â€œWhy does habeas corpus hate Americaâ€

ninty · **â€œWhy does habeas corpus hate Americaâ€ -** 10-11-2006, 09:31 AM

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Olberm ... Corpus.wmv

Stammer · **Re: â€œWhy does habeas corpus hate Americaâ€ -** 10-11-2006, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninty

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Olbermann-HabeusCorpus.wmv

Crooks and Liars has terrible linking, heres a better link.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Video ... _1011.html

And Ninty, don't you understand this is Pre-9/11 thinking in a post 9/11 world? We should trust the president, totally, absolutely, and blindly.

elstatec · 10-14-2006, 07:38 PM

SHH BE QUIET WE NEEDZ TO PASS THIS BILL DO NOT TALK ABOUT IT AS IT IZ MAKING THE HARM TO THE UNITED EMIRATES OF AMERICA.

PS THIS IS 4 SEPT 11 JUST TO MAKE YOU EXCEPT IT A BIT BETTERS.

TGB! · 10-19-2006, 04:47 PM

Have any of you read the law? Or know how constitutional challanges to laws occurs?

Short Hand · 10-20-2006, 11:10 AM

[quote="TGB!":75c98]Have any of you read the law? Or know how constitutional challanges to laws occurs?[/quote:75c98]

Yes they have. and saying they are stupid won't win you the arguement.

ninty · 10-20-2006, 04:50 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EA-LotX7SkA

Colonel · 10-20-2006, 05:53 PM

I couldn't watch it all. I think he makes some good points but the condescending tone got really annoying after awhile. K.O. should have stayed with Sportscenter. He was better at reading scores.

But like I said, he makes some good points. Although I disagree with Pres. Reagan's apology to the Japanese and I especially disagreed with paying reparations.

TGB! · 10-21-2006, 06:48 PM

[quote="Short Hand":99d8c][quote="TGB!":99d8c]Have any of you read the law? Or know how constitutional challanges to laws occurs?[/quote:99d8c]

Yes they have. and saying they are stupid won't win you the arguement.[/quote:99d8c]

Id never say that. You on the other hand are dumber than a sack of wet horse shit. . .

As for the knee-jerk responses to the law, reminds me of the same knee-jerk responses to the Patriot Act. . .

Read the law, and the titles/definitions it refers to and then get back to me. As far as Im concerned, its a great law. . .IF youre an American citizen.

1080jibber · 10-22-2006, 01:30 PM

[url:8e725]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5517942312906824233[/url:8e725]

heebee geebee

ninty · 10-22-2006, 01:33 PM

Edit, haha jibber, you just beat me.

Jonathan Turley teaches constitutional law at George Washington University.

http://www.law.gwu.edu/Faculty/profile.aspx?id=1738

[quote:e66b0]OLBERMANN: "I want to start by asking you about a specific part of this act that lists one of the definitions of an unlawful enemy combatant as, quote, 'a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a combatant status review tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the president or the secretary of defense.'

"Does that not basically mean that if Mr. Bush or Mr. Rumsfeld say so, anybody in this country, citizen or not, innocent or not, can end up being an unlawful enemy combatant?"

JONATHAN TURLEY: "It certainly does. In fact, later on, it says that if you even give material support to an organization that the president deems connected to one of these groups, you too can be an enemy combatant. And the fact that he appoints this tribunal is meaningless. You know, standing behind him at the signing ceremony was his attorney general, who signed a memo that said that you could torture people, that you could do harm to them to the point of organ failure or death. So if he appoints someone like that to be attorney general, you can imagine who he's going be putting on this board."

OLBERMANN: "Does this mean that under this law, ultimately the only thing keeping you, I, or the viewer out of Gitmo is the sanity and honesty of the president of the United States?"

TURLEY: "It does. And it's a huge sea change for our democracy. The framers created a system where we did not have to rely on the good graces or good mood of the president. In fact, Madison said that he created a system essentially to be run by devils, where they could not do harm, because we didn't rely on their good motivations. Now we must. And people have no idea how significant this is. What, really, a time of shame this is for the American system. What the Congress did and what the president signed today essentially revokes over 200 years of American principles and values.[/quote:e66b0]

Colonel · 10-22-2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninty

[quote:814cb]TURLEY: ... In fact, Madison said that he created a system essentially to be run by devils, where they could not do harm, because we didn't rely on their good motivations....

[/quote:814cb]

Madison also said:

â€œWeâ€™ve staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked future â€¦upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the ten commandments of God. The future success of America is not in the constitution, but in the laws of God upon which this constitution is founded.â€

Not really relevant to this discussion I guess, but it is ironic to me that the scholars and journalists quoting Madison for one purpose are the same ones who claim the Founding Fathers wanted an America that is in no way influenced by God and that want these United States to deny that the constitution was in no way influenced by the ten commandments.

TGB! · 10-22-2006, 07:08 PM

Olbermann is full of shit. Period. The law DOES NOT do away with Habeas Corpus for "anyone". It is VERY SPECEFIC on who will be denied this - Non-American citizens charged with, and found to be an enemy combatant by the tribunal.

So no, the above quoted (and oft-quoted in place of actual debate by those doing the quoting) KO remarks, are hyperbolized bullshit. Read the damn thing. If you have a problem with Non-American Citizens not having the right to HC, fine. Argue that. Dont argue that HC no longer exists in the war of terror, because it does.

Short Hand · 10-23-2006, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colonel

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninty

[quote:2b6ae]TURLEY: ... In fact, Madison said that he created a system essentially to be run by devils, where they could not do harm, because we didn't rely on their good motivations....

Madison also said:

â€œWeâ€™ve staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked future â€¦upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the ten commandments of God. The future success of America is not in the constitution, but in the laws of God upon which this constitution is founded.â€

Not really relevant to this discussion I guess, but it is ironic to me that the scholars and journalists quoting Madison for one purpose are the same ones who claim the Founding Fathers wanted an America that is in no way influenced by God and that want these United States to deny that the constitution was in no way influenced by the ten commandments.[/quote:2b6ae]

It was the 1700's, I am pretty sure everyone was quite religous in comparision to today. There is no way in hell they could have predicted what would become of the world. (Immigrants, coming with new values and such,) things change, Things update themselves, and such values can conflict with current national interests if they do not change as well. (Imagine if the Catholic church had the same mindset on the muslim world as it did back during the crusades !)