Iraq

Stammer · **Iraq -** 08-26-2005, 10:59 AM

With all this talk about pulling the troops out and what not, how do you all feel about what should be done with regards to the troops in Iraq?

rdeyes · 08-26-2005, 12:03 PM

i say we increase the number of troops in iraq and seal the borders so no more jihadists come in thru syria and iran.

Stammer · 08-26-2005, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdeyes

i say we increase the number of troops in iraq and seal the borders so no more jihadists come in thru syria and iran.

I agree, we need more soldiers to train the Iraqi army and police. Let them handle the insurgets while Americans shut off the borders with a strict shoot to kill policy.

KTOG · 08-26-2005, 02:09 PM

Let them do what they want while I devise a plan to move to Mars.

Madmartagen · 08-26-2005, 02:16 PM

you cant really win unless you kill all the bad guys. there is probably an unlimited amount of recruits ready to fight americans, so digging in wont help. even if you manage to keep them out of iraq, that means they are still in iran, syria, lebanon, africa, etc. if we hole up in iraq with our troops, whos going to fight the ones that arent in iraq? face it dudes, our army's fucked.

GordonHall · 08-26-2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madmartagen

you cant really win unless you kill all the bad guys. there is probably an unlimited amount of recruits ready to fight americans, so digging in wont help. even if you manage to keep them out of iraq, that means they are still in iran, syria, lebanon, africa, etc. if we hole up in iraq with our troops, whos going to fight the ones that arent in iraq? face it dudes, our army's fucked.

This isn't like Vietnam where they enjoy a broad base of support in the country, letters have shown that Iraqi insurgents have become somewhat restless, some insurgents have even begun to fight foreign fighters.

Madmartagen · 08-26-2005, 03:08 PM

have you seen the show 'over there?' there was this episode where that arab-american soldier tells his buddies that this war is to the islamic students like woodstock was to the hippies (or something like that). the world has so much coverage and media influence on us and other countries, that it will virtually guarantee an unlimited amount of insurgents. we can kill/capture all we want in iraq, but when you go out, there are much more places with willing terrorists.

GordonHall · 08-26-2005, 03:23 PM

[quote:5590d]ave you seen the show 'over there?' there was this episode where that arab-american soldier tells his buddies that this war is to the islamic students like woodstock was to the hippies [/quote:5590d]

Oh please God, don't use that C- show as a primary source.

Trunks · 08-26-2005, 03:40 PM

fact is, madmartagen is right. As long as the United States, and its allies continue to act the way they are doing, they can expect lots of resistance fighters making it into the country, to fight against them. It is impossible to completely seal off borders. And if you did seal off borders, Iraqis would feel as if the coaltion is trapping them, which could prompt some to join the fight against the America and its allies. Many muslim extremists see the invasion of Iraq as an attack on Islam, and although that may be far from the truth, that is the way they think. You can't destroy an ideal, and the fact is they are fighting for an ideal, for something they believe in. You can't win against guerilla tactics/in a guerilla war. And if you wipe out all your enemies, then more will rise to take their place, because the coalition killed their fathers, uncles, sons, cousins, brothers, etc. The situation in Iraq is a lot like the situation faced by the Soviet Union when they invaded Afghanistan. You just can't win. I say withdraw as soon as possible. Because even if you spend more time training more Iraqi police, that still doesn't change the fact that the minute we leave, civil war will break out. The only difference is, you can save Coalition lives if we leave now.

GordonHall · 08-26-2005, 04:04 PM

[quote:6330a]It is impossible to completely seal off borders. And if you did seal off borders, Iraqis would feel as if the coaltion is trapping them, which could prompt some to join the fight against the America and its allies.[/quote:6330a]

Apparently you don't understand what sealing off the borders is. It means tightening security to the extreme to scan for threats. There are vasts parts of the Iraqi border that are unpatrolled because they don't have the troops to do so.

[quote:6330a]You can't win against guerilla tactics/in a guerilla war.[/quote:6330a]

Yes you can, it is much more difficult, but it still is possible to subdue the enemy.

[quote:6330a]The situation in Iraq is a lot like the situation faced by the Soviet Union when they invaded Afghanistan.[/quote:6330a]

That's a farce at best, the reason the Afghans didn't get rolled like a cheap whore is because the Americans and British were pouring millions of dollars in cash and armory to keep the Soviets out, as well as send units that covertly trained the Afghans.

You leave now that country doesn't go to civil war, it goes to complete anarchy.

KTOG · 08-26-2005, 04:05 PM

Lets send 100,000 of more of our men to "seal" the boarders. These guys will get passed in 10 more years, this war will not be over in our life time.

Coleman · 08-26-2005, 05:08 PM

taking immediate action by pulling all of the troops out would be very bad. We should stay there, but continue to train more Iraqi groups to do more of the poice work.

ninty · 08-26-2005, 05:53 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/24/troops.iraq/

Rumsfeld said troop levels should be down to around 66,000 by the end of 2006. It was supposed to be around there after the invasion was over. Oops. Three years later.

Iraq on brink of meltdown

Anyway, the US has royaly fucked over Iraq, it's government and its people. Their pretty much in the midst of a civil war. Nothing is going to remedy the situation. Send more troops or leave, it doesn't matter. The country is fucked for a good long time.

Trunks · 08-26-2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordonHall

[quote:e5f11]It is impossible to completely seal off borders. And if you did seal off borders, Iraqis would feel as if the coaltion is trapping them, which could prompt some to join the fight against the America and its allies.

Apparently you don't understand what sealing off the borders is. It means tightening security to the extreme to scan for threats. There are vasts parts of the Iraqi border that are unpatrolled because they don't have the troops to do so.

[quote:e5f11]You can't win against guerilla tactics/in a guerilla war.[/quote:e5f11]

Yes you can, it is much more difficult, but it still is possible to subdue the enemy.

[quote:e5f11]The situation in Iraq is a lot like the situation faced by the Soviet Union when they invaded Afghanistan.[/quote:e5f11]

That's a farce at best, the reason the Afghans didn't get rolled like a cheap whore is because the Americans and British were pouring millions of dollars in cash and armory to keep the Soviets out, as well as send units that covertly trained the Afghans.

You leave now that country doesn't go to civil war, it goes to complete anarchy.[/quote:e5f11]I understand what sealing borders is. Perhaps you did not udnerstand me. I meant you cannot completely seal borders, because no matter how much you tighten security, etc, people, and weapons will get in the country. And if you tried to close off borders completely(aka, not allow any tourists, etc, to gain entry to iraq, and not allow Iraqi's to leave) then that would only lead to more hatred of coalition forces. And again, no you can't win a guerilla war. For every insurgent who dies, ten more rise to take his place. Every person you kill, gives the enemy another reason to want to kill you. They are fighting for an ideal. You cannot destroy or udnermine that ideal through millitary means alone. Oh yes, I am aware of the fact that the Afgans recieved extensive assitance from America, and the Afghans technically lost the war early on, with their cities and capitals being captured by soviet forces. However, for years the Afghans continued to fight a guerrilla war against the soviets, and it slowly wore away at the nations will to fight. So the situation is very comparable to Iraq, because I am sure Iraqi insurgents are getting financial aid in the millions from terrorists and terrorist organizations. And I am sure terrorist organizations are training soldiers specifically to be deployed as insurgents in Iraq.

Poseidon · 08-26-2005, 05:57 PM

We cant just pull our troops out. We started this war, we said we'll help until the country is established. Iraq is far from establised, I am very against us invading Iraq but yet i still believe we cannot begin to withdraw our troops (at least within the next couple of years).