[Trunks]

I am appalled. This country is really moving away from what it was meant to be at an alarming rate. This is simply intolerable. So what if gays are different than us? They are still people, citizens of the US, and should have the same rights and freedoms as any other citizen. What the hell are people thinking? Thats like punishing people for getting the cold, or for being born with defects etc. I honestly cant believe people would be so hypocrytical, americans brag of the freedoms the enjoy, immigrants come to America in search of a better life, and yet this is what we do? Things like this piss me off so much mad:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... riage_vote

[Johnj]

Why do a man and woman get married? To have and raise children. They get married so thier children can benifit from the union. It also helps to keep the number of street children down. Just as soon as you can show me a couple of gays that can have thier own children (and I'm not talking about using a surregate for any part of the reproduction process) then I might change my mind. Does this make me a homophobe? I don't think so. I could care less if you find some guys hairy ass attractive. You and your bud can go (Edit not in this post please) all you want. Go march in a gay pride parade, I won't even bother to watch. We still have laws that say you can't marry your dog or a goat. Or your sister. And we're a better place for those laws.

[TiberiusAD]

The way I see it, this is just as it should be.

I do not think a persons sexual preference/skin color/gender/relegion/ect. should have any bearing on FEDERAL law-making, or constitution adjustment.
I don't think the President, nor Congress should be able to pass laws that effects our entire culture in this sence. Federal Law should be reserved for very serious crime and act as a guidline for state and local law.

If I were the president, this is how I would have it. Leave each state of the union to decide for themselves, what is best for thier own people. I just don't think that a universal law would work in circumstances like:

Gay Union . Stem Cell Research . Biblical reference in public places . Abortion . Ect...

Our Democracy is just not very good at handling cultural & social evolution. Majority wins just is not a very good way to handle complex social morality disagreements. By keeping things on a smaller scale, based directly on local culture I think you will develope a better set of standards and rules based on what the people of a given area want.

This works in a multitude of different circumstances in our country today, things like driving laws & ages, social aid, building & worker requirements laws, ect. And I see no reason why we should be so two-sided as to have to choose one way or the other. We are far too complex a people for a totalitarian government.

[Johnj]

It's also not like this ban on gay marriage was just enacted. Gays have never been able to be married in this state, or any other, as far as I know.

[Sgt>Stackem]

the gays started this whole thing off wrong. They should have never used the word marriage, they should have said union. The benifit gays can get by being in a union is that if one is ill the other can make choices for them. If they own property upon ones death the other can get the property without lenthly legal battles and lastly insurance. If they are married they cna get health insurance from thier spouse.
I dont care if you are gay or straight, its your choice just stay in your own lane! I would vote for gay unions and the gay groups should word it that way and they might have had more success.
Live and let live, judge not.................

[Trunks]

Originally Posted by Johnj

Why do a man and woman get married? To have and raise children. They get married so thier children can benifit from the union. It also helps to keep the number of street children down. Just as soon as you can show me a couple of gays that can have thier own children (and I'm not talking about using a surregate for any part of the reproduction process) then I might change my mind. Does this make me a homophobe? I don't think so. I could care less if you find some guys hairy ass attractive. You and your bud can go (Edit not in this post please) all you want. Go march in a gay pride parade, I won't even bother to watch. We still have laws that say you can't marry your dog or a goat. Or your sister. And we're a better place for those laws.

not sure if u are directing this at me or in general. If this is aimed at me, then, being in support of basic human rights doesnt make me gay. oOo:

Also, I define marriage as a union between two people who want to be together. It doesnt matter who those people are. If both want to be married, then they should have that right. And states should not be allowed to limit somebodys rights. Federal government should make sure of that.

[Pyro]

Well...conservatives and christians loved the way the world used to be....when all it was was wars, slavery, and poverty...where their was either rich or poor.

[ninty]

I find it hard to comprehend as well Trunks. Most European Countries and Canada are moving toward legalizing gay marriage, while it seems the US is dead set against it. Not only the government, but the people as well since I believe all the initial referendums to legalize gay marriage were turned down during the November election.

I suppose you could equate this to religion seemingly becoming more popular in the US, while religion is being rooted out in other countries. Or perhaps its traditionalist values. I'm not sure really, but there must be some difference between other western counties and the US. Anyone care to educate me on this?

[Coleman]

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":0e49c]the gays started this whole thing off wrong. They should have never used the word marriage, they should have said union. The benifit gays can get by being in a union is that if one is ill the other can make choices for them. If they own property upon ones death the other can get the property without lenthly legal battles and lastly insurance. If they are married they cna get health insurance from thier spouse.
I dont care if you are gay or straight, its your choice just stay in your own lane! I would vote for gay unions and the gay groups should word it that way and they might have had more success.
Live and let live, judge not.................[/quote:0e49c]I agree totally with this statement. I also agree with Johnj that I'm not a homophobe just because I don't support gay marriages.

I'm really getting sick of people (especially teens that grow up watching TRL and MTV 24/7) trying to be all "I support gays! Yey! I am progressing the human race! Yey! I'm a humanist! yey!"

I have NO problem with gay people. Well, that is not the case totally. I don't have any problems with gays that act normally. I'm sure alot of those "hidden gays" (the ones that act completely normal and you would think are straight) are pissed off at the fruity gay guys for ruining their reputation. The fruit pisses me off so much. I couldn't care any less if they want to make out with a man. Sure let them do it, but you don't have to be flaming about everything. This can be compared to the straight guys as well. The straight guys that try to act tough and macho for the ladies. I hate those "overly macho" guys. That's on the opposite side of things, but it is almost comparable.



EDIT: Woops, got part of my history outline in here eek: and added a sentence

[ninty]

Originally Posted by Coleman

I don't have any problems with gays that act normally.

Bingo. I found it.

Is it fair to say that the majority don't really have a problem with gay people being with each other, however they do feel that it is somehow wrong or abnormal to be gay, or its ok to be gay, but wrong to act gay?

How can we be so sure that being straight is the right way, and being gay is the wrong way? Yes, you can talk about pro creation and the like, and how if everyone was gay, we'd all die off and that’s why it isn't normal, but I don't believe that makes it not normal.

Some birds prefer other male birds as mates. There are many gay animals. Some humans prefer other males as mates. There are many gay humans. Is it abnormal?

I think if we all could accept gay people as being just as normal as straight people, then there wouldn't even be an argument about it.

[Coleman]

Originally Posted by ninty9

Bingo. I found it.

Is it fair to say that the majority don't really have a problem with gay people being with each other, however they do feel that it is somehow wrong or abnormal to be gay, or its ok to be gay, but wrong to act gay?

How can we be so sure that being straight is the right way, and being gay is the wrong way? Yes, you can talk about pro creation and the like, and how if everyone was gay, we'd all die off and that’s why it isn't normal, but I don't believe that makes it not normal.

Some birds prefer other male birds as mates. There are many gay animals. Some humans prefer other males as mates. There are many gay humans. Is it abnormal?

I think if we all could accept gay people as being just as normal as straight people, then there wouldn't even be an argument about it.

i thought all of those points that you made were already known/out there. I don't know if you're saying anything that is brilliant (i'm not down playing your post. I'm just saying i've definately heard that a few hundred times)

[ninty]

OK, well, I guess it was a mini revelation for me.

So is it fair to say gays aren't accepted as being normal?

"If your gay, thats ok, but you should be straight" type of thing?

[Johnj]

Dave, my comments were general in nature and not directed at you.
The word marriage (in whatever language) means a union between a man and a woman, for the purpose of propagation of the species. I'm sorry but two guys (or girls) who live together for companionship and financial security do not fit that definition. So that type of relationship needs to be described with a different word.
It is the states duty to limit the rights of its citizens. Otherwise anarchy rules dude.
The federal government is supposed to provide for national defense, regulate matters of commerce between the states, or if a state were to pass a law opposed to the Constitution or Bill of Rights. Other than that they are supposed to keep their noses out of the states business.
Pyro annoy:
I'm pretty sure that Americas moral values swing on a pendulum, like our politics. I'm amazed we are so far to the left morally, and to the right politically.

[Coleman]

Originally Posted by ninty9

OK, well, I guess it was a mini revelation for me.

So is it fair to say gays aren't accepted as being normal?

"If your gay, thats ok, but you should be straight" type of thing?

those were my personal thoughts. That shouldn't being considered when drafting a law or a bill to ban/support gay marriages. Like Johnj said, gays don't fit the description that is within a marriage. Let them have a union. I would guess probably around 80% of Americans wouldn't mind giving them civil unions. But when you start to mess with a Sacrament of religion, it kinda gets a little funky in the eyes of the American populace.

[ninty]

I can understand that persons of faith may have a hard time with it.


On a related note:
http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?S= ... v=3YeXYKlG