[Crow King]

This is a great game, and shooters aren't really known for great AI.....but.....

1. Spawning. Has anyone else noticed that MoHAA uses endless spawning? For example, at the end of level 4 (when you're running for the French gal's truck on the other side of the bridge), there are some dog / man teams that keep spawning endlessly behind you? And in the very first level, the guys on the roof at the ambush will keep spawning until you enter the house to get on the MG42. This is pretty old school AI.

2. ESP. I've had guys shooting at me when they can't see me from the room they're in. After I go in and kill them, I'll see the bullet marks on the wall where they were unloading at me when it was impossible for them to see, hear or hit me. On the couple of occasions when this has been combined with clipping problems (ie. they can shoot through the walls), it's been a little frustrating.

3. Difficulty / Marksmanship: At the medium and hardest levels, these guys are crack shots. Why not reduce the hits I can take (more realistic) rather than make rank and file soldeiers Distinguished High Masters (less realistic)? I just don't get it.

With that said, still a damn fine game. Now if I could only go prone to shoot my sniper rifle...ahhhhhh, sniper rifle.

Speaking of Homer, that's the approach you need to take with this game's AI: "Be quiet, Brain, or I'll stab you with a Q tip."

Crow King

[mbwun]

I agree with your AI comments. Coupled with the fact that there are many areas where you have absolutely no choice but to take their hits, it gets pretty frustrating.

I hate overusing quicksave, but its impossible to complete a level without it. You get down to about 20% health, and the enemy AI just turns around and head-shoots you every time. It becomes: move a bit, hit F5, move a bit, hit F5, move a bit, die, view some stupid statistics screen, click-click-click-click-click on the mouse to get going again already!

Oh yeah, just had to add this... What's with the stupid grenades? The AI sense them the instant you toss one and clear out of the way. You can't even cook off a few seconds of the fuse before you throw. Makes for a very unsatisfying grenade tossing

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[sgt.sayian]

critics.....

[Hannover]

The friendly ai is awful. Ghost Recon does this much better.

Hannover

too bad Ghost Recon and all these other "better" games are not WWII games. I might play them then.

I find that the enemy only knows Im coming SOMETIMES. Like in Mission One, when entering the building to resuce the OSS man, if I am firing my weapon after I enter the building then the officer and his two soldiers are waiting for me in the room below the OSS guy's cell with their weapons drawn. If I enter the building and do not fire my weapon they are still sitting in their chairs and I surprise them.

I wish there was MORE of that. I find it a bit hokey that I can be crunching around the snow, shooting sentries and yet there are other sentries just walking around, right past dead bodies, and don't happen to hear all that shooting. Why bother with the silencer pistol when they don't even hear your sniper rifle or MP40 going off. It would be much harder of course, if everyone went on alert the moment you started shooting. But it would also be realistic.

[Fett_72]

Hehe a bitching thread, I love the game but I'll add here.

The original post was absolutely true. I hate the spawning, it takes the concept of clearing an area out of commission, and since I'm used to that it makes tactics really hard in this game. I think that a hint to dealing with that is that I suspect they made spawning to this degree to encourage moving up rather than staying (I don't know why they would've done this, but whatever). If you charge an enemy fortification, the spawning'll stop, at least I find. The worst part is when someone comes from behind you though.

Guys having supreme accuracy is annoying too, I'm on mission 5 right now and it's incredibly slow going when the snipers don't miss a single shot. It's literally impossible to rush an MG-42 as well, they never miss. That simple.

Lastly, guys knowing where you are is real annoying, I'll clear an area only to hear an alarm being set off somewhere ahead. You could argue that they heard my fire: but then why didn't the entire base come to kill me? The worst example of this were the few times in Mission 4 where a guy would actually shoot at me before I entered a new room and he was inside. Outside when this happens is annoying but x-ray vision inside a house is very annoying.

I dunno about the grenade thing though, I'm quite happy about the AI's reaction to nades. Think about it, when a guy chucks one at me I hear him pulling the pin so I run like hell, why shouldn't they?

In reminder, it's a GREAT fps and game in general.

[Zalastil]

The only problem I have with the game is that i think its really gay that even on easy, in the later levels you have to shoot enemies more than twice. NPCs should not be able to take 3 hits to the torso and still fight.

2nd. Instead of increasing enemy hps on Hard, decrease player hp and make enemies more accurate. Enemies shouldn't be able to take 3+ kill shots and stay standing

I'd like to see a mod that decreases everyones hp.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The only problem I have with the game is that i think its really gay that even on easy, in the later levels you have to shoot enemies more than twice. NPCs should not be able to take 3 hits to the torso and still fight.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can take more than 3 hits to the torso and live. So why cant they?

excelsior

[Machine_Gunner]

it is because you did not put your settings on hard.

[TheGreatHio]

"Its litteraly impossible to rush an MG42... they never miss."


Ok, YOU go try and rush an MG42 emplacment and see how many times they "miss" you.

[pike]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mbwun:
It becomes: move a bit, hit F5, move a bit, hit F5, move a bit, die, view some stupid statistics screen, click-click-click-click-click on the mouse to get going again already!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Actually, there's no need for the "click-click-click-click." Just hit F9 the second you die. Voila. Quick-load just as fast as you saved.

Anyhow, on the topic of spawning...I don't mind it at all. in fact, I prefer it, as long as the enemy spawns from far enough away (and MOH seems pretty good about that).

Why? Well, think about it. In most of these levels you are taking on legions of Nazis. There should be an alarming feed of personnel constantly breathing on your back, especially when you stop to take a rest. That's how it would be if you were really Lt. Powell.

Of course, I'm a bit of a realism nut. I actually enjoy playing with only +10 health. Makes it more real. Of course, it sucks when these bastards take three or four bursts from a MP40 before going down. Hrmm. Perhaps I'll mod that out.

[Lemming]

As with anything, there are always problems. But the AI in this game is perhaps the best to date. When you critiqu AI, what are you measuring them against? Q3 bots? UT bots? Deathmatch games like that and others do not require such intense AI coding as do games like this one. The AI is exceptional.

-Lemming

[Mosquito]

I find the AI better than most, but it does have problems. Like in North Africa when you go to blow the last 2 Tigers. There is a mechanic? standing beside one of the tigers. You don't even have to shoot him. A massive gun battle blazing around him, and he just stands there. The men manning the search lights also never seem to notice the bodies and explosions occuring around them. Blow up the fuel cans at one point, and both search lights continue circling without changing their pace, or search pattern. It makes them very east to take out. They only see you when they catch you in their beam. Aim behind the light, and let a couple go, no more sentries. Take out the lights first though, and suddenly these guys have night vision, and will hail massive machine gun fire on you the second you show a hair.

It is a great game though, it's tough to stop playing, and that's the sign of a good game. Just think, if 2015 reworks the AI, and improves it, it could make the game completely replayable. You wouldn't be able to use the same tactics to get through a level.

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Remember Dieppe

As one person said, the enemy AI in this game only really has itself to be compared against, because in other FPS’er (Quake, RED FACTION…lol…god that game sucks), you deal with enemy AI that thinks it’s as gung-ho RAMBO as YOU are. However, for 2015’s first attempt at this type of game-play, I think they have hit a homer. The examples you cite, I can find justification in ONE of them, barely. I have never had a persons shoot at me through a wall, however they ARE aware of my presence when I enter a room. But, wouldn’t it seem a bit unrealistic if an AI needed to have you in the “room”, to be aware of all the gunfire and gunplay going on around him? As far as the first level is concerned, I think that’s the point – for them to CONTINUE to respawn, until you’ve hit the point in the script, that calls for them to stop. You’ll notice that they do stop as soon as the soldier tells you, you are covered. The marksmanship of the shooters is also a bit frustrating, only in that theyy have moves to use, that we do not. That is one of the things I can agree on – since everyone from a grunt to a scientist seems to have “crack-shot” medals in weapon use. Other than that – I think this game more than blows out of the water any other attempts at its AI.

excelsior

[tom_bz]

I think the AI is pretty good. I love when they shoot around corners and above tables. I have seen worse AI. So I don't mind the few bad AI problems.

[This message has been edited by tom_bz (edited January 28, 2002).]