David Irving Jailed

Machette · **David Irving Jailed -** 02-20-2006, 06:18 PM

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArt ... IRVING.xml

I think this trial came at the right time in the whole freedom of speech debate over the cartoons causing massive protest in muslim countries..My question to you is, do you think David Irving has the right to deny the holocaust?

Stammer · 02-20-2006, 06:37 PM

Whether we like it or not, he has every right to say what he wants.

Eight Ace · 02-20-2006, 07:06 PM

Firstly I think even mentioning that mohammed cartoon rubbish in the same sentence as the holocaust is offensive, however if you insist,

I believe irving can say what he likes, but if he is arrogant enough to travel to a country that has laws against expressing that view and ends up in jail then LOL!

It'd be like me going to iran and telling eveyone mohammed must have been a paedo because he married a nine year old when he was nearly sixty, my views on freedom of speech (even when my statements are factual) would not stop me being torn to pieces.

Machette · 02-20-2006, 07:17 PM

[quote="Eight Ace":10834]Firstly I think even mentioning that mohammed cartoon rubbish in the same sentence as the holocaust is offensive, however if you insist,[/quote:10834]

It's on the same debate level, look at what that Iran paper is doing..having a contest on who can make a cartoon best on mocking the holocaust.

02-20-2006, 07:32 PM

[quote=Machette]

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Eight Ace":7092d

Firstly I think even mentioning that mohammed cartoon rubbish in the same sentence as the holocaust is offensive, however if you insist,

It's on the same debate level, look at what that Iran paper is doing..having a contest on who can make a cartoon best on mocking the holocaust.[/quote:7092d]

and this is a surprise?

if i made a cartoon mocking christian conservatives, they would retaliate against me.

Machette · 02-20-2006, 07:36 PM

The reasoning behind their decision to do so is to see just how far this freedom of speech argument can go.

02-20-2006, 07:38 PM

just because one country claims that it is a human right to have free speech doesnt mean that the whole world should obey it.

Machette · 02-20-2006, 07:40 PM

So you are against these muslim cartoons, that basically deface muslim cartoons?

Nyck · 02-20-2006, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acideyez

just because one country claims that it is a human right to have free speech doesnt mean that the whole world should obey it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnutella

democracy isn't for everyone

Machette · 02-20-2006, 07:44 PM

This thread is jumping all over the place...So most of you believe that irving should speak his words about how the holocaust didn't exist, and that gas chambers were never at auschwitz? Should not be restricted in any way?

02-20-2006, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machette

So you are against these muslim cartoons, that basically deface muslim cartoons?

i am not supporting the defacement of the holocaust, nor am i supporting the creation and escalation of the prophet Muhammad cartoon issue.

this whole thing is like a catch22...

edit:

Irving shouldn't be spreading lies. It is a well established fact that there were nazi death camps. even the arabs acknowlidge this, but their claim is that the jews used it to profit and gain Isreal.

edit 2:

Machette, i noticed you changed your sig..what gives ?

Nyck · 02-20-2006, 07:50 PM

I support the belief for man to be able to speak freely.

I also expect people to have some sense of intelligence when speaking against things that are proven fact and to have some sense of intelligence when doing something so stupid knowing full well that its going to incite unecessary problems.

I mean what benefit comes from defacing someones religion

ninty · 02-20-2006, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machette

This thread is jumping all over the place...So most of you believe that irving should speak his words about how the holocaust didn't exist, and that gas chambers were never at auschwitz? He should not be restricted in any way?

Absolutley not. In Canada we have the charter of rights and freedoms, our constitution. Now he was in another country, and I suppose their laws must be respected, however I do not agree with jailing this man for speaking what he wants to say. Censorship is never good. You don't have to listen to what he says if you don't want to.

I personally believe if Black panthers, KKK, Neo Nazis etc want to hold rallies and peaceful demonstrations there shouldn't be, and really, there is no law against such a thing. These people are allowed to ahev a voice just like you or me, and just because they believe something different doesn't, however much you disagree doesn't mean that they don't have a right to do so.

The belief that he should be censored because of his certain beliefs is really anti-democratic. There are basic freedoms that should not be infringed upon. This is one of them.

Machette · 02-20-2006, 07:58 PM

I know I'm throwing questions out, but this is a controversial subject...
Nyck by saying "I mean what benefit comes from defacing someones religion" can be used for the muslim cause..what benefit does come from defacing their religion? I personally never found the cartoons funny and many others I know didn't. What did we gain from these horrid cartoons? The reason I believe the muslims take these cartoons the wrong way is not to wage a jihad against the world, its just that they were made fun of at the wrong time. In the first world most of us have learnt about the holocaust and what it did, thus we are more open to debate about it then we used to be.

Also Acideyez, I changed it because I felt it criss-crossed some of my values on this debate.

c312 · 02-20-2006, 07:59 PM

a similar thing happened a while back in Skokie, Illinios I think. There was a big deal about the KKK rallying in a predominantly jewish area. The KKK was allowed to rally, but they didn't because they feared the backlash that would occur. It might have been Neo Nazis though.

I think he should certainly be allowed to express his views as according to the freedom of speech, but the problem is, not all countries have that freedom legally. A country has a right to not allow freedom of speech because of their sovereignty, so therefore, there rules should be respected. It's like marijuana laws. it may be legal to smoke in some countries, but if you bring it to the USA, you have to know that you aren't protected by a law that allows you the freedom to use it, just as this guy wasn't protected by a law to protect his freedom of speech.