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Canadian gun owners, your thoughts please
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Default Canadian gun owners, your thoughts please - 12-20-2002, 10:24 AM

Out of control
The Canadian government is under fire over the failure of a new national gun registry, reports Anne McIlroy from Ottawa

Monday December 16, 2002

Unlike Americans, the majority of Canadians believe in strict gun control laws.
A scathing report about the failure of a new national gun registry has prompted calls for the prime minister, Jean Chretien, to resign before the February 2004 date he has set for his retirement.

The report, which says the registry has cost 400 times more than it was supposed to and still isn't working properly, has re-ignited a debate over the best way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

It is an argument that has pitted rural Canadians against those who live in cities.

The gun registry was announced in 1995, the response of the new Liberal government to public outrage over the massacre of 14 female engineering students by a woman-hating gunman in Montreal.

The government said the registry wouldn't cost taxpayers much because licence fees would cover the operating costs of registering 7m guns. Instead, the bill is now £500m and rising.

The registry added a new, all-encompassing layer to gun control in Canada.

Handguns have been restricted for 70 years and must be registered, and permits are required to carry restricted weapons. The purchase of shotguns and rifles require a firearms acquisition certificate, which can't be obtained without a background check.

But the registry meant that every gun in Canada would have to be registered with the federal government by January 2003, even if they were purchased 50 years ago.

Many gun-owners, especially those in rural areas, were incensed. They argued the registry was not the best way to reduce crimes involving guns, because criminals aren't likely to take the time to fill out the forms and mail in the licensing fee.

An aggressive campaign against the gun registry was mounted. At one demonstration, protesters picked up the car carrying the justice minister, Allan Rock, the architect of the plan, and shook it like a can of peanuts.

Mr Rock, a long-time contender to replace Mr Chretien, earned himself the enmity of rural voters with his plan, and that was before the news that the registry was the worst case of overspending Canada's auditor general had ever seen.

It seems the government underestimated how difficult a job it would be get Canadians to voluntarily register guns they may have had in their basements for years, and had to spend millions on advertising campaigns.

There are still an estimated 2m guns unaccounted for, a significant number.

The government also wasted millions on a new computer system, but kept the problems with the registry a secret.

"The issue here is not gun control," said the auditor general, Sheila Fraser, in a damning report. "And it's not even astronomical cost overruns, although those are serious. What's really inexcusable is that parliament was in the dark."

Fortunately for Mr Rock, who is currently the industry minister, he didn't oversee the implementation of his registry, and he wasn't the one who hid its skyrocketing price from parliament. That was his successor.

But as it turns out, the prime minister himself knew of the cost overruns and didn't take any action.

The fiasco has left many commentators questioning Mr Chretien's ability to govern. He has always offered Canadians cautious but competent government, but now, with his retirement a little over a year away, he appears to be loosing control.

He had to withdraw a motion for more funding for the gun registry for fear it would be defeated by his own MPs. He has promised them he will fix the problems with the registry, but it may be difficult to restore public confidence in the policy.

Canadians support gun control, but they don't support wasting millions of dollars on a gun registry that may not do any good.

Email
amcilroy@globeandmail.ca
  
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Default 12-20-2002, 11:15 AM

i had to sell my grandfathers 22 magnum revolver when i moved to canada. it sucks
  
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Default 12-20-2002, 11:30 AM

I got guns


  
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Default 12-20-2002, 12:49 PM

I know Im not canadian but I have to comment anyway. The cost of the registry database has always been known. It has been debated, discussed and argued in cananda and elsewhere. It is no secret that the numbers that the anti-gun lobby publisizes have always been criminally inaccurate, but whatever it takes to get your way I guess.
  
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Default 12-20-2002, 01:05 PM

I am not Canadian either but I must spout off on this one:

In the Western US there are many cases of bears, mountain lions, lynxes, deer, etc. invading people's yards. I am quite sure that western Canada is no different than Oregon or Washington in this regard, hell even here in Kansas we had a deer stomp through our garden at night.
If my kids, dog, cat etc. are being attacked by a dangerous animal I prefer having an AK-47 or a Tommy Gun over a sharp stick.

And as far as crime is concerned, maybe in the Eastern cities the cops can come fast enough to help, but in more isolated Western communities you are better off relying on Smith & Wesson for your protection.

*note: this is the opinion of one who considers himself a moderate DEMOCRAT, not a conservative gun nut.
(actually I'm a gun nut who really doesn't care much for either party)
  
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Default 12-20-2002, 02:22 PM

So are you asking about how much Jean Chrétien is an idiot, or what we think about a gun registry?

I guess I’ll tell you both. The first one is simple. Jean Chrétien is an idiot. Especially lately. He signed the Kyoto Accord without basically doing what the people of this country wanted. I guarantee you ¾ of this country had doubts about the accord. He gave no time for Canadians to debate and went ahead and signed it. They have no idea how much this is going to cost our economy or how many jobs it will cost. That s just one example.

Want another? OK, flash back to 1993. When he first came to power the Prime Minister before him had signed a contract for new SeaKing helicopters for our Frigates. The SeaKings were built in the 60’s and were already past their life expectance. The first thing Jean Chrétien did when he got into office was cancel the deal and pay a $500,000 fine. How stupid is that. Now, they’re looking to sign a new contract for the helicopters because they know they won’t last much longer. People keep dying flying the damn things. So essentially they wasted half a million dollars in 1993 to push the date back 10 years.

Another example or are you getting tired of them? I could go on for hours. How about the disbandment of the famous CAR (Canadian Airborne Regiment)? After Somalia and the killing of the two kids at the Canadian camp, the government tried to cover it up. When it essentially got out to the public the government disbanded the whole unit. Good way to solve problems. This government has no freaking clue as to what it’s doing it’s not even funny. But it will never change unless you can convince 10 million Ontarians to vote Canadian Alliance, but we all know that is not going to happen. Think Paul Martin will be any better? Think again.

Now onto the gun control topic. Another stupid move by the government. The overall goal is to keep the guns off the street and out of the hands of criminals. That is what all governments want to do and I have no problem with that. However, the government here went totally the wrong way with it. A gun registry will not do anything to keep guns off the street or guns out of the hands of criminals. And the fact that the project ballooned to 1 or 2 billion dollars is out outrageous. The government initially said it would only cost a few hundred million. But even if it did, it wouldn’t do anything. You would have people that like to hunt (and believe me, it is harder and more expensive than ever to hunt here. So much red tape) having to pay out of their ass for this stupid thing. Then you have people like me and my father. I believe there are about 7 guns in my house right now. 4 rifles 2 shotguns and one revolver from the 1800’s which was my dad’s dads. Do you think any of those are registered? (I hope the government isn’t reading this). Anyway, my dad gave up. He used to go hunting a lot. We have deer heads and peasants in the house from way back when you could actually go hunting without too much cost or trouble. All this registry does is keep the good people who are law abiding citizens in the governments view, but it does nothing to capture criminals. It may stop registered guns going to criminals, but it won’t stop unregistered ones from going to them. And like the article said, I highly doubt criminals are going to register their weapons. I have a friend who still hunts without having his guns registered. He has a licence and all that and when he goes he slips the ranger some money if he is stopped. He’s never had a problem and he’s an avid hunter.

Anyway this system is a total waste of taxpayer money. I guarantee you none of my guns will be registered. They’ll stay in the basement. If you want to talk about more wasted money try to find an article on some document a government paid for, it cost millions of dollars, and no one knows where the damn thing is. How freaking unorganized can you be? They pay for something, get it, lose it, and essentially waste millions of taxpayer dollars. It’s outrageous. And this happens everyday.
  
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Default 12-20-2002, 03:45 PM

i agree with the strict gun laws, i dont want this to turn itno the states where you can probly walk into a bar with $100 & buy a gun in 10min.
  
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Default 12-20-2002, 05:04 PM

[quote="Sgt Stryker":d23aa]I am not Canadian either but I must spout off on this one:

In the Western US there are many cases of bears, mountain lions, lynxes, deer, etc. invading people's yards. I am quite sure that western Canada is no different than Oregon or Washington in this regard, hell even here in Kansas we had a deer stomp through our garden at night.
If my kids, dog, cat etc. are being attacked by a dangerous animal I prefer having an AK-47 or a Tommy Gun over a sharp stick.

And as far as crime is concerned, maybe in the Eastern cities the cops can come fast enough to help, but in more isolated Western communities you are better off relying on Smith & Wesson for your protection.

*note: this is the opinion of one who considers himself a moderate DEMOCRAT, not a conservative gun nut.
(actually I'm a gun nut who really doesn't care much for either party)[/quote:d23aa]

yeah you see, we are allowed to have registered hunting rifles etc.. but I for one would never feel safe where a person can own an AK-47 or a thompson legally. Yes we do have cougars even here in victoria but we do our best one, to capture them before any harm can be done to the animal or to people, and two, to make sure the people know about it and know what area to stay away from.

I used to walk the train tracks to go to school (wich nearly got me hit a few times and wasnt allowed but meh) and I found out that there had been a cougar sighting in that area so for about a week i took a different route and soon enough the cougar had been tranqed and re-located into a much less populated area. No need for AK-47's.

The fact is in america you don't have freedom of speech because should you say the wrong thing to the wrong person they are legally allowed to have a gun, and then you say something they dont like they kill you.. OH but you can blame that on anger management issues. Well the fact is ya wouldnt be dead if the SOB didn't have a fuckin gun.

I'd sooner pay more taxes then let the scum of canada have guns. It's bad enough you americans have them. (And you wonder why we take away your guns at the border?)
  
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Default Gosh... - 12-21-2002, 04:10 AM

I love when people talk about stuff they have NO IDEA of wtf they are talking about.


Contrary to popular belief, it is legal to own guns in Canada. The Criminal Code of Canada classifies firearms as being non restricted, restricted, or prohibited firearms. Common hunting rifles and shotguns are non-restricted firearms. Handguns are restricted. By January 2003, all guns be registered. Restricted weapons require more rigorous registration and licensing. Fully automatic weapons, sawed-off shotguns and so on, are prohibited.
Canada limits possession of handguns to collectors, target shooters and those who can demonstrate a need of guns to protect their lives.

Dont cry because the US has more freedom and better water, than you do. Besides, more people get killed from stabbinga than being shot. So you cant carry a knife either?

I think the real reason WE have more gun freedom is to keep you Canadians up North, where you belong.
  
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Default 12-21-2002, 12:39 PM

hake:
  
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Default 12-22-2002, 01:03 AM

BrutalCarnage


I think your the one who has no Fuckin idea what you are talking about...I WOULD go off about how many ways Canadas economy is better than yours, but then I would sink to your level...Also if you had half a brain in your head you would realize that we are so nervous about this because YOUR KIDS ARE RUNNING INTO SCHOOLS WITH GUNS, killing classmates,teachers etc. Lastly we DO allow guns (we have alot of guns) but you need to take what seems to be a stupid amount of tests etc, the main reason being we dont need more death.[/i]
  
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Default 12-22-2002, 01:09 AM

Heh, I love guns; they put Darwin's theories into practice.
  
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Default 12-22-2002, 02:07 AM

[quote:27f12]I WOULD go off about how many ways Canadas economy is better than yours[/quote:27f12]

why is our dollar worth more than yours. hmm yes the better economy. i see now.
  
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yeah
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Default yeah - 12-22-2002, 02:36 AM

I'd buy that for a dollar, or in Canadian $1.64.
  
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Default 12-22-2002, 08:53 AM

Hey Jaizen, are you spelling capitalism wrong in your sig on purpose? Just curious.
  
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