We're all going to die from radiation - Page 2

Tripper · 10-30-2006, 11:05 PM

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Originally Posted by c312

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Originally Posted by Tripper

Nuclear weapons rid you off the list of countries that are likely to be invaded by americans.

Their pursuance of testing nuclear weapons is what is making everyone not like them. I don't buy the argument that they think that the US is randomly going to invade them so they decided to get nukes just in case.

The U.S has had pressure on North Korea for longer than they've had a threatening nuclear program, and for plenty of other reasons.

c312 · 10-31-2006, 01:05 PM

including? their egregious human rights violations? their quest to get nuclear weapons years ago?

I mean those are good reasons, but in what ways has the US threatened NK for anything other than their attempts to develop a nuclear weapon? I'm honestly asking for examples because if there are any, I'd love to hear about them, it might actually change my opinion.

Tripper · 10-31-2006, 01:14 PM

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Originally Posted by c312

including? their egregious human rights violations? their quest to get nuclear weapons years ago?

I mean those are good reasons, but in what ways has the US threatened NK for anything other than their attempts to develop a nuclear weapon? I'm honestly asking for examples because if there are any, I'd love to hear about them, it might actually change my opinion.

Without nukes, North Korea are easily bullied around. With nukes they're not. If they get nukes as soon as possible, they skip what Iran is going through, or has just been through, and they definitely won't suffer an invasion like Iraq has been through.

Like I've been saying, in Kim Jong Il's brain, this is strategically sound....and if I were a nutbar dictator, I'd do the same thing.

Sgt>Stackem · 10-31-2006, 01:17 PM

KJI is delusional, the US isnt going to invade or should I say wasnt going to invade. Whats up with these whacked dictators? They all seem to think everyone is out to get them

c312 · 10-31-2006, 01:18 PM

ok, I guess you're right. someone as insane as him would probably not recognize the circular logic.

Madmartagen · 10-31-2006, 09:22 PM

i think that him developing nuclear weapons is perfectly logical. he wants the US off his ass, and if he has his own set of bombs, thats a DETERRENT. if i were him, i would do the same thing.

c312 · 10-31-2006, 10:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Madmartagen

i think that him developing nuclear weapons is perfectly logical. he wants the US off his ass, and if he has his own set of bombs, thats a DETERRENT. if i were him, i would do the same thing.

but the US is only on his ass because he is trying to get the bomb, that's the whole circular logic of it all.

Madmartagen · 10-31-2006, 10:33 PM

yes thats true, but look at it from an objective standpoint. if you want a more powerful nation to get off your case, you either bargain with him or become just as strong as him. N Korea has demands that we will not accept, and N Korea will not accept us/west telling him what to do. N Korea looks at the two other "axis of evil" nations and sees Iraq get invaded and sees Iran get a ton of international scrutiny. N Korea thinks "if i had nukes, they wouldnt be able to do shit."

solution for N Korea and Iran is to get nukes so that we leave them alone.

whether you feel safe with a nuclear iran or N Korea is irrelevant because you are American and have a subjective point of view. they are both doing what they think is necessary to avoid being pushed into a spot they dont want to be.

c312 · 10-31-2006, 10:35 PM

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Originally Posted by Madmartagen

they are both doing what they think is necessary to avoid being pushed into a spot they dont want to be.

which also happens to create potential threats to international security.

Jin-Roh · 11-01-2006, 04:51 AM

I think Jim is just lonely.

Madmartagen · 11-01-2006, 11:03 AM

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Originally Posted by c312

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Originally Posted by Madmartagen

they are both doing what they think is necessary to avoid being pushed into a spot they dont want to be.

which also happens to create potential threats to international security.

yes thats true. i dont trust N Korea with nukes, but im not freaking out about him going on a rampage and launching bombs everywhere. I think N Korea wants nukes just to have them so they can flex their muscles and keep their autonomy. the US has not invaded or attacked a country with nuclear weapons.

Vance · 11-02-2006, 04:54 PM

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Originally Posted by Madmartagen

the US has not invaded or attacked a country with nuclear weapons.

That's not a very prudent statement, there are only 8 countries in the world with nuclear weapons, and we're either allies or neutral with them (except NK of course). And nukes haven't been around for very long.

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Originally Posted by Madmartagen

i dont trust N Korea with nukes, but im not freaking out about him going on a rampage and launching bombs everywhere.

W-wh-aa? What is this reffering to?

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Originally Posted by Tripper

Without nukes, North Korea are easily bullied around. With nukes they're not.

Trust me, if you knew about NK/US relations beginning after the war, you'd know that they've done enough bullying for the both of us.

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Originally Posted by Tripper

Whats so hard to believe about you guys doing the same thing to the Koreans?

I stand by my belief that we would be on the defensive in any future war between the two Koreas. Unless something absolutely terrible happened that we had no choice but to stop them, there'd be no way that we would invade.

Tripper · 11-02-2006, 08:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Vance

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Originally Posted by Madmartagen

the US has not invaded or attacked a country with nuclear weapons.

That's not a very prudent statement, there are only 8 countries in the world with nuclear weapons, and we're either allies or neutral with them (except NK of course). And nukes haven't been around for very long.
Yes the U.S surely has an amazing relationship with China. You're neutral with some of those countries probably for the very reason Madmartagen is getting at...Because they have nukes, which deems a forceful action totally void because of potential repricusions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madmartagen

i dont trust N Korea with nukes, but im not freaking out about him going on a rampage and launching bombs everywhere.

W-wh-aa? What is this reffering to?

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Originally Posted by Tripper

Without nukes, North Korea are easily bullied around. With nukes they're not.

Trust me, if you knew about NK/US relations beginning after the war, you'd know that they've done enough bullying for the both of us.
When I say they're being bullied I mean, on the international stage....and I'm sorry if, as an american, you were offended by that and felt obliged to target that irrelevant point - But its just not what I was getting at. I'm not laying blame here. I'm just looking through the eyes of a madman, a.k.a Kim Jong Il, and arguing why he made the decision to press on with his nuclear program. My point still stands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripper

Whats so hard to believe about you guys doing the same thing to the Koreans?

I stand by my belief that we would be on the defensive in any future war between the two Koreas. Unless something absolutely terrible happened that we had no choice but to stop them, there'd be no way that we would invade.
Okay, so what happened in Iraq that was absolutely terrible, and prompted a full-force invasion, that isn't going on in North Korea? Look at it from the North Koreans point of view to see what we're seeing.

Doctor Duffy · 11-02-2006, 09:27 PM

I have water and gas masks in my basement, see you fuckers in 2001

Vance · 11-03-2006, 12:11 AM

I think the statement that we're only neutral with nuclear countries just because they have nukes isn't very strong, in my opinion. I mean, we're nuetral (pretty much allied) with Germany...yeah we fought them in two world wars, but things change. Sides change...basing that just off of nuclear weapons is a tad too shallow for me.

We don't have bad relations with China. We've been working with them alot for years about NK, plus our goals of nuclear proliferation and anti-terrorism are on the same level.

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Originally Posted by Tripper

Okay, so what happened in Iraq that was absolutely terrible, and prompted a full-force invasion, that isn't going on in North Korea?

You're right about that - but if you notice, other than the UNSC resolutions, we really haven't been blowing the horn on NK. We've dealt with their shit for 50 years, and we're doing the exact same stuff we've been doing, since before they had a nuclear capability. Trust me. It's not about the nukes.

And we've been bullied on the international stage by them too. Research the USS Pueblo, the axe murder incident, or the interception of the RC-135 reconnaissance aircraft. Those are some of the bigger ones.