get a HUGE peak in the lowend of the response. THis is due to cabin gain, which is a term used for the effect the enclosed space in a car has on the respnse of a sub, it is usually a peak anywhere from 30-50hz depending on the car, the smaller the car, the higher the peak, hence why small hatchbacks and such are so often used in SPL competitions. In a home audio application, a big ol' room experiences very little "cabin gain", hence, ported boxes are almost always unsed in home audio. If you used winISD to model up a sealed box, you would see that the response drops off as you go down to lower frequencies. This seems bad, but when you add cabin gain to that response, you will usually get a pretty damn flat in car reponse requiring very little EQing to be perfectl flat.
2) The second fault of ported boxes is poor transient response. You can have the greatest sub in the world, but put it in a poorly designed box, it will sound like crap, a box has a HUGE effect on how the sub will perform. Transient response is more or less the way a sub goes from frequency to frequency, good transient response will sound like the sub is hitting every note perfectly, a poor one will sound muddled together. A ported box has a poor transient response, and the lower you tune, IIRC, the worse it gets. The effect of transient response isnt always extremly audible, if you've ever heard like a JL W7 in its HO box, you know a good sub in a good ported box will play notes pretty accurately, although refer to #1, not flat

. The biggest problem of poor transient response is in the higher bass frequencies (60-90hz), where the critical crossover point of the sub and the mids is. With a poor transient, this juction never seems to blend together well and it is quite apparent which notes the sub is playing and which the mids are playing, sounding torn appart near thte corssover point. A sealed box has an excellent transient response and does not suffer form these problems.

A note on bandpass:
They are incredibly efficient boxes, even moreso than ported, I've never heard a custom built one which I am assuming you are talking about, any prefab bandpass box you can buy at stores sound like utter crap, they are designed for a large peak and have the worst transient response of any box. From what you say you like, you definitly sound like a classic basshead

nothing wrong with that, I used to be aswell, but now prefer accurate reproduction of music instead of bass intense reproduction, though I enjoy a nice bass sytem still every now and then, even my next setup could go back to SPL, we'll see.
And sure, I'd love to have a look at you install, hit me up!

	(#21)
jujumantb is Offline 2nd Lieutenant Posts: 3,527 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Laguna, Beach woowow Posts: 18463	06-07-2005, 07:03 PM [quote:3994a]-the 1.5 foot gap between the tweeter mount and the lower speaker is not an issue, not to mention the time correction feature on any decent HU can help solve this problem. Any Alpine deck offering the I-personalize feature goes above and beyond the call of tuning your system. [/quote:3994a] Time correction has nothing to do with this. Time correction is to help make your rear speakers or subs sound like they're up front, and also to imitate the left and right speakers being the same distance from you ears, it will not help having you highs coming from a tweeter up in the a-pillar and mids coming from down low sound good. Again, this type of setup can be accomplished and sound good, just as the way my setup can sound good aswell. There is little right and wrong in car audio when it comes to stuff like this, if the installer knows what they're doing, alot of stuff that seems impractical can have amazing results. Also learning from one guy is fine, especially if he is great at what he does, but in my experience, I've found that people, especially hardcore audiophiles, are VERY stubborn when it comes to this stuff, they have THEIR way of doing things in which they will defend to the end, even if their way isnt truely the best or easiest way of doing things. [quote:3994a]-In any case, I always prefer a ported solution for my subwoofer setup. Hell I enjoy bandpass setups more then sealed.[/quote:3994a] Ported is a fine way of boxing up a sub, it is a very efficient design and can get very loud. They are also the easiest to make have a truely flat frequency response donw to 20hz. If you ever have used a box modeling program like winISD to build boxes, its easy to see how nice and flat you can get a ported box's response. Sadly enough, there are two big faults that ported boxes have for a car audio SQ setup: 1) Remember that nice flat response of ported boxes I was talking about, well once you put that box in a car, you can forget all about it, you will get a HUGE peak in the lowend of the response. THis is due to cabin gain, which is a term used for the effect the enclosed space in a car has on the respnse of a sub, it is usually a peak anywhere from 30-50hz depending on the car, the smaller the car, the higher the peak, hence why small hatchbacks and such are so often used in SPL competitions. In a home audio application, a big ol' room experiences very little "cabin gain", hence, ported boxes are almost always unsed in home audio. If you used winISD to model up a sealed box, you would see that the response drops off as you go down to lower frequencies. This seems bad, but when you add cabin gain to that response, you will usually get a pretty damn flat in car reponse requiring very little EQing to be perfectl flat. 2) The second fault of ported boxes is poor transient response. You can have the greatest sub in the world, but put it in a poorly designed box, it will sound like crap, a box has a HUGE effect on how the sub will perform. Transient response is more or less the way a sub goes from frequency to frequency, good transient response will sound like the sub is hitting every note perfectly, a poor one will sound muddled together. A ported box has a poor transient response, and the lower you tune, IIRC, the worse it gets. The effect of transient response isnt always extremly audible, if you've ever heard like a JL W7 in its HO box, you know a good sub in a good ported box will play notes pretty accurately, although refer to #1, not flat . The biggest problem of poor transient response is in the higher bass frequencies (60-90hz), where the critical crossover point of the sub and the mids is. With a poor transient, this juction never seems to blend together well and it is quite apparent which notes the sub is playing and which the mids are playing, sounding torn appart near thte corssover point. A sealed box has an excellent transient response and does not suffer form these problems. A note on bandpass: They are incredibly efficient boxes, even moreso than ported, I've never heard a custom built one which I am assuming you are talking about, any prefab bandpass box you can buy at stores sound like utter crap, they are designed for a large peak and have the worst transient response of any box. From what you say you like, you definitly sound like a classic basshead nothing wrong with that, I used to be aswell, but now prefer accurate reproduction of music instead of bass intense reproduction, though I enjoy a nice bass sytem still every now and then, even my next setup could go back to SPL, we'll see. And sure, I'd love to have a look at you install, hit me up!