[imported_Fluffy_Bunny]

I've done a lot of thinking over the last few years & this is my verdict~

Look here lads I think this war is shit. I was in favour of taking out Saddam at the start but fk it there are more important things in life than wearing a fancy uniform & getting your nuts blown off. I know a lot of you guys in the States are quite conservative. You sing the national anthem a lot & have flags everywhere & are very proud of your country, there's nothing wrong with that but people must never forget that they are human first & nationality second- do not be blinded by outright patriotism in a quest for glory. Blighty in 1914 was very much like the USA is now. When the First World War was declared everyone signed up for no particular reason other than they were proud of their country. The result- 60,000 dead & wounded on the first day of the Somme & then in 1918 they decided to ask why they were fighting. The war started as a result of a number of nationally, patriotic, cazed power-blocks having such enormous armies, that the theory was no war would ever be fought because it would be so destructive no-one would dare consider it. Unfortunately the plan was bollocks! The death of some Austrian Duke that no-ones ever heard of was enough to spark if all off. With battles like Verdun & Paschendale, appropriately overlooked in the modern world, no wonder Chamberlain was anxious to avoid another war with HItler.

Though it may be hard to imagine, countries do not last forever, the Roman Empire came & went, so did the Egyptians, Greek & a million others.The USA & the West will eventually go the same way one day, it is inevitable that great powers come & go, that is the way of the world. Countries were never ethnic nor nationalistic, it is an 18th Century invention. England, as an example, is made up of Celts, Saxons, Romans, Jutes, French & God knows what else. Prior to the evolution of Man it was only inhabited by bugs & was part of Gondwanaland. In a million years time who will really care about the greatness of your country? One has to look at the wider picture, sure it may go down in history, but eventually everything is forgotten. We are but a speck of dust in the universe, we come this way only once & it is important to choose our purpose wisely.

I personally think it is important to remain happy & enjoy life to the full rather than go & fight a political war merely because people in authority tell us to. Someone designed those uniforms & medals & told us that they were important, the masses believe them & they appeal to invididual vanity. We all want to win the VC & the MOH so we can rub it in the faces of everyone we know. But if people die for their country & lay down everything, don't they all deserve the VC & MOH? Most of them didn't even stand a chance. You may look smart in a uniform & people will think you are brave, but what's new in war? Isn't war hell? Aren't men/women brave?

The fact is Iraq is not a righteous war, Iraq may have been anti-west but so are a million other places. We had more reason to invade Zimbabwe than Iraq but they don't have as much oil. If we did invade Zimbabwe don't you think the same thing might happen? Wouldn't Fox News be labelling the guys fighting against us terrorists? Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11, we undertook an illegal pre-emptive strike in the name of a poor pos intelligence report- which even had me duped at the time as I was pro war. It's not far off the shyt that Hitler did to invade Poland. Afghanistan on the other hand, I'm all for, that is where the terrorists are. That is where Al Queda are & they were the guys who were behind the attacks. I am currently serving in the Reserve of Her Majesties forces & if asked to go there I would fight with no feelings of doubt as to my mission. Iraq, on the other hand & prior to the war, harboured no terrorists. One cannot always choose which wars to fight in, but I'd much rather fight for a righteous war than the one in Iraq. World War Two I'd sign up for as it's a fight against facism/nazism & it was an honourable thing. Now the war in Iraq is all about oil, true there might be bad guys out there who hate us, but you could say the same thing about a lot of places. I can see some sense in taking out Iraq kus in 100 years or so the oil will be running out & the only other place left with a substantial supply is Russia. Ergo if the West still wants to be calling the shots & not be under the kind influence of those babushka bastards we have to act now & take the oil.

Call me selfish but I'd much rather live my own life than go out & die an obscure death from a roadside bomb in Iraq. How many people can actually name every single person who's lost their life in Iraq? How many people will remember them in 5 years time? I'd rather live my life shagging random women & partying. I also want to know what it's like to get married, I want to know what it's like to hold my first child & be with them on their first Christmas. This is how I want to live, it is selfish but it's an honest & simple ambition. I've read too many books about brave guys laying down their lives for pointless wars. I remember reading the book Chickenhawk & the helicopter pilot landed his helo in a hot LZ only for all the guys to run out yelling their war cries & get mown down by machine guns seconds later, all their hopes & dreams wiped out in an instant.

The real selfish people behind these wars are the oil barons- Oh shit! Doesn't Ms Rice have shares in Enron? Wasn't that political folly Rumsfield the head of a company that was to profit from Iraq? Iraq is best summed up as politically correct imperialism, exactly the same kind of war that Col from the U.S. Marines was going on about in the 1920s. Like I said, if I'm going to fight for any war it should be one to defend my country & it's liberty.

Just my 2p, I'm sorry if I offended anyone. If you must disagree with me, then rather than calling me a red, commie, son-bitch. State your terms & let us debate in a way of honour & let there be no animosity between us. I must also insist that I have the highest respect for all of those that are out there & serving.

[Vance]

I'm not sure what you're trying to acheive in this thread.

"The war in Iraq is for oil", wow, I don't think anyone's ever thought of that before.

"Don't you know the USA will someday be demolished", of course I do, it may be after we all die so what's the use.

"You're too patriotic with your flags and your blind patriotism", that's a pretty vague comment, and no I didn't sign up to die by a roadside bomb in Iraq. I think I look OK in service dress and I don't care about winning medals, too much paperwork. What's your suggestion? Not care about peoples' lives lost in combat? Let's take away Rememberance Day and Memorial Day then. Let's roll over your grandfather's war graves and pave the way for that new mini mall.

This thread is basically a re-hash of everything I've heard in the past 4 years. I wait for the day when the USA willingly steps down as a superpower and does not answer the call of all the world's problems. I wish we would leave South Korea and Japan, and Germany and England and Guam and Djibouti, and Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and Iraq and Afghanistan, Qatar and Cuba. I want to see China rise up and deal with it, and India become the evil facists who can do no good.

Because I'm tired of it too.

[c312]

lol @ nothing new.

[Nyck]

Originally Posted by c312

lol @ nothing new.

rofl ya, welcome to 2004

[Short Hand]

All I can really say is any forum member still in support of this war needs a SERIOUS FUCKING WAKEUP call. I know its hard to swallow it, but just say it... The war was a "wrong course of action".

[c312]

[quote="Short Hand":91fea]All I can really say is any forum member still in support of this war needs a SERIOUS FUCKING WAKEUP call. I know its hard to swallow it, but just say it... The war was a "wrong course of action".[/quote:91fea]

along with anybody who voted for Hillary Clinton.