Back to the subject.

This is what I believe:

The lives of Millions, perhaps even Billions of people are in the hands of Bush....sadly. Why? The world's economy is in a bad situation. ALL AROUND THE WORLD not just America. If Bush goes to war with Iraq the economy will go from bad to worse and millions of ordinary people even Americans will be affected by this. The only people who will benefit from this is the rich who run the major corporations.
So its time for us to think, will this war benefit me and my family or are the powerful and coporations just trying to reap a profit from our misfortunes?

[1080jibber]

[quote="Low spark":078ca]

Originally Posted by 1080jibber

i dont think so, this whole iraq thing is about OIL and thats it

It does help that Bush is an oil man. But thats not the reason anymore. He has gone over the edge, I don't think he is in touch with reality. He is'nt acting like a leader of the most powerful country in the world, he's acting like a bully in a school yard that thinks some kid hid his lunch money from him.

Of course he is probably not out of touch with reality. I'm sure Cheney and the oil companies make sure he is fed their version of reality.[/quote:078ca]


man, on cnn this morning they said that saddam might blow up his own oil fields if the US attacks, so whats the fist thing the US is going to do is take over the oil fields, ohhh and why would saddam blow up his one big source of income

[BallisticWookie]

You guys must have oil on your brains or something, because thats all I've heard in this thread....oil, oil, oil......oil, oil...oil. I mean COME ON !! You cant honestly think that getting rid of Saddam is a bad idea ? Or do you ? He is an A grade fucking asshole, and you guys would have this (inevitable...sadly) war called of just because you think the Iraqi oil is the main objective ? Pffffft, give me a fucking break. If I told you half the things my cousin told me after he got back from the Gulf (which he shouldnt have told me anything), you would be having second thoughts.....one thing I can tell you is that he DOES have chemical and biological warfare agents over there. The major factor in all this is that the UN Inspectors HAVE'NT found anything. Because he has moved the agents and warheads to unknown bunkers or shipped them out of the country to neighbouring allies...Syria, Iran, so on...

Do I like the prospect of war ?? No I dont. War is Goddamn waste of life and a tragedy. But if getting rid of Saddam means that there is one less likely potentional asshole out there who is quite capable of launching some pretty fucked up contagions into our atmosphere than it's a step in the right direction.

And I have a question to Low Spark regarding this quote:

[quote:f16bc] /snip/ *take away our freedoms(homeland defense)* /snip/ [/quote:f16bc]

Tell me, please EXACTLY what freedoms have been taken away from you since the so called "Homeland Defence" has been setup ? What exactly about this initiative which is supposedly to make your United States of America a safer place to live in, degenerated your lifestyle in one of oppression in which you cant do anything without being watched or told what you can and cant do ?? Please elaborate.....

When it's all said and done, you all have your rights to voice your overtaxed conspiracy theories regarding oil in Iraq as the major objective in the "war". Will President Bush take the oil ?? I doubt there's any question to that, I mean..who wouldnt !! But dont give me some crap about this war only being about oil, because that's complete bullshit, and if you guys only had an inkling (and thats all I got out of my cousin) of an idea about how volatile the situation is over there you wouldnt be sprouting this crap and sullying everything members of my family and others have had to go through to make the lives of everyday inconsiderate and ignorant pricks like most you, lives safer. Believe me when I say, Saddam is a cold, cruel and despicable bastard, and the world will be a better place when he is gone, not MUCH better for us perhaps, but considerably better for quite a few hundred thousand/million people over there at least.

EDIT: Dont be too offended if my views differ from your's. I'm a little "drunk" at the moment, so this may have come out a little too personally.....

[Pfc.Green]

[quote="redhawk_six":34328]Damnit, not more of this Canada VS. America bull!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! mad: [/quote:34328]

Dont worry there really is'nt much in the way of Canada Vs. America flames anymore, its really just CSF_Jaizen Vs. anyone has a even a little in the way of a brain.

[Pfc.Green]

Originally Posted by BallisticWookie

Tell me, please EXACTLY what freedoms have been taken away from you since the so called "Homeland Defence" has been setup ? What exactly about this initiative which is supposedly to make your United States of America a safer place to live in, degenerated your lifestyle in one of oppression in which you cant do anything without being watched or told what you can and cant do ?? Please elaborate.....

Well said, the only thing that has changed so far as I can see (in my own life) is that I had to wait maybe an extra oh.. half-hour to get on a plane. And I seriously doubt it will get any "worse" And of course people are going to say, "but what about that thing where they moniter everything you do on your computer or what you buy...so on" well kids that has never be enacted and most likely never will, why? politics, the approval ratings for whoever would do this would dip so low he'd probably have to resign. Naw nothings really changed, that were all looking over our shoulders or seeing if our phones are bugged...so on.

[Low spark]

Originally Posted by BallisticWookie

You guys must have oil on your brains or something, because thats all I've heard in this thread....oil, oil, oil......oil, oil...oil. I mean COME ON !! You cant honestly think that getting rid of Saddam is a bad idea ? Or do you ? He is an A grade fucking asshole, and you guys would have this (inevitable...sadly) war called of just because you think the Iraqi oil is the main objective ? Pffffft, give me a fucking break. If I told you half the things my cousin told me after he got back from the Gulf (which he shouldnt have told me anything), you would be having second thoughts.....one thing I can tell you is that he DOES have chemical and biological warfare agents over there. The major factor in all this is that the UN Inspectors HAVE'NT found anything. Because he has moved the agents and warheads to unknown bunkers or shipped them out of the country to neighbouring allies...Syria, Iran, so on...

Do I like the prospect of war ?? No I dont. War is Goddamn waste of life and a tragedy. But if getting rid of Saddam means that there is one less likely potentional asshole out there who is quite capable of launching some pretty fucked up contagions into our atmosphere than it's a step in the right direction.

And I have a question to Low Spark regarding this quote:

[quote:87936] /snip/ *take away our freedoms(homeland defense)* /snip/

Tell me, please EXACTLY what freedoms have been taken away from you since the so called "Homeland Defence" has been setup ? What exactly about this initiative which is supposedly to make your United States of America a safer place to live in, degenerated your lifestyle in one of oppression in which you cant do anything without being watched or told what you can and cant do ?? Please elaborate.....

When it's all said and done, you all have your rights to voice your overtaxed conspiracy theories regarding oil in Iraq as the major objective in the "war". Will President Bush take the oil ?? I doubt there's any question to that, I mean..who wouldnt !! But dont give me some crap about this war only being about oil, because that's complete bullshit, and if you guys only had an inkling (and thats all I got out of my cousin) of an idea about how volatile the situation is over there you wouldnt be sprouting this crap and sullying everything members of my family and others have had to go through to make the lives of everyday inconsiderate and ignorant pricks like most you, lives safer. Believe me when I say, Saddam is a cold, cruel and despicable bastard, and the world will be a better place when he is gone, not MUCH better for us perhaps, but considerably better for quite a few hundred thousand/million people over there at least.

EDIT: Dont be too offended if my views differ from your's. I'm a little "drunk" at the moment, so this may have come out a little too personally.....[/quote:87936]

How can one be offended by differing views, I do agree Saddam is an evil person. I disagree with him being a threat to our national security, I do believe if we invade Iraq the damage to the US and our freedoms will be far greater in the long run than if Saddam was left to rot in Iraq...


In asnwer to you question about what freedoms have I personallyl lost. None as of today. But I believe that the Departent of Homland Security is potenially on of the most dangerous department ever created by the American government. It gives to much power to the executive branch. Which means I that it could be used to control the American people that don't agree whom ever the President is at the time.

The real problem is not the short term, it's the long term. In the not to distant future I could see someone like me being detained, because of what I have posted.....

Sorry but now it's time for some cut and paste.

The centralization of all federal domestic security forces into a single agency parallels another major action by the Pentagon, which in April won White House approval to set up a new four-star command, dubbed the Northern Command, covering the North American continent. For the first time in US history, all troops, planes and ships on the territory of the United States and Canada will be under the command of a single officer—an action always rejected in the past, even during World War II, for fear of its dangerous implications for civilian control of the military and democratic governance.


I know if I go on with my life, I probably won't be affected and I can live in peace.

[Sicilian_Summers]

Now, I do agree with many of you on certain parts of your arguements.

Personally, I do not think this war is about oil, I do not think it is Dubya's personal vendetta (although it could be..), I think it is about Saddam's threat to Isreal, and indirectly to the United States and possibly even the whole world.

The amount of UN inspectors present in Iraq is hardly enough to do a thorough search. Seeing as how Iraq has had years to hide their weapons or place them somewheres else, it even further adds to the inaccuracy of the inspection.

It's more then likely Saddam HAS the weapons, or MIGHT develop them soon. And if he does have them, or when he gets them, he most likely will not directly launch an attack against the US (pure stupidity.. the gates of hell would be unleashed upon him). He might, however, sell the weapons to a terrorist organization who will, or launch an attack on Isreal.

If Isreal is attacked... Ragnarok ahoy. A full scale war in the Middle East would be catastrophic. Not only would a HUGE precentage of the world's oil be in danger, but much else is at stake too.

It's hard to say though.. does it make sense that the country with the largest supply of weapons of mass destruction is going after a country with few, or possibly even no weapons of mass destruction?

It's all one big mess. You can't tell from one way or another what this war is about.

It's easy to place the purpose of the war on oil. It just isn't though. The United States has a large amount of oil wells that haven't even been tapped as well as a large supply of oil in reserve.

Not to mention that if we truly wanted the oil we would let Saddam pump it. Right now he is restricted, seeing as how his profits may be put towards some sort of weapons program. If he has a larger supply of oil, he can price his lower then OPEC's. With that, comes a price war between Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Saudi Arabia lowers their prices... Iraq lowers theirs.. and so on. This would leave the US victorious, seeing as how we would have a larger supply of oil at a lower price, without a single shot fired. The problem is.. we have no idea what we are funding when we buy this oil, or the capabilities it has, or if it is just the opposite.

Just my two cents.. personally I think none of it makes sense. :\

[quote=Gerard]

Originally Posted by "CSF_Jaizen":b8c52

considering they have 4th largest army in the world, id say they would have more than a chance. and since they are allied with china, THE largest army in the world.. if they got help from china it would be an easy task.

Are you referring to them blowing away america? Id doubt it, most likely the un would come to the rescue of america if theose type of odds were stacked against them. 2 countries vs virtually the rest of the world? I think not.[/quote:b8c52]

Russia for one would not want to see a war between the US and China, one reason is that there's a large area of virtually udefended land called Siberia, since the Chinese overfarmed their own land, Russia does not want a strong China (since Siberia would be next on the menu)
And the Russians still have enough nukes left to make PRC hurt

[Bazooka_Joe]

Too bad I'm not president. I would nuke em all. Kids, women, all.

Perhaps if Saddam was successfully removed from power and is trapped in Baghdad surrounded by US forces.

1) Saddam is a madman, a fucking psycho, he will be bound to be trigger happy and use his chemical weapons on anyone, even his own people if he ever gets surrounded. They wil be high casualities for both the US and normal civilians.

2)If Saddam is removed there could possibly be a power vacuam in Iraq and instability. Those Chemical weapons can get into the hands of renegade generals who would sell them to terrorist or simply just give them away for free. Either way the selling and the arming of terrorist with weapons of mass destruction cannot be prevented, they are too well hidden and Iraq is just so darn big.

3)Saddam may be a madman but he aint no fool. As soon as he realizes he wil lose those weapons of mass destruction will be quickly given away most likely or used. Also the fact that he will burn every single gallon of oil in Iraq.

4)More recruits for Al Queda and the birth of more terrorist cells with huge support from the population of the Middle-East.