[jujumantb]

If mobile phones count for anything biggrin:
http://www.aneki.com/phones.html

We can safely assume from this that socialist influences have done well for scandanavian countries, or else they just really like cell phones.

BTW just incase you wanted to see a source, there are more too.
http://www.aneki.com/best.html

[Short Hand]

[quote="Garry Coleman":12912]jujuman, you are an asshat. STFU and leave this thread. You've been put down by TGB and face it, he beat you with facts.




PS Clinton can suck my left testicle.[/quote:12912]

notb really.

[TGB!]

My bottom line is this. The sugar plum fairy image of everyone-equal despite your talent, is a nice thought, but flawed. America has problems yes, but innovation and progress are products of our system, not stagnation. I provided facts (links available upon request or you can just google - but it should be common sense), that says versus a Socialist government with a higher HDI, the unemployment rate of the United States is only 1.5% higher. 1.5! Shouldnt that number be significantly higher if Democratic Socialism is so much better than capatalism?

I work my ass off, and yanno what I dont mind doing it. Why? Because I'm proud of the work I do, and proud that I'm BETTER than the guy next to me. In your world, I bust my ass to cover the shortcomings of someone else, yet we still reap the same rewards. No thanks. CEO's and executives make more because for whatever reason they earned their spots. Is there rampant nepotism and favortism in this country. Hell yea. But there are also incredible success stories that would not be possible without capatalism.

[Short Hand]

People think equality is to hard to acheive. Truth is its only as hard as your mind makes it to be.

[Short Hand]

[quote="TGB!":6cc90]My bottom line is this. The sugar plum fairy image of everyone-equal despite your talent, is a nice thought, but flawed. America has problems yes, but innovation and progress are products of our system, not stagnation. I provided facts (links available upon request or you can just google - but it should be common sense), that says versus a Socialist government with a higher HDI, the unemployment rate of the United States is only 1.5% higher. 1.5! Shouldnt that number be significantly higher if Democratic Socialism is so much better than capatalism?

I work my ass off, and yanno what I dont mind doing it. Why? Because I'm proud of the work I do, and proud that I'm BETTER than the guy next to me. In your world, I bust my ass to cover the shortcomings of someone else, yet we still reap the same rewards. No thanks. CEO's and executives make more because for whatever reason they earned their spots. Is there rampant nepotism and favortism in this country. Hell yea. But there are also incredible success stories that would not be possible without capatalism. [/quote:6cc90]

SO would you say the Hilton Sisters earned their money ?

[TGB!]

No. Her Grandfather (or great-grandfather) however did. What, you have millions and you're gonna make YOUR children work at McDonalds?

[jujumantb]

[quote="TGB!":c253c]My bottom line is this. The sugar plum fairy image of everyone-equal despite your talent, is a nice thought, but flawed. America has problems yes, but innovation and progress are products of our system, not stagnation. I provided facts (links available upon request or you can just google - but it should be common sense), that says versus a Socialist government with a higher HDI, the unemployment rate of the United States is only 1.5% higher. 1.5! Shouldnt that number be significantly higher if Democratic Socialism is so much better than capatalism?

I work my ass off, and yanno what I dont mind doing it. Why? Because I'm proud of the work I do, and proud that I'm BETTER than the guy next to me. In your world, I bust my ass to cover the shortcomings of someone else, yet we still reap the same rewards. No thanks. CEO's and executives make more because for whatever reason they earned their spots. Is there rampant nepotism and favortism in this country. Hell yea. But there are also incredible success stories that would not be possible without capatalism. [/quote:c253c]
First off, good post, I'll give it to ya, well written.
Most of the facts you quoted were beside the point. Especially the unemployment rates which mean nothing to my side of it. Unemployment is part of any economy with competition for jobs. You seem to be neglecting the fact that those countries have this too! Not much different than the US and thus, they have unemployment. The rear beautiful part comes in with what happens to those unemployed people. They are helped. Not just thrown money to get by, but re-educated and brought back into society. I hope you understand now that those unemployement facts mean little. Other than that, the rest of your post is strsight up you opinion and is a pretty solid one. I agree you shouldnt have to bust your ass to make up for someone else, but when everyone can work together, there is little to none of what you described. Granted, that is not easy to reach, but that is a goal of socialism. It has its downfalls as you mentioned just like we have, but if pulled off, it can be a great system.

[ninty]

I enjoy politics.

[Short Hand]

[quote="TGB!":2d00a]No. Her Grandfather (or great-grandfather) however did. What, you have millions and you're gonna make YOUR children work at McDonalds?[/quote:2d00a]

Now do you see the flaw in capitilism ? what happens when we have huge amounts ofp eople like them inheriting riches for which they do not deserve ? Ill tell you this they act a bit then run to be a politic for your state. It a joke, the strong get stronger while the weak get weaker.

[jujumantb]

[quote="TGB!":1f4a3]No. Her Grandfather (or great-grandfather) however did. What, you have millions and you're gonna make YOUR children work at McDonalds?[/quote:1f4a3]
Hell no! Is that fair though? Then there is the opposite of the spectrum where some people have NO chance to make it. Norway (sorry to keep using them as an example but they illustrate the system I condone very well), have 100% literacy over the age of 15. They all get the same education, granted it is easier with a smaller population but there is no reason it cant be done with a large one aswell. Where as the US collects taxes from the wealth passed on and invades Iraq with it jk

[intrestedviewer]

Communism doesnt work, you will always want what others have, like your friends girl biggrin: There will always be differences because everyone is not the same, we all are individuals. Its like those stupid people that cant art, they think that if they take a class they will be l337, but everyone knows you either have it or you don't.

[jujumantb]

Originally Posted by intrestedviewer

Communism doesnt work, you will always want what others have, like your friends girl biggrin: There will always be differences because everyone is not the same, we all are individuals. Its like those stupid people that cant art, they think that if they take a class they will be l337, but everyone knows you either have it or you don't.

thats what sociallism(communism) attempts to solve. If everyone is equal, there should be no envy like that, though we know that for an economy to work, people need a reason to work hard, this is human nature which marx and engles didnt understand. This is why a hybrid socialist state works the best, the benefits of socialism with a strong economy due to competition,
also communism has never been tested so who knows if it could really work

[TGB!]

[quote:9db52]They are helped. Not just thrown money to get by, but re-educated and brought back into society. I hope you understand now that those unemployement facts mean little.[/quote:9db52]

Methinks you need to take a wider look at the American Social Programs available. The Workforce Investment Act is just one program off the top of my head. And since I yanno work for a program that deals with re-educated the laid off workforce, I kinda know that your above statement is a crock. Unemployment is a direct reflection of government structure. The only communist government that works is China (which is a prime example of the slave state). You dismiss my argument because it satisfies yours. I accept your arguments and apply counters. The true definition of debate.

[Short Hand]

[quote="TGB!":fa919][quote:fa919]They are helped. Not just thrown money to get by, but re-educated and brought back into society. I hope you understand now that those unemployement facts mean little.[/quote:fa919]

Methinks you need to take a wider look at the American Social Programs available. The Workforce Investment Act is just one program off the top of my head. And since I yanno work for a program that deals with re-educated the laid off workforce, I kinda know that your above statement is a crock. Unemployment is a direct reflection of government structure. The only communist government that works is China (which is a prime example of the slave state). You dismiss my argument because it satisfies yours. I accept your arguments and apply counters. The true definition of debate.[/quote:fa919]

Definitionof someone who thinks they are all that.

[Pyro]

Originally Posted by ninty9

I enjoy politics.

too bad ontario and quebec own the country politically..